RIP Hostess

Johnny Retro

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
FOUR20 SWG said:
Would you take a 30% pay cut while your boss took a raise?

Shouldn't management, who already make a disproportionately high salary by comparison, foster some of the burden when it comes to cuts?

Do you think pensions are a bonus or an obligation?
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Not 30% do not cite incorrect numbers.

Did the CEO deserve a pay raise? Again, NO. BUT IT IS THEIR COMPANY. THEY employ you. You are entitled to nothing. You are lucky they gave YOU a job. And if you don't like them as management THEN LEAVE. You seem to think these people were forced to work there. I'd be willing to bet a good percentage out of the 12million Americans unemployed would be more than happy to take a 50% of what those workers are making now and have no pension and be perfectly happy.

I think pensions as a theory is an obligation. But that is not reality. There are too many times that companies and governments do not fulfill their pension agreements.

You and I are different. You rely on others to provide for you, I rely on myself.
 
FOUR20 SWG

FOUR20 SWG

Active Member
fdd2blk said:
no, i do not think the CEO's will do anything but keep that money for themselves. did you think they wouldn't is the real question. and if so, why?
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Of course they will. That's what i've been saying this whole time....:roll:


And do you think that's right?
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
FOUR20 SWG said:
That's cool. You'll be able to build some for our soon-to-be-overlords, the Chinese. I hear there's a booming market for vintages in Asia. Once people finally start listening to really smart dudes like you, ya know, and eliminate unions and all. We'll be ridin high! Wall Street will soar, the housing markets will roar in metro areas. Good times are here again, que the jazz music. And then, 10 years later. After they've had a chance to bleed every last dollar they can out of their workers' and can squeez no more. They will uproot all their factories over to China or India or where ever else they can save a buck and proceed to give America the big FUCK YOU that they have been bottling up for oh so long. Companies think only of the bottom line. You cannot allow them any more advantage than what they are already given naturally. Why give them a hand when all they want is to flip you the bird?
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where did i ever say anything about eliminating unions? i'm just wondering why people are whining about something that has been coming for 7 years now. what the fuck were people expecting? a company went broke. it happens every day, union or not. why all the fuss? yes, companies fuck you. deal with it or don't work. or start your own. what is it that all this crying is supposed to accomplish? what the hell is the point of this thread? other than to complain.
 
FOUR20 SWG

FOUR20 SWG

Active Member
Johnny Retro said:
Not 30% do not cite incorrect numbers.

Did the CEO deserve a pay raise? Again, NO. BUT IT IS THEIR COMPANY. THEY employ you. You are entitled to nothing. You are lucky they gave YOU a job. And if you don't like them as management THEN LEAVE. You seem to think these people were forced to work there. I'd be willing to bet a good percentage out of the 12million Americans unemployed would be more than happy to take a 50% of what those workers are making now and have no pension and be perfectly happy.

I think pensions as a theory is an obligation. But that is not reality. There are too many times that companies and governments do not fulfill their pension agreements.

You and I are different. You rely on others to provide for you, I rely on myself.
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A) I'm citing the Chicago Trib there dumdum, which says up to 30% cuts for workers while execs get raises, same sentence. http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-hostess-brands-seeks-court-permission-to-liquidate-20121116,0,3175964.story

B)They do run the company. They are also required to live up to their contractual obligations with employees and honor pension promises, not give themselves raises and then sell off all the brands for huge profits. That's vulture capitalism.

C) I am completely financially independent. No government handouts, no mommy and daddy bailouts. Just me. Nice try though, I bet you voted Romney and think you're part of the "Real America".
 
FOUR20 SWG

FOUR20 SWG

Active Member
fdd2blk said:
it is what it is. crying certainly doesn't help. weren't you taught this at an early age? "life isn't fair."
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How very unAmerican of you.

This country was founded by people who refused to laydown when they were told to simply stay quiet and take it. They viewed tyranny with disdain, and now, a few short generations removed we find people like you who ridicule dissent as something that is "whiney and bitchy".

Really dude?

Because to me you sound ill-informed and lazy. Too self-absorbed to care that 18,000 Americans and their families are heading into some darktimes right around the holidays.

Just because the King wears Armani and not a crown-n-breeches, doesn't mean he's anyless of a bastard.
 
RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
Johnny Retro said:
Not 30% do not cite incorrect numbers.Did the CEO deserve a pay raise? Again, NO. BUT IT IS THEIR COMPANY. THEY employ you. You are entitled to nothing. You are lucky they gave YOU a job. And if you don't like them as management THEN LEAVE. You seem to think these people were forced to work there. I'd be willing to bet a good percentage out of the 12million Americans unemployed would be more than happy to take a 50% of what those workers are making now and have no pension and be perfectly happy.I think pensions as a theory is an obligation. But that is not reality. There are too many times that companies and governments do not fulfill their pension agreements. You and I are different. You rely on others to provide for you, I rely on myself.
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ITS 27% over 5 years
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Johnny Retro said:
Not 30% do not cite incorrect numbers.

Did the CEO deserve a pay raise? Again, NO. BUT IT IS THEIR COMPANY. THEY employ you. You are entitled to nothing. You are lucky they gave YOU a job. And if you don't like them as management THEN LEAVE. You seem to think these people were forced to work there. I'd be willing to bet a good percentage out of the 12million Americans unemployed would be more than happy to take a 50% of what those workers are making now and have no pension and be perfectly happy.

I think pensions as a theory is an obligation. But that is not reality. There are too many times that companies and governments do not fulfill their pension agreements.

You and I are different. You rely on others to provide for you, I rely on myself.
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Doesn't make it right. cn
 
Johnny Retro

Johnny Retro

Well-Known Member
FOUR20 SWG said:
A) I'm citing the Chicago Trib there dumdum, which says up to 30% cuts for workers while execs get raises, same sentence. http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-hostess-brands-seeks-court-permission-to-liquidate-20121116,0,3175964.story

B)They do run the company. They are also required to live up to their contractual obligations with employees and honor pension promises, not give themselves raises and then sell off all the brands for huge profits. That's vulture capitalism.

C) I am completely financially independent. No government handouts, no mommy and daddy bailouts. Just me. Nice try though, I bet you voted Romney and think you're part of the "Real America".
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They were cutting pay by 8% and taking away some benefits.

Which is why the pension system is flawed. How can a company loosing revenue continue to pay out on a pension? You want them to borrow money to pay out, they take on a bunch of debt, and we create another credit crisis? That logic is retarded.

I voted Gary Johnson ;)
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Johnny Retro said:
Not 30% do not cite incorrect numbers.

Did the CEO deserve a pay raise? Again, NO. BUT IT IS THEIR COMPANY. THEY employ you. You are entitled to nothing. You are lucky they gave YOU a job. And if you don't like them as management THEN LEAVE. You seem to think these people were forced to work there. I'd be willing to bet a good percentage out of the 12million Americans unemployed would be more than happy to take a 50% of what those workers are making now and have no pension and be perfectly happy.

I think pensions as a theory is an obligation. But that is not reality. There are too many times that companies and governments do not fulfill their pension agreements.

You and I are different. You rely on others to provide for you, I rely on myself.
Click to expand...
In July of 2011 we received a letter from the company. It said that the $3+ per hour that we as a Union contribute to the pension was going to be 'borrowed' by the company until they could be profitable again. Then they would pay it all back. The Union was notified of this the same time and method as the individual members. No contact from the company to the Union on a national level.

This money will never be paid back. The company filed for bankruptcy and the judge ruled that the $3+ per hour was a debt the company couldn't repay. The Union continued to work despite this theft of our self-funded pension contributions for over a year. I consider this money stolen. No other word in the English language describes what they have done to this money.

After securing our hourly cash from the bankruptcy judge they set out on getting approval to force a new contract on us. They had already refused to negotiate outside of court. They received approval from the judge to impose the contract then turned it over to the Union for a vote. You read that right, they got it approved by the judge before ever showing to the Union.

What was this last/best/final offer? You'd never know by watching the main stream media tell the story. So here you go...
1) 8% hourly pay cut in year 1 with additional cuts totaling 27% over 5 years. Currently, I make $16.12 an hour at TOP rate of pay in the bakery. I would drop to $11.26 in 5 years.
2) They get to keep our $3+ an hour forever.
3) Doubling of weekly insurance premium.
4) Lowering of overall quality of insurance plan.
5) TOTAL withdrawal from ALL pensions. If you don't have it now then you never will.

Remember how I said I made $48,000 in 2005 and $34,000 last year? I would make $25,000 in 5 years if I took their offer.
 
FOUR20 SWG

FOUR20 SWG

Active Member
Johnny Retro said:
They were cutting pay by 8% and taking away some benefits.

Which is why the pension system is flawed. How can a company loosing revenue continue to pay out on a pension? You want them to borrow money to pay out, they take on a bunch of debt, and we create another credit crisis? That logic is retarded.

I voted Gary Johnson ;)
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Cheers on the Johnson vote then I guess, apologies for the Mitt-slap.

But come on man...they can't afford the employee pensions but they can afford to give raises and bonuses? Obviously apples and oranges because the ammount spent on the bonuses wasn't enough to doom the company out right. But when you foster a culture of greed like that, giving exorbinant ammounts of dough to the top tier and neglecting the bottom, you can't very well then turn back around and blame unions.

If a ship crashes, do you blame the crew? Or do you look to the captain who was manning the wheel?
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
FOUR20 SWG said:
How very unAmerican of you. This country was founded by people who refused to laydown when they were told to simply stay quiet and take it. They viewed tyranny with disdain, and now, a few short generations removed we find people like you who ridicule dissent as something that is "whiney and bitchy". Really dude? Because to me you sound ill-informed and lazy. Too self-absorbed to care that 18,000 Americans and their families are heading into some darktimes right around the holidays. Just because the King wears Armani and not a crown-n-breeches, doesn't mean he's anyless of a bastard.
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those 18,000 people had an option and they chose their own fate. why is that my responsibility? i feel "bad" for them, but i don't feel "sorry" for them. they stood up and lost and now they are crying. deal with it and move on. make better decisions next time. learn from your mistakes.
 
RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
those 18,000 people had an option and they chose their own fate. why is that my responsibility? i feel "bad" for them, but i don't feel "sorry" for them. they stood up and lost and now they are crying. deal with it and move on. make better decisions next time. learn from your mistakes.
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18,500 where fired, approximately 4000 of them where union workers. Selfish ill say it again
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
In July of 2011 we received a letter from the company. It said that the $3+ per hour that we as a Union contribute to the pension was going to be 'borrowed' by the company until they could be profitable again. Then they would pay it all back. The Union was notified of this the same time and method as the individual members. No contact from the company to the Union on a national level. This money will never be paid back. The company filed for bankruptcy and the judge ruled that the $3+ per hour was a debt the company couldn't repay. The Union continued to work despite this theft of our self-funded pension contributions for over a year. I consider this money stolen. No other word in the English language describes what they have done to this money. After securing our hourly cash from the bankruptcy judge they set out on getting approval to force a new contract on us. They had already refused to negotiate outside of court. They received approval from the judge to impose the contract then turned it over to the Union for a vote. You read that right, they got it approved by the judge before ever showing to the Union. What was this last/best/final offer? You'd never know by watching the main stream media tell the story. So here you go... 1) 8% hourly pay cut in year 1 with additional cuts totaling 27% over 5 years. Currently, I make $16.12 an hour at TOP rate of pay in the bakery. I would drop to $11.26 in 5 years. 2) They get to keep our $3+ an hour forever. 3) Doubling of weekly insurance premium. 4) Lowering of overall quality of insurance plan. 5) TOTAL withdrawal from ALL pensions. If you don't have it now then you never will. Remember how I said I made $48,000 in 2005 and $34,000 last year? I would make $25,000 in 5 years if I took their offer.
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how much you makin' now?
 
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