Running hps 13/11 to increase yield

BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Olive Drab Green said:
Anything more concrete? This is more speculative. "Think" denotes something believed to be, not proven to be. Not saying it does or doesn't. Just want some good, relevant evidence.
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Regardless of what I can find for you in google, weed plants do droop their leaves shorty before the lights are scheduled to go off. If you have a better explanation then I'm sure there are a few scientists who would be interested.
 
CannaBruh

CannaBruh

Well-Known Member
If you are not witnessing your plants "perk up" vs "droop" you are not paying close enough attention to your ladies imo.

They all absolutely do this, I can see it immediately "she's up, or she's sleep"

Can't tell you the why, but it very much is apparent, many refer to "up" as "praying to the light" and "droop" as sleep... regardless of the technical phenomenon which causes it, it's a thing we agree on "awake" vs "sleep" and we all know what each other are referring to.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
You need to read up on light saturation. It may "seem" logical, but more light does not necessarily mean more yield, as has been proven by many people, like me, who have yielded more with less light.

In simpler terms... growing is hard work for a plant. They fatigue. Plants cant grow at a steady rate all day. They take a while to wake up, then they ramp up, then they take a break (mid day slump), then they really get going....and then they gradually tire out and slow down. Just the same as us. And they need rest like us. The better rested they are the harder they can work/grow.

Try it...youll see. Cut to 10/14 at least and see if you dont yield at least the same or better than the last grow of the same strain. (provided you have a problem free run).
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With a longer day, you can get the same DLI with lower average PPFD. Light saturation becomes less of an issue at lower PPFD.

Conversely, a shorter day means you have to use a higher average PPFD to get the same DLI.
 
CannaBruh

CannaBruh

Well-Known Member
Something that has me curious, do the plants do this same "perk up" and "sleep/droop" at night? Anyone with a time-lapse ever observed the ladies in a "droop" state, actually perk up into a "praying" state while the lights were off throughout that transition? That would be interesting to know because I have no idea honestly.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
After using 13/11 on some plants between weeks 3 and 4, I find that they are getting too leafy so I went back to 12/12. The extra leaf may help build flowers but I have enough leaf now so it's time for pure flower.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
You kind of need the far-red pulse after lights out if you want to go over 12 hours of light a day without affecting flowering.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
CannaBruh said:
If you are not witnessing your plants "perk up" vs "droop" you are not paying close enough attention to your ladies imo.

They all absolutely do this, I can see it immediately "she's up, or she's sleep"

Can't tell you the why, but it very much is apparent, many refer to "up" as "praying to the light" and "droop" as sleep... regardless of the technical phenomenon which causes it, it's a thing we agree on "awake" vs "sleep" and we all know what each other are referring to.
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During lights on the roots suck up water and moisture is evaporated through the leaves causing "lift". During lights off the photosynth stops and the plant releases the moisture back through its roots into the pot causing the droop.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
You kind of need the far-red pulse after lights out if you want to go over 12 hours of light a day without affecting flowering.
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I read an article where they experimented with end of day far red and red. The far red caused stem elongation but had no effect on flowering in the short day plant they were using, which I think was Chrysanthemums. The red had no significant effect. I haven't seen any study that ever supported the idea that EOD far red actually effects flowering. If you want longer stems though, it's apparently good for that.

Many Cannabis strains will flower with 14 hours of light, so it doesn't really prove anything that people were able to flower with days as long as that. If EOD FR really made it like there were 2 extra hours of dark then you'd be able to flower with 15 hours of light, because Cannabis can normally flower with 13. Let's see somebody do that and then I'll believe that it works. If it worked, wouldn't every greenhouse short day plant operation be using it? Yet I've never heard of even one. All they ever use it for is increasing stem length. If someone can show a study then I'll believe it. Just haven't seen one yet.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
I read an article where they experimented with end of day far red and red. The far red caused stem elongation but had no effect on flowering in the short day plant they were using, which I think was Chrysanthemums. The red had no significant effect. I haven't seen any study that ever supported the idea that EOD far red actually effects flowering. If you want longer stems though, it's apparently good for that.

Many Cannabis strains will flower with 14 hours of light, so it doesn't really prove anything that people were able to flower with days as long as that. If EOD FR really made it like there were 2 extra hours of dark then you'd be able to flower with 15 hours of light, because Cannabis can normally flower with 13. Let's see somebody do that and then I'll believe that it works. If it worked, wouldn't every greenhouse short day plant operation be using it? Yet I've never heard of even one. All they ever use it for is increasing stem length. If someone can show a study then I'll believe it. Just haven't seen one yet.
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How's the vitamin C working out?
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
I read an article where they experimented with end of day far red and red
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Red has the opposite effect as far-red.

The reality is that the effects of far-red on the flowering of short day flowering plants is well known, while the effects of UV-B on THC has very little evidence to back it up.

 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
Red has the opposite effect as far-red.

The reality is that the effects of far-red on the flowering of short day flowering plants is well known, while the effects of UV-B on THC has very little evidence to back it up.

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Yeah I know. Actually in some cases EOD red did reduce stem elongation about 10-15%. In other case no effect. EOD does not mean middle of night.
 
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bryan oconner

Well-Known Member
I just put mine from 12/12 to 10 /14 . after I got a million dollar electric bill. started the 10.14 a week ago . they were not getting any fatter at 12/12 I thought I was just waiting for them to mature condition normal . well after a week of 10/14 they are almost 40 % bigger ! its about week 7 should be to size . I am impressed with the 10/14 brought out a LOT of extra yield . and the sugar rolling all over . also have some plants week 1 7 days in . to me it looks like it should be week 2 . I am seriously impressed with this 10/14 strongly suggest trying it . my lighting is all 600 and 1000 watt hps . so I don't know how this would work under led or cfl . soon to find out buying a led Friday to fuck around with want to see the quality vs hps there are so many mixed reviews only way to know do it my self .
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
bryan oconner said:
I just put mine from 12/12 to 10 /14 . after I got a million dollar electric bill. started the 10.14 a week ago . they were not getting any fatter at 12/12 I thought I was just waiting for them to mature condition normal . well after a week of 10/14 they are almost 40 % bigger ! its about week 7 should be to size . I am impressed with the 10/14 brought out a LOT of extra yield . and the sugar rolling all over . also have some plants week 1 7 days in . to me it looks like it should be week 2 . I am seriously impressed with this 10/14 strongly suggest trying it . my lighting is all 600 and 1000 watt hps . so I don't know how this would work under led or cfl . soon to find out buying a led Friday to fuck around with want to see the quality vs hps there are so many mixed reviews only way to know do it my self .
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Maybe 10 or even 8 hours does work better than 12. I've only seen experiments that showed 11 hours produced less than 12, but they didn't try lower than 11. Maybe it has to get down to 10 or less for the effect to show up. However, I've also read that such low hours can cause herming. Maybe not with all strains though. I would keep a close watch for nanners.
 
Odin*

Odin*

Well-Known Member
Gquebed said:
You need to read up on light saturation. It may "seem" logical, but more light does not necessarily mean more yield, as has been proven by many people, like me, who have yielded more with less light.

In simpler terms... growing is hard work for a plant. They fatigue. Plants cant grow at a steady rate all day. They take a while to wake up, then they ramp up, then they take a break (mid day slump), then they really get going....and then they gradually tire out and slow down. Just the same as us. And they need rest like us. The better rested they are the harder they can work/grow.

Try it...youll see. Cut to 10/14 at least and see if you dont yield at least the same or better than the last grow of the same strain. (provided you have a problem free run).
Click to expand...
This isn't entirely true...

Regarding light saturation; A given plants light saturation point can be increased/decreased by environmental factors, supplementation, and manipulation of metabolism. In one study, the plant was exposed to twice the intensity of it's "known" light saturation point, but with little to no negative effects because of maintained cooler temps. It was this same study that concluded that mid-day depression is not a result of excessive light, but instead a result of the excessive heat associated with mid-day. I posted the link to the study in another thread.

In optimal health, in optimal conditions, with optimal supplementation, the plants can grow/develop from the moment of lights on right on through to when they shut off. "They take awhile to wake up...", only because of the faint light intensity of early morning, "... then they really get going", as light intensity increases as the sun passes overhead, "...and then they gradually tire out and slow down", due to the excessive heat of mid-day and the waning light of dusk. These "negatives" are mitigated or circumvented in a proper indoor climate.

Regarding far red/deep red; it is the ratio of red to far red receptors initiated that generates the onset of, as well as the "maintenance" of, bloom. I posted that link elsewhere as well.
 
Gquebed

Gquebed

Well-Known Member
Odin* said:
This isn't entirely true...

Regarding light saturation; A given plants light saturation point can be increased/decreased by environmental factors, supplementation, and manipulation of metabolism. In one study, the plant was exposed to twice the intensity of it's "known" light saturation point, but with little to no negative effects because of maintained cooler temps. It was this same study that concluded that mid-day depression is not a result of excessive light, but instead a result of the excessive heat associated with mid-day. I posted the link to the study in another thread.

In optimal health, in optimal conditions, with optimal supplementation, the plants can grow/develop from the moment of lights on right on through to when they shut off. "They take awhile to wake up...", only because of the faint light intensity of early morning, "... then they really get going", as light intensity increases as the sun passes overhead, "...and then they gradually tire out and slow down", due to the excessive heat of mid-day and the waning light of dusk. These "negatives" are mitigated or circumvented in a proper indoor climate.

Regarding far red/deep red; it is the ratio of red to far red receptors initiated that generates the onset of, as well as the "maintenance" of, bloom. I posted that link elsewhere as well.
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Fair enough. I was speaking generally.
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
I have mine on 8/16 right now, because it's week 10, final week. Also the lizard lights are on. That's my ripening program. Last time I only went down to 9/15 and only for the last 3 cycles then 24 hours continuous before chop, the UV lights also only for those last few days. It did come out very potent. I'll see how this more extended version works out shortly and report.
 
Thebigyin

Thebigyin

Active Member
Thread is older than a fossil but here's a question! Would starting flower on 11/13 then switching to 12/12 halfway through flower give you the best of both worlds?
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
i honestly don't see it making a noticeable improvement to your yields. by the end of a 12 hour cycle, most of my plants are drooping a little, tired out from their days intense work, and are ready for some rest. if you give them another hour of light, they wouldn't make very good use of it, and would be losing an hour of recovery time
 
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