Ruwtz Maneuver Vol 1

ruwtz · Dec 6, 2016

ttystikk said:
Try it both ways and see which works better for you. I sure didn't see anything going wrong in your setup.

Yeah, wrong wouldn't be the right word. I just think I could improve it, both in terms of optimized growth and automation.

Timing every stage would help greatly so that they are not stuck in cups longer than necessary, but in any case there are other things I don't like about my current setup:

[1] having to top up water level daily
[2] also having to checking and fixing pH and EC
[3] stagnant water exposed to open air is undesirable / contributing to humidity / prone to pathogens
[4] simple garden center trays only fit 12 cups each and are not maximizing light footprint
[5] growth appears slow and spindly, leaf health just average
[6] some leaf mutations noted - three blades, odd branching etc

And as stated previously, moving large roots from cloner into cups is a sideways move, maybe even backwards.

My DIY cloners on the shelf below show excellent speed of growth both for shoots and roots, and everything very healthy. I'm inclined to double capacity by creating a second level of cloners up top and just let them run until they are ready to pot up in veg.

I probably spent around $100 on my pair of bubblers so not a big outlay to do it all again on the top shelf. Also not a rush and will be considering other systems if it fits this space and my needs.

Wisher2 · Dec 6, 2016

well if you are gonna be running coco
I would build a new station for flood and drain for the clones....as in
the clones go from cloner to say 1 gal pots and straight to f&d
that is my opinion
or drip or what ever you feel comfortable with
really it is the timing of everything

if you have mothers you can slow down this process alot
calculate how long it takes in the cloner
and how long you want to veg for and how long your flowers take

and count backwards

that way there arent so many things going crazy at once and nothing gets backed up

if that makes sense

ruwtz · Dec 6, 2016

Wisher2 said:
well if you are gonna be running coco
I would build a new station for flood and drain for the clones....as in
the clones go from cloner to say 1 gal pots and straight to f&d
that is my opinion
or drip or what ever you feel comfortable with
really it is the timing of everything

if you have mothers you can slow down this process alot
calculate how long it takes in the cloner
and how long you want to veg for and how long your flowers take

and count backwards

that way there arent so many things going crazy at once and nothing gets backed up

if that makes sense

Yeah exactly.

ruwtz · Dec 9, 2016

Chopped the Gorilla Glue yesterday. I'm eyeballing under a pound from four plants, and perhaps one other GG on the adjacent table ought to push it over the lb mark.

And if not, all this lower popcorn stuff ought to do it. Leaving it on for 2-3 days to ripen a little more. Keen to get the next lot in as veg is crammed right now.

Took me a couple hours per plant to trim and hang the main buds. Gonna build a rack today for the smaller stuff.

Came across a dozen or so seeds, I expect there's more in the bud. I guess I didn't catch all those pollen sacs after all.

These hollow stems are kinda new to me, and much woodier than anything i've done outdoors; typically it would be pithy inside.

Should I be worried?

Pleased with how the stalk structures finished too, main stems approx 2" diameter and multiple main branches.

In the next runs I gonna be tougher on training to avoid side branches, especially lower down that won't amount to nothing. These sat dom hybrids seem to be really into it.

* * * *

The 24K is looking nice and has come through with some lovely purple shades, as did the GG at the tops but not nearly as pretty.

May chop early next week; keeping an eye on the trichs. I can see these will yield much better per plant, perhaps because I caught zero signs of hermie over here unlike the GG.

* * * *

Black Jack table is interesting, and lots of variety across the six plants. Entering week 8. All healthy, if a little overfed as I play around with blends and EC strength.

Feed is down 20% to 1.4EC as leaves were cooking. Rolled back base feed 25% and doubled MKP as a kind of late flower "shooting powder".

The shortest girl has thick, shiny, dark green foliage but immature flowers / lots of white hairs.

The tallest girl (pic 1 below) has deep purpling to the fans leaves, some are dry and crinkly, and her buds are also under-developed.

The best girl has a mix of both: dense, healthy foliage and buds ripening nicely. Possible early contender for a good pheno, or some other unknown variable in the garden.

Another one has fat buds and top fan leaves that have gone from purple through to almost black.

Check it out:

* * * *

The Larry OG, also kicking off week 8, has pretty even-sized buds across five plants on this table.

Larry's are also on double MKP at 0.2EC for this week only.

Plants appear healthy although I have seen pollen sacs on all but one of them, poss from early life stress. Never a good sign but i'm taking the risk and keeping them all.

Again I've burned them with finding their feed limits (maxed at 1.8EC two weeks ago) and will be keeping this back in next run in favor of heavier waterings. I think thats a smart approach in this 80F room under DE lamps.

Easily my favorite buds in the room: fist-sized balls and very dense. These will yield nicely.

This bud has thrown out bright yellow leaves right on its top, in amongst the curls of white pistils. They are leaves, not nanners, I promise you!

* * * *

This week with colder weather I have been trialling switching AC off completely at lights out (2pm - 2am). The AC keeps lights-off temps a very low at 63-65F whilst humidity is high at 65-75%, despite the dehu running and also AC actually pulling MORE condensate (I know because I reclaim both).

I don't believe i'm using the Quest 105 dehu to its potential, and the only advice from Quest is to heat the room to drop RH. Frustratingly I cannot find any advice from other Quest users anywhere online.

The dehu puts out some heat so with the AC off the room has been up at 86F at night, and humidity down to 60%. Sealed room.

My thinking is that the dehu is now able to do its job better without AC cycling, plant processes are improved in lower humidity, and as a side benefit I get to experiment with a slight negative temp dif which has been proven as effective means for better yields.

Anyone know whats going on here?? I am not interested in manually adjusting AC or dehu every day so I really need a solution.

I don't think I have a problem, per se, but certainly I do not have an optimized environment.

At this point i'm seriously considering a single programmable controller for AC, dehu and CO2, but they aint cheap.

* * * *

Curiously I've also noticed my CO2 controller shows levels at or above 2500ppm during lights-off, even though the tank does not run at night. Daytime CO2 levels are managed by a Titan preset controller.

Can the plants really be kicking out this much CO2 at night?? I understood it was mostly oxygen produced.

I thought I had a tank leak until I checked the valves.

Again I don't see any issues, and if the plants get to recycle that excess CO2 at lights-on then great. But I also don't want to poison them... or myself!

I did have a headache when trimming in there yesterday... I wonder... :confused:

Javadog · Dec 9, 2016

Doesn't the cycle kinda reverse during the dark hours?

That would explain the CO2....

Heavy harvest there. Enjoy!

Wisher2 · Dec 9, 2016

maybe something is wrong with the controller and releasing during the night

if you get a chance...you should go in during the dark period and check to see what is going on

ttystikk · Dec 9, 2016

ruwtz said:
Chopped the Gorilla Glue yesterday. I'm eyeballing under a pound from four plants, and perhaps one other GG on the adjacent table ought to push it over the lb mark.

And if not, all this lower popcorn stuff ought to do it. Leaving it on for 2-3 days to ripen a little more. Keen to get the next lot in as veg is crammed right now.

View attachment 3849626

Took me a couple hours per plant to trim and hang the main buds. Gonna build a rack today for the smaller stuff.

Came across a dozen or so seeds, I expect there's more in the bud. I guess I didn't catch all those pollen sacs after all.

These hollow stems are kinda new to me, and much woodier than anything i've done outdoors; typically it would be pithy inside.

Should I be worried?

View attachment 3849632

Pleased with how the stalk structures finished too, main stems approx 2" diameter and multiple main branches.

In the next runs I gonna be tougher on training to avoid side branches, especially lower down that won't amount to nothing. These sat dom hybrids seem to be really into it.

View attachment 3849656

* * * *

The 24K is looking nice and has come through with some lovely purple shades, as did the GG at the tops but not nearly as pretty.

May chop early next week; keeping an eye on the trichs. I can see these will yield much better per plant, perhaps because I caught zero signs of hermie over here unlike the GG.

View attachment 3849633

* * * *

Black Jack table is interesting, and lots of variety across the six plants. Entering week 8. All healthy, if a little overfed as I play around with blends and EC strength.

Feed is down 20% to 1.4EC as leaves were cooking. Rolled back base feed 25% and doubled MKP as a kind of late flower "shooting powder".

The shortest girl has thick, shiny, dark green foliage but immature flowers / lots of white hairs.

The tallest girl (pic 1 below) has deep purpling to the fans leaves, some are dry and crinkly, and her buds are also under-developed.

View attachment 3849636

The best girl has a mix of both: dense, healthy foliage and buds ripening nicely. Possible early contender for a good pheno, or some other unknown variable in the garden.

View attachment 3849635

Another one has fat buds and top fan leaves that have gone from purple through to almost black.

Check it out:

View attachment 3849634

* * * *

The Larry OG, also kicking off week 8, has pretty even-sized buds across five plants on this table.

Larry's are also on double MKP at 0.2EC for this week only.

Plants appear healthy although I have seen pollen sacs on all but one of them, poss from early life stress. Never a good sign but i'm taking the risk and keeping them all.

View attachment 3849641

Again I've burned them with finding their feed limits (maxed at 1.8EC two weeks ago) and will be keeping this back in next run in favor of heavier waterings. I think thats a smart approach in this 80F room under DE lamps.

View attachment 3849642

Easily my favorite buds in the room: fist-sized balls and very dense. These will yield nicely.

This bud has thrown out bright yellow leaves right on its top, in amongst the curls of white pistils. They are leaves, not nanners, I promise you!

View attachment 3849640

* * * *

This week with colder weather I have been trialling switching AC off completely at lights out (2pm - 2am). The AC keeps lights-off temps a very low at 63-65F whilst humidity is high at 65-75%, despite the dehu running and also AC actually pulling MORE condensate (I know because I reclaim both).

I don't believe i'm using the Quest 105 dehu to its potential, and the only advice from Quest is to heat the room to drop RH. Frustratingly I cannot find any advice from other Quest users anywhere online.

The dehu puts out some heat so with the AC off the room has been up at 86F at night, and humidity down to 60%. Sealed room.

My thinking is that the dehu is now able to do its job better without AC cycling, plant processes are improved in lower humidity, and as a side benefit I get to experiment with a slight negative temp dif which has been proven as effective means for better yields.

Anyone know whats going on here?? I am not interested in manually adjusting AC or dehu every day so I really need a solution.

I don't think I have a problem, per se, but certainly I do not have an optimized environment.

At this point i'm seriously considering a single programmable controller for AC, dehu and CO2, but they aint cheap.

* * * *

Curiously I've also noticed my CO2 controller shows levels at or above 2500ppm during lights-off, even though the tank does not run at night. Daytime CO2 levels are managed by a Titan preset controller.

Can the plants really be kicking out this much CO2 at night?? I understood it was mostly oxygen produced.

I thought I had a tank leak until I checked the valves.

Again I don't see any issues, and if the plants get to recycle that excess CO2 at lights-on then great. But I also don't want to poison them... or myself!

I did have a headache when trimming in there yesterday... I wonder...

Very nice updates! The tidbits about your environmental control isis are very interesting.

The plants could be making co2 at night- and so could your soil, especially if it's organic and continuing to compost.

Wisher2 · Dec 9, 2016

ruwtz said:
Chopped the Gorilla Glue yesterday. I'm eyeballing under a pound from four plants, and perhaps one other GG on the adjacent table ought to push it over the lb mark.

And if not, all this lower popcorn stuff ought to do it. Leaving it on for 2-3 days to ripen a little more. Keen to get the next lot in as veg is crammed right now.

View attachment 3849626

Took me a couple hours per plant to trim and hang the main buds. Gonna build a rack today for the smaller stuff.

Came across a dozen or so seeds, I expect there's more in the bud. I guess I didn't catch all those pollen sacs after all.

These hollow stems are kinda new to me, and much woodier than anything i've done outdoors; typically it would be pithy inside.

Should I be worried?

View attachment 3849632

Pleased with how the stalk structures finished too, main stems approx 2" diameter and multiple main branches.

In the next runs I gonna be tougher on training to avoid side branches, especially lower down that won't amount to nothing. These sat dom hybrids seem to be really into it.

View attachment 3849656

* * * *

The 24K is looking nice and has come through with some lovely purple shades, as did the GG at the tops but not nearly as pretty.

May chop early next week; keeping an eye on the trichs. I can see these will yield much better per plant, perhaps because I caught zero signs of hermie over here unlike the GG.

View attachment 3849633

* * * *

Black Jack table is interesting, and lots of variety across the six plants. Entering week 8. All healthy, if a little overfed as I play around with blends and EC strength.

Feed is down 20% to 1.4EC as leaves were cooking. Rolled back base feed 25% and doubled MKP as a kind of late flower "shooting powder".

The shortest girl has thick, shiny, dark green foliage but immature flowers / lots of white hairs.

The tallest girl (pic 1 below) has deep purpling to the fans leaves, some are dry and crinkly, and her buds are also under-developed.

View attachment 3849636

The best girl has a mix of both: dense, healthy foliage and buds ripening nicely. Possible early contender for a good pheno, or some other unknown variable in the garden.

View attachment 3849635

Another one has fat buds and top fan leaves that have gone from purple through to almost black.

Check it out:

View attachment 3849634

* * * *

The Larry OG, also kicking off week 8, has pretty even-sized buds across five plants on this table.

Larry's are also on double MKP at 0.2EC for this week only.

Plants appear healthy although I have seen pollen sacs on all but one of them, poss from early life stress. Never a good sign but i'm taking the risk and keeping them all.

View attachment 3849641

Again I've burned them with finding their feed limits (maxed at 1.8EC two weeks ago) and will be keeping this back in next run in favor of heavier waterings. I think thats a smart approach in this 80F room under DE lamps.

View attachment 3849642

Easily my favorite buds in the room: fist-sized balls and very dense. These will yield nicely.

This bud has thrown out bright yellow leaves right on its top, in amongst the curls of white pistils. They are leaves, not nanners, I promise you!

View attachment 3849640

* * * *

This week with colder weather I have been trialling switching AC off completely at lights out (2pm - 2am). The AC keeps lights-off temps a very low at 63-65F whilst humidity is high at 65-75%, despite the dehu running and also AC actually pulling MORE condensate (I know because I reclaim both).

I don't believe i'm using the Quest 105 dehu to its potential, and the only advice from Quest is to heat the room to drop RH. Frustratingly I cannot find any advice from other Quest users anywhere online.

The dehu puts out some heat so with the AC off the room has been up at 86F at night, and humidity down to 60%. Sealed room.

My thinking is that the dehu is now able to do its job better without AC cycling, plant processes are improved in lower humidity, and as a side benefit I get to experiment with a slight negative temp dif which has been proven as effective means for better yields.

Anyone know whats going on here?? I am not interested in manually adjusting AC or dehu every day so I really need a solution.

I don't think I have a problem, per se, but certainly I do not have an optimized environment.

At this point i'm seriously considering a single programmable controller for AC, dehu and CO2, but they aint cheap.

* * * *

Curiously I've also noticed my CO2 controller shows levels at or above 2500ppm during lights-off, even though the tank does not run at night. Daytime CO2 levels are managed by a Titan preset controller.

Can the plants really be kicking out this much CO2 at night?? I understood it was mostly oxygen produced.

I thought I had a tank leak until I checked the valves.

Again I don't see any issues, and if the plants get to recycle that excess CO2 at lights-on then great. But I also don't want to poison them... or myself!

I did have a headache when trimming in there yesterday... I wonder...

last picture looks very much like light bleaching

ruwtz · Dec 10, 2016

No organic soil, all coco here.

Controller seems fine, but hard to check solenoid valve without putting light on it if you know what I mean.

For now I'm going with the plants putting all that CO2 out.

I may consider exhausting to solve this and high night time humidity as it won't be long before weather means I have to run AC by night again.

Risky game cutting AC in a sealed room.

-----------------------

Processed the GG4 trim yesterday, kiefing it with dry ice. Got a couple runs of nice golden sand using 120micron bubble bags - 105g yield from 900g high quality trim and small flowers.

Third run had a green tint so not interested in that.

Dry ice is so easy, just takes a little extra control to avoid plant matter.

I was amazed and delighted to find Smart & Final stocks dry ice. I never would have guessed!!!

Wisher2 · Dec 10, 2016

ruwtz said:
No organic soil, all coco here.

Controller seems fine, but hard to check solenoid valve without putting light on it if you know what I mean.

For now I'm going with the plants putting all that CO2 out.

I may consider exhausting to solve this and high night time humidity as it won't be long before weather means I have to run AC by night again.

Risky game cutting AC in a sealed room.

-----------------------

Processed the GG4 trim yesterday, kiefing it with dry ice. Got a couple runs of nice golden sand using 120micron bubble bags - 105g yield from 900g high quality trim and small flowers.

Third run had a green tint so not interested in that.

View attachment 3850155

Dry ice is so easy, just takes a little extra control to avoid plant matter.

I was amazed and delighted to find Smart & Final stocks dry ice. I never would have guessed!!!

good lookin hash

as for the CO2
what I meant was maybe the controller is turning on for some reason
just a thought

I am pretty sure that these plants dont expell that much during sleep

ruwtz · Dec 11, 2016

Lots of work ahead, looks like every table is in the harvest window now and could finish at any moment.

Black Jack isn't expected for another week but plants look beaten and i've spotted a handful of amber trichs...

Larry OG flowers are nice and ripe and on time to finish this week also. Probably 70/30 on cloudy/clear trichs and most hairs still to recede.

Leaves don't look tired at all. Some slight fade here and there and a couple of splotches but I have been messing with feed. Down and 0.7EC now.

Here's a closer look at those white tips too, which @Wisher2 probably correctly called as light bleaching. These girls are over 5ft tall and only 3ft off the DE lamps.

Mostly looking forward to this yield.

Trichs are tall and abundant...

The 24K has been ready all this week I think, coming through frosty and with shades of purple. Kinda foxtailing all over the place too.

Excited for these flavors if I can take care of them in cure - stinks of cheap Grapefruit soda or fruity candy.

Trouble is I don't have the space to dry everything all at once!

I am considering shutting down flower at this point to dry in there for a quick week before boxing up for the cure.

ruwtz · Dec 13, 2016

My office this week...

This is 1 of 2 plants of the 24K Gold that I trimmed today:

Really dense and evenly sized nugs stacked 6-8 nodes down on the main stems. Very little side branching, and every top a solid provider.

Here's them rods wet trimmed:

Roses for the lady?

Onto the racks under the veg table in the dark, 74F + RH65%.

I was trimming these fuckers from sunrise to sunset. I had no idea these two plants would yield so well; I reckon they could be a pound each.

Couple pounds of popcorn + sugar leaf trim is into the freezer until I get around to kiefing.

ruwtz · Dec 13, 2016

I'm a little concerned about the Gorilla Glue harvest. Chopped five days ago, the buds were crisp on the outside and thickest stems were snapping as quickly as last night. Thats only four days.

The drying space is maintained at 74F + RH65%. This slightly higher-than-desirable humidity meant I chose to wet trim and still aim for a full week to 10 days drying period.

The space has two small fans for circulation only - buds do not move or sway. All buds were left on branches.

With the GG dry so quickly I de-boned and boxed it up for the cure. The humidistat in the container has read 55% overnight and all day today, no movement. Buds still feel crispy to the touch but still bouncy / no crumbly.

I'll be pissed if i've accidentally dried them too far!

Any thoughts guys??

Javadog · Dec 13, 2016

That does seem fast. Do they seem to have lost weight that much?

I have used a paper bag to slow down the drying of a plant before.

Good luck.

JD

Wisher2 · Dec 13, 2016

ruwtz said:
I'm a little concerned about the Gorilla Glue harvest. Chopped five days ago, the buds were crisp on the outside and thickest stems were snapping as quickly as last night. Thats only four days.

The drying space is maintained at 74F + RH65%. This slightly higher-than-desirable humidity meant I chose to wet trim and still aim for a full week to 10 days drying period.

The space has two small fans for circulation only - buds do not move or sway. All buds were left on branches.

With the GG dry so quickly I de-boned and boxed it up for the cure. The humidistat in the container has read 55% overnight and all day today, no movement. Buds still feel crispy to the touch but still bouncy / no crumbly.

I'll be pissed if i've accidentally dried them too far!

Any thoughts guys??

that does seems really fast
but if it is steady @ 55 rh I would place them in there final resting place

do they still smell green or are they smelling good already?

ruwtz · Dec 13, 2016

Wisher2 said:
that does seems really fast
but if it is steady @ 55 rh I would place them in there final resting place

do they still smell green or are they smelling good already?

They smell pretty good, as they did on the plant, not green/grassy at all, and springy to touch.

I don't think all is lost but that crucial 'burping' stage of the cure seems to have been lost. And I am surprised they dried so quickly in this environment. RH65% isn't very dry in my book, and 74F isn't warm either.

ruwtz · Dec 13, 2016

I know some might say dry trim is the only real way to go, but I neither have the space or the time to do it this way.

Wisher2 · Dec 13, 2016

ruwtz said:
I know some might say dry trim is the only real way to go, but I neither have the space or the time to do it this way.

what I do
when I dry trim
is when all is snap dry
I de-bone into a 2/5gal white food grade bucket with a lid
I then take my time with the dry trim
and fill jars or what have you at my leasure

and if you have to step up game
you can always purchase a dry herb trimmer

there are some really good ones now a days

and then all you have to do is finish by hand that extra beauty.......and with machines.....it takes minutes per plant as opposed to an entire day

ruwtz · Dec 13, 2016

Wisher2 said:
what I do
when I dry trim
is when all is snap dry
I de-bone into a 2/5gal white food grade bucket with a lid
I then take my time with the dry trim
and fill jars or what have you at my leasure

and if you have to step up game
you can always purchase a dry herb trimmer

there are some really good ones now a days

and then all you have to do is finish by hand that extra beauty.......and with machines.....it takes minutes per plant as opposed to an entire day

You're the first person I trust to have said anything good about machine trimming. I figured they were only good for the commercial folks to process popcorn.

I think i've proven i'm always ready to go shopping, so...

Got an example of a decent machine?

A someday upgrade, maybe.

Wisher2 · Dec 14, 2016

ruwtz said:
You're the first person I trust to have said anything good about machine trimming. I figured they were only good for the commercial folks to process popcorn.

I think i've proven i'm always ready to go shopping, so...

Got an example of a decent machine?

A someday upgrade, maybe.

yeah I can pull up a few

I dont use one myself because I go slow and dont have any timeline anymore

but yeah I can give a couple examples...

but I would go shopping like.....when you are REALLY pushing time and harvest

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