Russians running yearslong Trolling operation to project their blame onto Ukraine.

Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Zellmet said:
The west not standing up to Putin is appeasement, pure and simple...

If he isn't stopped now, he'll have to be stopped at some point in the future as happened with the Nazis...

The entire thing needs nipping in the bud, before things get out of hand.

Giving Ukraine immediate NATO membership is something that should be considered.
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how the fuck did we become the spokesmen for the rest of the world? last i looked the rest of the world was giving us a lot of shit for trying to speak for them...
and why is the west responsible for any of this? we founded NATO? along with most of Europe..why is America suddenly everyones big brother, who is supposed to kick the big bad bullies to the curb?
so now America is supposed to stand by and let everyone do what they want, how they want, till they step in shit, then we're supposed to clean up the mess?
America has no military treaties with Ukraine, only trade and aid in criminal affairs...we have NO obligation to save them...and were only recently told to mind our own business by Zelenskiy...
pick a motherfucking side, and stick with it, either they want out help, or they don't...at the moment it seems like they don't, so they're on their own for now....
which means that once again, we'll have to invest huge amounts of cash and effort into helping people who didn't want our help until it started to hurt them
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Zellmet said:
Biden could avert war by threatening military action against Putin's attack force, could he not?
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Doubt it. Putin is trying to trigger a war as it is. Between the Saudi's, China, Belarus, Iran, Syria, and whatever other dictatorship's he has ready to jump in on it, any war would be a lot more of a pain in the ass than it already is going to be.

Trump really fucked us with 4 years of allowing the attack on all of our nation's citizens go unchecked. Biden is trying to avoid a war from everything I have seen. And even though I would love to see every nation attacking us everyday laid out, I know that it is far better in the long run if we just harden everything to the attacks.

And that is going to take voting out the insurrectionist RINO's, and that is going to take years unfortunately. And fighting bullshit wars that will cripple economies everywhere and cause millions to die needlessly, is not going to help. IMO,
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-joe-biden-business-munich-ursula-von-der-leyen-2c6fecfb1212c65338547bff96029f96
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MUNICH (AP) — Moscow would have its access to financial markets and high-tech goods limited under Western sanctions being prepared in case Russia attacks Ukraine, a top European Union official said Saturday.

The comments from Ursula von der Leyen, head of the EU’s Executive Commission, came as tensions over Russia’s intentions toward Ukraine intensified. U.S. President Joe Biden said Friday he was convinced” that Russian President Vladimir Putin has decided to invade the neighboring country.

“The Kremlin’s dangerous thinking, which comes straight out of a dark past, may cost Russia a prosperous future,” von der Leyen said during the annual Munich Security Conference, where U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris also spoke.

Von der Leyen said the EU’s executive arm has developed a “robust and comprehensive package” of possible financial sanctions against Russia with the U.S., U.K. and Canada.

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“In case that Russia strikes, we will limit the access to financial markets for the Russian economy and (impose) export controls that will stop the possibility for Russia to modernize and diversify its economy,” she added. “And we have a lot of high-tech goods where we have a global dominance, and that are absolutely necessary for Russia and cannot be replaced easily.”

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the U.K. was coordinating its sanctions closely with the EU.

“If Russia invades its neighbor, we will sanction Russian individuals and companies of strategic importance to the Russian state and we will make it impossible for them to raise finance on the London capital markets,” he said in Munich. Johnson added that authorities would look for “the ultimate beneficiaries” of Russian-owned companies and entities.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said that, during a meeting Tuesday with Putin, he “made clear that any further violation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine will have high costs for Russia, politically, economically and geo-strategically.”

Western leaders so far have not specified what precise Russian action would trigger sanctions. A French official who wasn’t authorized to be publicly named and spoke on condition of anonymity after Biden conferred with several counterparts on Friday said they were talking about an invasion of territory currently under the control of the government in Kyiv.

“It is in the event of an invasion of this territory that ... the massive sanctions that we are talking about would be triggered,” the official said.

Parts of eastern Ukraine are under the control of pro-Russia separatists who have been fighting Ukrainian forces since 2014, the year Russia that annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula.

German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock, asked what Russian actions would trigger sanctions, didn’t offer any details after a meeting in Munich with her counterparts from the Group of Seven industrial powers and Ukraine.

“A breach of Ukraine’s integrity and sovereignty is a breach of Ukraine’s integrity and sovereignty,” Baerbock said. “You can’t say that one geographical part is a bit more Ukraine and another is a bit less Ukraine.”

She said Western officials have made clear that an actual invasion isn’t the only possible scenario but “are prepared for every situation.” Using a chess analogy, the German minister said: “If you present your next five moves in public, you won’t be particularly successful.”

In Munich with other members of the U.S. Congress, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said sanctions might include the SWIFT banking system, which could cut Russia off from most international financial transactions.

“That’s still a matter of negotiation,” Pelosi said.

Kicking Russia out of SWIFT would also hurt other economies, including those of the U.S. and key ally Germany.

Asked whether Congress, which is in recess next week, would come back early if Russia invades Ukraine, Pelosi said “the president has the authority to implement those sanctions without the Congress.”

Regardless of what actions Russia takes, Pelosi said there’s a price to pay for what Putin has done already.

“You can’t bully the world and take a walk and you’re off the hook,” she said.
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Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Zellmet said:
I doubt that talk of sanctions bothers Putin too much --- and he may be just pissed at Zellensky for not helping Drumpf back into the WH with an investigation into Hunter Biden...
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that's a possibility, but i think he is definitely worried about sanctions, he doesn't want to have to fund any of this shit himself, and if he starts to tap the oligarchs too hard, they would cut his throat at a tea party given in his honor, and he knows that...they all rose up through the mafia...
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Zellmet said:
I doubt that talk of sanctions bothers Putin too much --- and he may be just pissed at Zellensky for not helping Drumpf back into the WH with an investigation into Hunter Biden...
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It's the other way around. Trump ran a major money laundering operation that for the most part serviced Putin, his oligarch crime gang and that of Russian satellite nations such as Kazakhstan and Belarus. The US already has twenty years worth of Suspicious Activity Reports (SRAs) filed by banks through Fincen. Fincen a reporting system where banks are required to file an SRA whenever a transaction triggers red flags as defined in the authorizing legislation written in the 1990's. Trump's corporation was a partner in Bayrock Real Estate through which much of the funding for Trump Tower and other Trump properties came from. That money originated offshore. Africa, Russia, Kazakhstan, and so forth.

In Financial Time's reporter, Tom Burgis's book, Kleptopia, he says half of all dirty money in the world resides in the US. Trillions of dollars. Much in real estate. I don't have a link showing details.

The DOJ has access to Fincen files and you can be sure they know whose money was used in much of those transactions. Once personal sanctions are in place against Putin and other powerful men in his circle, their funds will be frozen until court proceedings can be completed. Those funds fuel the cyber ops we've been afflicted with, maybe even traceable to right wing media outlets, the convoy in Canada, etc. To Putin, this is the circuit breaker to his efforts at ruling the world through threats, intimidation, blackmail, Facebook, and other fucked up ways.

So, no. Sanctions are a big deal to Putin. I hope Biden goes through with it anyway.

Why was Debra Harris sent to talk to Putin's emissaries? She was a top notch prosecutor and Attorney General for California. She's really smart, knows the laws and a strong personality.
 
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hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-russia-united-states-europe-black-sea-a4e14d1b12c119c81d07dd3876cb057bScreen Shot 2022-02-20 at 10.20.37 AM.png
KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia extended military drills near Ukraine’s northern borders Sunday amid increased fears that two days of sustained shelling along the contact line between soldiers and Russa-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine could spark an invasion. Ukraine’s president appealed for a cease-fire.

The exercises were originally set to end Sunday and brought a sizable contingent of Russian forces to Belarus. The presence of the Russian troops raised concern that they could be used to sweep down on the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, a city of about 3 million people less than a three-hour drive away.

Western leaders warned that Russia was poised to attack its neighbor, which is surrounded on three sides by about 150,000 Russian soldiers, warplanes and equipment. Russia held nuclear drills Saturday as well as the conventional exercises in Belarus, and has ongoing naval drills off the coast in the Black Sea.

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The United States and many European countries have alleged for months that Russia is trying to create pretexts to invade. They have threatened massive, immediate sanctions if it does.

“ We’re talking about the potential for war in Europe,” U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris said Sunday at a security conference in Munich, Germany. “It’s been over 70 years, and through those 70 years ... there has been peace and security.”

A top European Union official, Charles Michel, said: “The big question remains: does the Kremlin want dialogue?”

“We cannot forever offer an olive branch while Russia conducts missile tests and continues to amass troops,” said Michel, the president of the European Council.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called Saturday on Russian President Vladimir Putin to choose a place where the two leaders could meet to try to resolve the crisis and on Sunday appealed for a cease-fire on Twitter. Russia has denied plans to invade, but the Kremlin had not responded to his offer by Sunday, and it was Belarus — not Russia — that announced the extension of the drills.

NATO has estimated there are 30,000 Russian troops in Belarus.

In Kyiv, life continued seemingly as usual on Sunday, with brunches and church services in full swing. Katerina Spanchak, who fled the separatist-occupied Lugansk region years ago, said she prayed for peace.

“We are people, we all love life, and we are all united by our love of life. We should appreciate it every day. That’s why I think everything will be fine,” Spanchak said outside services at St. Michael’s monastery.

But in Lugansk, the area of eastern Ukraine where her parents still live, and neighboring Donetsk, separatist leaders ordered a full military mobilization and sent more civilians to Russia, which has issued about 700,000 passports to residents of the rebel-held territories. Claims that Russian citizens are being endangered might be used as justification for military action.

Officials in the separatist territories claimed Ukrainian forces launched several artillery attacks over the past day and that two civilians were killed during an unsuccessful assault on a village near the Russian border. Ukraine’s military said two soldiers died in firing from the separatist side on Saturday.

Ukraine’s leader criticized the U.S. and other Western nations for holding back on new sanctions for Russia. Zelenskyy, in comments before the conference, also questioned the West’s refusal to allow Ukraine to join NATO immediately. Putin has demanded that NATO reject Ukraine as a member.

In new signs of fears of imminent war, Germany and Austria told their citizens to leave Ukraine, and NATO’s liaison office in Kyiv pulled staff to Brussels and to the western Ukraine city of Lviv.

U.S. President Joe Biden said late Friday that based on the latest American intelligence, he was now “convinced” that Putin has decided to invade Ukraine in coming days and assault the capital.

A U.S. military official said an estimated 40% to 50% of the ground forces surrounding Ukraine had moved into attack positions closer to the border. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal U.S. assessments, said the change had been underway for about a week and did not necessarily mean Putin was committed to an invasion.

Lines of communication between Moscow and the West remain open: French President Emmanuel Macron spoke with Putin on Sunday for nearly two hours before a 30-minute call with the Ukrainian president. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov agreed to meet next week.

Blinken said Sunday the U.S. was still working every lever possible to try to dissuade Putin from invading Ukraine but said recent events, including the extension of the troops in Belarus and the increase in shelling along the contact line, showed Putin well underway in laying the pretexts and groundwork for invasion, in line with findings of U.S. intelligence and previous Russian territorial grabs. “He is following the script almost to the letter,” Blinken told CNN.

“Up to the last minute, there is still an option for him to pull back,” Blinken told NBC’s Meet the Press. He said his offer to meet Lavrov in Europe in the coming days was conditioned on Russia not rolling into Ukraine beforehand.

Macron’s office said both the Ukrainian and Russian leaders had agreed to work toward a diplomatic solution “in coming days and coming weeks.”

Immediate worries focused on eastern Ukraine, where Ukrainian forces have been fighting the pro-Russia rebels since 2014 in a conflict that has killed some 14,000 people.

Ukraine and the separatist leaders traded accusations of escalation. Russia on Saturday said at least two shells fired from a government-held part of eastern Ukraine landed across the border, but Ukraine’s foreign minister dismissed that claim as “a fake statement.”

“When tension is escalated to the maximum, as it is now, for example, on the line of contact, then any spark, any unplanned incident or any minor planned provocation can lead to irreparable consequences,” Putin’ spokesman Dmitry Peskov said in an interview that aired Sunday on Russian state television.

On the front lines, Ukrainian soldiers said they were under orders not to return fire. Zahar Leshushun, peering into the distance with a periscope, had followed the news all day from a trench where he is posted near the town of Zolote.

“Right now, we don’t respond to their fire because ...” the soldier said before being interrupted by the sound of an incoming shell. “Oh! They are shooting at us now. They are aiming at the command post.”

Sporadic violence has broken out for years along the line separating Ukrainian forces from the Russia-backed separatists, but the spike in recent days is orders of magnitude higher than anything recently recorded by international monitors: nearly 1,500 explosions in 24 hours.

Denis Pushilin, the head of the pro-Russia separatist government in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, cited an “immediate threat of aggression” from Ukrainian forces in his announcement of a call to arms. Ukrainian officials vehemently denied having plans to take rebel-controlled areas by force.

A similar statement followed from his counterpart in the Luhansk region. On Friday, the rebels began evacuating civilians to Russia with an announcement that appeared to be part of their and Moscow’s efforts to paint Ukraine as the aggressor.

Metadata from two videos posted by the separatists announcing the evacuation of civilians to Russia show that the files were created two days ago, the AP confirmed. U.S. authorities have alleged that the Kremlin’s effort to come up with an invasion pretext could include staged, prerecorded videos.
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hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member


Hopefully Putin was just trolling Biden by giving his military the order to attack to make America look bad, and Putin's troops don't start killing more innocent people. I would be happy if that turns out to be the case.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
Ukraine could invite NATO to hold military exercises along their border with russia....just an idea....
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idk, I think that this might just be the reasoning the free world wants to shut the doors hard on Russian fuckery in all of our borders.

It sucks for Ukraine, because Russia has been attacking them for the better part of the last decade, but it also sucks for the Russian people to have to deal with having a dictator that does shit like lock up his political rivals, and we can do much for either without costing far more lives.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
idk, I think that this might just be the reasoning the free world wants to shut the doors hard on Russian fuckery in all of our borders.

It sucks for Ukraine, because Russia has been attacking them for the better part of the last decade, but it also sucks for the Russian people to have to deal with having a dictator that does shit like lock up his political rivals, and we can do much for either without costing far more lives.
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we could set an example, and do what i've been saying for a while, seize everything of theirs we can seize, liquidate it, and give it to the target of russia's current fuckery...in this case Ukraine, to repair damage, provide first aid and longer term medical care for the victims of their war crimes, to repair older weaponry and hardware, and buy newer hardware, weapons, and ammunition...and maybe we could give some to cheap ass france, so they can replace those apparently very expensive helmets they donated....cheap fuckers
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
we could set an example, and do what i've been saying for a while, seize everything of theirs we can seize, liquidate it, and give it to the target of russia's current fuckery...in this case Ukraine, to repair damage, provide first aid and longer term medical care for the victims of their war crimes, to repair older weaponry and hardware, and buy newer hardware, weapons, and ammunition...and maybe we could give some to cheap ass france, so they can replace those apparently very expensive helmets they donated....cheap fuckers
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There is estimates of a million refugees from this war that could use a helping hand, so that might well be the place to start with the seized funds.
 
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