Sativied's Picture Journal
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
I took most of 'm down yesterday, 2 still standing but that's just cause I got bored trimming them. As I mentioned earlier someone from the energy co will visit me soon, and I want to have it jarred before then, so decide to trim them, but leaves all the buds on the plant (so it doesn't dry out too fast). Considering the yellow harvest I'm not too worried about it turning into hay.
It's not going to be a record harvest (wasn't the goal either, just a quick whorler run), partly because I removed plants during flowering and no canopy control, but considering the carelessness this run, I got no complaints (except for the lack of smell in the seemingly ICE phenos).
All roughly same height. No definite difference between regulars and tri-whorled, I think that would require an outdoor grow to really test (need large plants and many of them to test and really see the difference).
Table top mountain spiral:
The hazy from another mother, easy trimming, one massive block of mj, with some foxtails that are dry first and make great tasters
Closest to what I expected from CHxCH but has regular phyllotaxy up to about half way that main cola and nothing the P cross already has.
This is the compact pheno in CH, good yielder but not what I was looking for.
Fattest tri (the most purple too, hard to see after trimming since it's 99.99% leaves only that got purple)
Will take some pics of the rest when they all hang. Glad this run is over...
Next: soil run with Canna Terra Vega and Flores (amongst the cheap nutes at growshops here). Again not a real test or comparison, just for fun. The two bottles cost me a little over $20, which is roughly what I spent on a round of hydro too.
It's not going to be a record harvest (wasn't the goal either, just a quick whorler run), partly because I removed plants during flowering and no canopy control, but considering the carelessness this run, I got no complaints (except for the lack of smell in the seemingly ICE phenos).
All roughly same height. No definite difference between regulars and tri-whorled, I think that would require an outdoor grow to really test (need large plants and many of them to test and really see the difference).
Table top mountain spiral:
The hazy from another mother, easy trimming, one massive block of mj, with some foxtails that are dry first and make great tasters
Closest to what I expected from CHxCH but has regular phyllotaxy up to about half way that main cola and nothing the P cross already has.
This is the compact pheno in CH, good yielder but not what I was looking for.
Fattest tri (the most purple too, hard to see after trimming since it's 99.99% leaves only that got purple)
Will take some pics of the rest when they all hang. Glad this run is over...
Next: soil run with Canna Terra Vega and Flores (amongst the cheap nutes at growshops here). Again not a real test or comparison, just for fun. The two bottles cost me a little over $20, which is roughly what I spent on a round of hydro too.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Those beans would be DNA Genetics' Cannalope Haze, not my cross, just a newer generation with no new traits that make it something else. Or worse, the beans on that compact pheno are from males that could be that ICE pheno too, whose genes I really don't want to spread. Above all, I can't know nor predict the outcome of those seeds which is the opposite of my goal. I think I need 3-7 or more cycles before I got something that is not a pheno-hunt pack of seeds but a strain. If it takes longer I'm starting over 
You're right though, that plant is a good cashcropper while it does barely take 8 weeks 12/12 to finish. It would be easy to find a keeper in the CHxCH to clone, just not suitable for finishing my P cross.
You're right though, that plant is a good cashcropper while it does barely take 8 weeks 12/12 to finish. It would be easy to find a keeper in the CHxCH to clone, just not suitable for finishing my P cross.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
I just hope they will eventually live up to any expectations. I think it's doable to create a closet-IBL using careful selection, luck, and most of all time. I hope the F3 will be narrowed down enough that I at least reached a point where I can select multiple plants that I think will help reach the goal.
F1 was simply to mix the chunk genes with the CH genes, this is the "create/generate variety" step, the first step of breeding a new variety through crossbreeding.
F2 was a pheno hunt round. F2 is where gene pairs from the F1's parents recombine, which in practice means you get some traits of which the genotype is from 1 of those original parents. For example the short flowering, short structure from CH and the taste and vigor from the chunk and not just the result of mixed gene pairs like in F1.
With a complete gene map, more insight in the DNA (something common for other species but not as much for the largely illegal cannabis) and a large enough plant count, I could select two of the F2 and create a super stable F3. (as I layed out here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/when-is-it-considered-a-new-strain.842812/#post-10907966 )
That's obviously not the case, so I need to guesstimate it instead, tracking inheritance, guestimating dominance and genotypes. The more plants you got the more obvious it all becomes, but that can be partly solved by simply doing more runs, possibly, if needed, of the same generation (especially if you cross two very different strains which isn't actually the case here).
Point is, I kinda just got started with the essential breeding part and a lot depends on how the F3 turns out.
So far, I really like what I see though.
Those who followed the previous round from the start probably remember that dark green P-F3 I popped for fun amongst the CHxCH, this one:
I still got it, topped it a few times, barely gave it any attention, it's in the corner in one of my veg boxes and not under the T8s... and it's well, pics:
Some of the topped parts I put in a glass of tapwater about 10 days ago, behind a window, in daylight.
Still lovely green, and...
I kept it in case it was a fluke (the vigor not the rooting in glass..), it's flowering already cause it's been in daylight.
The F3 plants. 4 in the center in the top row are from P-F2-4 (was in hempy, sweet skunky), most of the rest is offspring from the swan. They took a 3 feet fall shortly before the picture, drop test passed
It's obviously way too soon too tell, but the offspring from the swan look very much alike. Any difference in branching / apical dominance could be solely due to difference between male and females. It'll be interesting to see if they end up with sativa dom leaves like the swan.
Some more from the swan, from nr4, and nr 19. Nr 19 was the most frosty, fastest flowering, and hardest nugs. Apart from that it wasn't what I was going for (it has even less of the haze/sativa genes) but I want to see how the male influenced that so popped some of those too. They are a node or two behind cause I popped them a few days later.
Another one I still got is the swan (P-F2-#22) (just in pic above on the left), so I got the option to do a backcross to that one. Actually, good chance I will do that on the side. If all else fails, I would still have a backcross of the swan.
This is the most unlike all others, from #4 (just a little more slender leaves), looks great though and I hope it will soon look more like the others else I'm going to have to kill it.
F1 was simply to mix the chunk genes with the CH genes, this is the "create/generate variety" step, the first step of breeding a new variety through crossbreeding.
F2 was a pheno hunt round. F2 is where gene pairs from the F1's parents recombine, which in practice means you get some traits of which the genotype is from 1 of those original parents. For example the short flowering, short structure from CH and the taste and vigor from the chunk and not just the result of mixed gene pairs like in F1.
With a complete gene map, more insight in the DNA (something common for other species but not as much for the largely illegal cannabis) and a large enough plant count, I could select two of the F2 and create a super stable F3. (as I layed out here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/when-is-it-considered-a-new-strain.842812/#post-10907966 )
That's obviously not the case, so I need to guesstimate it instead, tracking inheritance, guestimating dominance and genotypes. The more plants you got the more obvious it all becomes, but that can be partly solved by simply doing more runs, possibly, if needed, of the same generation (especially if you cross two very different strains which isn't actually the case here).
Point is, I kinda just got started with the essential breeding part and a lot depends on how the F3 turns out.
So far, I really like what I see though.
Those who followed the previous round from the start probably remember that dark green P-F3 I popped for fun amongst the CHxCH, this one:
I still got it, topped it a few times, barely gave it any attention, it's in the corner in one of my veg boxes and not under the T8s... and it's well, pics:
Some of the topped parts I put in a glass of tapwater about 10 days ago, behind a window, in daylight.
Still lovely green, and...
I kept it in case it was a fluke (the vigor not the rooting in glass..), it's flowering already cause it's been in daylight.
The F3 plants. 4 in the center in the top row are from P-F2-4 (was in hempy, sweet skunky), most of the rest is offspring from the swan. They took a 3 feet fall shortly before the picture, drop test passed
It's obviously way too soon too tell, but the offspring from the swan look very much alike. Any difference in branching / apical dominance could be solely due to difference between male and females. It'll be interesting to see if they end up with sativa dom leaves like the swan.
Some more from the swan, from nr4, and nr 19. Nr 19 was the most frosty, fastest flowering, and hardest nugs. Apart from that it wasn't what I was going for (it has even less of the haze/sativa genes) but I want to see how the male influenced that so popped some of those too. They are a node or two behind cause I popped them a few days later.
Another one I still got is the swan (P-F2-#22) (just in pic above on the left), so I got the option to do a backcross to that one. Actually, good chance I will do that on the side. If all else fails, I would still have a backcross of the swan.
This is the most unlike all others, from #4 (just a little more slender leaves), looks great though and I hope it will soon look more like the others else I'm going to have to kill it.
ayr0n
Well-Known Member
Oh come on, there's no room for integrity in breeding. Gotta just rename it and sell it as your ownThose beans would be DNA Genetics' Cannalope Haze, not my cross, just a newer generation with no new traits that make it something else. Or worse, the beans on that compact pheno are from males that could be that ICE pheno too, whose genes I really don't want to spread. Above all, I can't know nor predict the outcome of those seeds which is the opposite of my goal. I think I need 3-7 or more cycles before I got something that is not a pheno-hunt pack of seeds but a strain. If it takes longer I'm starting over
You're right though, that plant is a good cashcropper while it does barely take 8 weeks 12/12 to finish. It would be easy to find a keeper in the CHxCH to clone, just not suitable for finishing my P cross.
Isn't that what they do these days?
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Oh don't get me started manOh come on, there's no room for integrity in breeding. Gotta just rename it and sell it as your own
The CH is according to some not even CH and just a C99 knockoff so it would probably be fair to buy all popular beans and get popular clones, pollinate all those with the best male I can find, and start The Green Rush Company or Greenrush Seeds.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
"Virgin Peat Substrate" "Soilless Substrate horticulture".
Is what it says on my bag of "soil". The "soil" I used 8 years ago already (Goldlabel special mix light) and is the most common used for "soil" grows (pretty much every growshop has goldlabel, not available at regular gardening center, no bugs, little bit organic nutes), both organic and mineral nutes grows. 1gram can hold 10 gram of water.
Last round I used over 50% wormshit (and some regular potting soil as well) and was worried it would compact too much but I'll probably need to water even more often this round. I'm probably going to get a blumat set once I reduced the plant count to 12 and use the 2.7gallon pots again. Currently in 1 gallon pots (some pics below are from before potting up).
Anyway, it's peat, clay, perlite, lime and coco (and trace elements and organic nutes for first couple of weeks).
F3-Swan (as in offspring from the Swan in F2, P-F2-#22)
Size difference because I didn't pop them all at the same time, couple in smaller cups still. The larger ones in the center, with the stretched leaf stems are a little larger, probably male, but stretched from not being directly below the T8 bulbs. "Swan" because she started with ugly broad but short indica leaves (like bottom left one, almost duckfoot-like) but turned into rather slender sativa looking flaps.
I'm going to top them all this time, but with the swan that was almost required. Stretched initially but was more tall than stretch, as in still close internodes and long colas. Might do some LST to keep them as low as the rest. The dad of these was the shortest and most bushy male.
Following is F3-19 (offspring from P-F2-#19, skunky but was fastest and frostiest and rockhard nuggets so they get to play too)
Same thing as with the others, the ones with most stretched leaf stems (two on the left) had the lesser spots under the T8.
Following is F3-4 (offspring from P-F2-#4, one in small hempy bottles I barely showed in F2 run, its offspring gets to play because the buds was exceptional sweet, very much like what I hoped the chunk would be initially but wasn't).
I wasn't sure if that dark green male I kept (clones have actual roots by now in the glass of water) was from 4 or 19, but it's obvious now. Nr4's offspring has that dark green color, almost blue hue sometimes. May be just a coincidence but the roots seem thicker and just better than the rest.
Happy so far. Still getting just tap water. Moving to 400watt hps today, adjust for a few days, top (4 colas each), veg a little (week maybe), then switch to 12/12.
Is what it says on my bag of "soil". The "soil" I used 8 years ago already (Goldlabel special mix light) and is the most common used for "soil" grows (pretty much every growshop has goldlabel, not available at regular gardening center, no bugs, little bit organic nutes), both organic and mineral nutes grows. 1gram can hold 10 gram of water.
Last round I used over 50% wormshit (and some regular potting soil as well) and was worried it would compact too much but I'll probably need to water even more often this round. I'm probably going to get a blumat set once I reduced the plant count to 12 and use the 2.7gallon pots again. Currently in 1 gallon pots (some pics below are from before potting up).
Anyway, it's peat, clay, perlite, lime and coco (and trace elements and organic nutes for first couple of weeks).
F3-Swan (as in offspring from the Swan in F2, P-F2-#22)
Size difference because I didn't pop them all at the same time, couple in smaller cups still. The larger ones in the center, with the stretched leaf stems are a little larger, probably male, but stretched from not being directly below the T8 bulbs. "Swan" because she started with ugly broad but short indica leaves (like bottom left one, almost duckfoot-like) but turned into rather slender sativa looking flaps.
I'm going to top them all this time, but with the swan that was almost required. Stretched initially but was more tall than stretch, as in still close internodes and long colas. Might do some LST to keep them as low as the rest. The dad of these was the shortest and most bushy male.
Following is F3-19 (offspring from P-F2-#19, skunky but was fastest and frostiest and rockhard nuggets so they get to play too)
Same thing as with the others, the ones with most stretched leaf stems (two on the left) had the lesser spots under the T8.
Following is F3-4 (offspring from P-F2-#4, one in small hempy bottles I barely showed in F2 run, its offspring gets to play because the buds was exceptional sweet, very much like what I hoped the chunk would be initially but wasn't).
I wasn't sure if that dark green male I kept (clones have actual roots by now in the glass of water) was from 4 or 19, but it's obvious now. Nr4's offspring has that dark green color, almost blue hue sometimes. May be just a coincidence but the roots seem thicker and just better than the rest.
Happy so far. Still getting just tap water. Moving to 400watt hps today, adjust for a few days, top (4 colas each), veg a little (week maybe), then switch to 12/12.
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
Great thread Sativied. I never think to wander over to the grow journal section. Some nice work up in here
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Some harvest pics from previous round.
Let it dry more than usual before jarring, yet smokes very smooth. No hay smell even from the ICE cross suspects, but no surprise with that little amount of green left.
I haven't actually weighted everything, besides that it wasn't about yield, I honestly don't care as long as I can fill my jars.... I do however have a good idea of how much I can fit in my jar collection, and I had to grab a few small ones extra...
The one in the center front is from the fastest tri, have been smoking that for a while now and tastes 10 times better than it smells (easy though cause it smells very little). I was worried I'd end up buying from coffeeshops when the CHxCH plants/phenos ran out but it'll do just fine. It's has a sort of minty cigar effect, taste on tongue and lips while the smoke is blend. Although I largely smoke the CH first... I tend to smoke the tastiest stuff first. The CH is again pungent, almost too, but also very strong again, makes my eyes feel like they are crossed. Seemingly absolutely zero difference with hydro grown (wasn't a test...).
Anyway, apart from that, one of the colas didn't look all too fresh after drying, I think it just started to rot around harvest time (it's why I avoid growing thick colas).
And... I had two of these seeded buds on most plants:
And went from 36 to 16 during veg and transition and 14 to 9 during flowering (and back to 10 later on, the one with the bend/cropped stem in the hanging plants pic above) and still - with no canopy control - got about a pound, which considering the one I moved back is roughly 1.6 oz per plant (in my hydro setup it's nearly double that but 6 plants). That is including all the small bud (yet large enough to trim and still got something left), in the baggies but doesn't make up much of the weight at all, will be gone in a week.
I frankly find that amazing. Not to pet myself on the back, but considering the non-optimal temps, the poor watering and nutrient regime, the premature yellowing, and how lazy/careless I've been this round it's amazing the plant still produces like that and for me shows again (wasn't a test...) that many problems people experience are not from not doing something but from doing too much.
Let it dry more than usual before jarring, yet smokes very smooth. No hay smell even from the ICE cross suspects, but no surprise with that little amount of green left.
I haven't actually weighted everything, besides that it wasn't about yield, I honestly don't care as long as I can fill my jars.... I do however have a good idea of how much I can fit in my jar collection, and I had to grab a few small ones extra...
The one in the center front is from the fastest tri, have been smoking that for a while now and tastes 10 times better than it smells (easy though cause it smells very little). I was worried I'd end up buying from coffeeshops when the CHxCH plants/phenos ran out but it'll do just fine. It's has a sort of minty cigar effect, taste on tongue and lips while the smoke is blend. Although I largely smoke the CH first... I tend to smoke the tastiest stuff first. The CH is again pungent, almost too, but also very strong again, makes my eyes feel like they are crossed. Seemingly absolutely zero difference with hydro grown (wasn't a test...).
Anyway, apart from that, one of the colas didn't look all too fresh after drying, I think it just started to rot around harvest time (it's why I avoid growing thick colas).
And... I had two of these seeded buds on most plants:
And went from 36 to 16 during veg and transition and 14 to 9 during flowering (and back to 10 later on, the one with the bend/cropped stem in the hanging plants pic above) and still - with no canopy control - got about a pound, which considering the one I moved back is roughly 1.6 oz per plant (in my hydro setup it's nearly double that but 6 plants). That is including all the small bud (yet large enough to trim and still got something left), in the baggies but doesn't make up much of the weight at all, will be gone in a week.
I frankly find that amazing. Not to pet myself on the back, but considering the non-optimal temps, the poor watering and nutrient regime, the premature yellowing, and how lazy/careless I've been this round it's amazing the plant still produces like that and for me shows again (wasn't a test...) that many problems people experience are not from not doing something but from doing too much.
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
If I was a plant intent on pollinating all those females, right in the center is where I'd want to be...
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Topped most of the plants yesterday.
Nice added advantage from topping is that they are all at a similar size again despite not planting all the seeds on the same day. Will probably tie a few branches down and help them get the desired structure. Removing the tops also removes some leaves, in turn reducing transpiration, meaning I can still easily keep up with watering in the 1gallon pots they are in now.
Tap water is 200ppm, 7.6ph currently, I use nitric acid to bring that down to 6.0-6.5 (though I don't bother with ph the first couple of weeks). Gave them 200ppm (on top of tap) of Canna Terra Vega twice over the past week including today, that's about a quarter of recommended doses. Not that the plants really need it yet but don't want to flush out the soil entirely either.
Nice added advantage from topping is that they are all at a similar size again despite not planting all the seeds on the same day. Will probably tie a few branches down and help them get the desired structure. Removing the tops also removes some leaves, in turn reducing transpiration, meaning I can still easily keep up with watering in the 1gallon pots they are in now.
Tap water is 200ppm, 7.6ph currently, I use nitric acid to bring that down to 6.0-6.5 (though I don't bother with ph the first couple of weeks). Gave them 200ppm (on top of tap) of Canna Terra Vega twice over the past week including today, that's about a quarter of recommended doses. Not that the plants really need it yet but don't want to flush out the soil entirely either.
OLD MOTHER SATIVA
Well-Known Member
your sewer pipe tubes are awesome
as are the quality of your photo's
i have tried to fall in love with sativa hybrids
i quit..
for depression/ptsd relief
i can only be satisfied smoking a sativa
and not saying i do not like indica's
they have their place
all the best
as are the quality of your photo's
i have tried to fall in love with sativa hybrids
i quit..
for depression/ptsd relief
i can only be satisfied smoking a sativa
and not saying i do not like indica's
they have their place
all the best
Sativied
Well-Known Member
I can't quite capture it on photo yet, will try one in day light when I get the chance, but just opened the closet and they sure look good so far.
As usual when I take photos in the dark with flash in closet it exaggerates the lighter parts that doesn't have enough chlorophyll yet,
Should be fun to see what it morphs into... swan's offspring. Pretty sure it will start growing slender sativa-like leaves during transition.
By itself little variation within the 3 lines (3 different moms) so far but also not a whole lot between the lines apart from the expected (4&19 offspring are more skunky than the swan sativa). Variation in branching so far could be entirely difference between male/female and the slight age difference and topping location and day (still 4 or 5 to top).
As usual when I take photos in the dark with flash in closet it exaggerates the lighter parts that doesn't have enough chlorophyll yet,
Should be fun to see what it morphs into... swan's offspring. Pretty sure it will start growing slender sativa-like leaves during transition.
By itself little variation within the 3 lines (3 different moms) so far but also not a whole lot between the lines apart from the expected (4&19 offspring are more skunky than the swan sativa). Variation in branching so far could be entirely difference between male/female and the slight age difference and topping location and day (still 4 or 5 to top).