RM3
Well-Known Member
Still love ya brother
Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients
- Thread starter MisterBlah
- Start date
-
- Tags
- cheap diy fertilizer low cost nutrients
MisterBlah
Well-Known Member
Literally the entire cannabis industry is made harder than it needs to be. Their fucking plants. You stick them in the ground and they grow. You add fertilizer and they grow bigger. So many people spend too much time on the technical side of things they forget about the whole "working hard" side of growing plants. Both you and I and everyone else are guilty of this.
The UF hydroponic tomato blend is actually a shit load of different blends, all with very similar targets. https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/cv216
Go have a look. And tell me the average joe is going to get confused as all shit really quickly. There are 5 different growth periods, and they show you 4 different premixes that you use with things like Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium Sulfate. Over all, that page has like 40 or more different fertilizer blends. And then, about 3/5 down the page, you find the blend that you're talking about.
"Table 5. Several examples of tomato nutrient solution formulations using the “formula method” with individual ingredients." And there's still even 4 different formulas for that, each with 5 growth stages. How the hell is someone going to know what to chose? An average person looks at a bunch of numbers like that and freaks the fuck out. While the idea to use their proposed targets may be valuable, it is also not an end all be all for all stages of growth. It is best suited for the vegetative growth stages of the cannabis plant. Not so much for the flowering stages were lower nitrogen is necessary.
The reason the liquid blends sell so well is because they don't require any mental capacity to use. The consumer likes convenience.
The whole point of doing this reverse engineering in the first place was to introduce people to blending their own fertilizers. Something that most of the industry is still clueless about, even on the commercial level. It was simply a step in the right direction. So, instead of diving full on head first, you get something that is little easier to swallow.
Except there are hundreds of cookie recipes on the Internet and there are comparatively few fertilizer recipes that are often hard to find when you have to sort through all the liquid blends that dominate the search results. So it doesn't take 5 seconds to find it. While I understand the sentiment, there's a ton of people who haven't learned of the cheaper ways to do it, and they have huge fucking egos, just like everyone else here who thinks their weed is the best thing since sliced bread.
The point of this is to make it available. Something that hasn't been so easily available in the past.
In this case, that means starting with blends of what people are already using. And soon enough, it will mean cannabis specific blends.
Last edited:
MisterBlah
Well-Known Member
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
And again, you've gone off and made an incorrect assumption. I haven't bought water bottled nutrients in years.
I know damn good and well what's in the formulas, I use dry nutes and have for years.
This commercial facility grows not less than $100 MILLION DOLLARS worth of product annually, that's even more than you do. Thus, it seems prudent to know their system backwards and forwards before I blithely make a ton of assumptions about what works and what doesn't.
If YOU don't want to more closely investigate commercial systems, that's fine- but berating it as hype and nonsense is just plain head in the sand shortsighted.
And I'm willing to bet more than you can afford that I'm doing more engineering than you are.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
If you're so worried that you're going to screw up, maybe you should learn what you're doing before expanding?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Listen once again, because you obviously were too busy getting your response ready to listen or think;
I'm replicating a complete, successful system, with an eye towards understanding it more thoroughly. One that in terms of dollars and reputation far outstrips anything you've done.
Once I've got a grasp on how THEY do it, I'll be more informed about the choices I want to make.
And no, starting a ripoff nutes company is the furthest thing from my mind and plans. Stop being an asshole, defined in this case by making unfounded accusations about my motives and intentions.
Meanwhile, go beat your dead horse somewhere else; it's starting to stink.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
LMAO!
Trying new things is exactly how one learns!
By this logic, the only closed mind here is yours.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
You could learn a lot by following that DIY guide I posted rather than just liking it. (actually do it to get the experience so you're less scared)
(or pick any of the reverse engineered recipes listed on this thread rather than just talking about them. They're all essentially the same recipe.)
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
I've picked one, thanks. Don't be upset that it isn't yours.
Why haven't you asked yourself why such a large facility hasn't made the decision to save many thousands of dollars a year by building their own formulas rather than using Canna products?
Cuz you're stuck in a rut.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Please order the salts now. Just do it already. IT doesn't matter which recipe you choose. Just choose one.
Btw, it wasn't my recipe, it was the University of Florida's. I couldn't care less which one you pick.. but listening to your thoughts on the matter without relevant experience is mind numbing... You're making this out to be a lot harder than it is. Pour the ingredients in the A+B bottles and fill the rest with water.
Last edited:
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I didn't realize you're a canna rep now. Somebody should put the "Advertiser" banner on your avatar. You've gotta be real careful about who's actually working for these nutrient companies.
They can pay 800 bucks all the time if they want to. The reason they won't change is because they've allowed themselves to be mislead and had no interest in learning there's a better way of doing things.
MisterBlah
Well-Known Member
The argument you two have going is, in the grand scheme of things, completely worthless.
You're essentially both arguing about what blend to use.
Both of you use conventional fertilizers.
Since there aren't very many blends that are available to be used with individual ingredients, why don't you just sit and wait until the results come in before bickering about who's blend is better? There is literally no scientific evidence available to support either of your claims that one blend is actually better.
You're essentially both arguing about what blend to use.
Both of you use conventional fertilizers.
Since there aren't very many blends that are available to be used with individual ingredients, why don't you just sit and wait until the results come in before bickering about who's blend is better? There is literally no scientific evidence available to support either of your claims that one blend is actually better.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Actually, I never made an argument about which blend is better. You could randomly throw handfuls of each ingredient salt into a reservoir and probably still succeed to grow a plant. I just questioned the value of reverse engineering popular products vs finding preexisting recipes from reputable sources and using them as as base for your own formulas. (Hoagland Formula would be another good place to start)
I never said that one product was better than another, in fact, I'm suggesting they're pretty much the same. He's the one that thinks Canna will outperform any old tomato recipe you choose from a hydroponic recipe database.
Last edited:
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Yet another ASS-umption. Really, it's beneath you.
MisterBlah
Well-Known Member
I understand that. And I think we can all agree that they will be about the same.
That being said, when you start to analyze your argument and what it's implications are, you can come to a different conclusion.
Here you say to use the UF blend and not spend any time on anything else. The implication being that spending time on anything else is a waste of your time since the blend is not going to perform as well.
Whether it was intentional or not, that's what you implied. And I know that's where a lot of this started.
I only mean this as a criticism to your arguing skills. A lot of arguments are strongly based on their implications as opposed to only what is explicitly stated. I've struggled with this same sort of shit myself in the past, and it's always pissed me off, so I tend to spend extra time writing and proofreading to make sure I know what the implications are as well.
Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
Sorry missed this and sorry to frustrate you
but never said it was clogging my nozzles, just my screen. I was concerned about salts with the nozzles if I did use them. Again I apologize if you got frustrated....turn that frown upside down church 
. You seem like a not very happy guy these days .
klx
Well-Known Member
Thanks legend.
I totally agree with you, which is why I am simply following MisterBlah's recipe for Canna A+B. Not sure what you mean by making things hard as this looks as simple as it gets to me. Literally 5 ingredients:
Comparable to AQUA FLORES A 3-0-6
Potassium Nitrate : 129668.000 mg/l
Calcium Nitrate : 78947.370 mg/l
Comparable to AQUA FLORES B 0-4-3
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 76914.670 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 500.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 412.500 mg/l
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
klx
Well-Known Member
I dunno, it's not in the veg mix either. @MisterBlah can you confirm above mix?