Religion: why you believe what you believe, and how can you prove it.

Heisenberg said:

I realize this is out of context, but you may want to research what an evolutionist or a neuroscientist has to say about that.

Click to expand...

...I had an interesting visit with a neuroscientist once. I bled, we laughed, it was the start of a 15 minute talk on the functions of the brain. He felt that certain people were able to use more of the brain than others. Biblically (and mostly metaphysically speaking) the 24 elders of revelation point to this. Here's an example of what I mean.

"humans actually have three different dimensions of human awareness: the conscious mind (personality, the subconscious mind (soul) and the superconscious mind (spirit). An important goal in everyone's life is to awaken our superconscious mind to attain at-one-ment with God." - Cayce

When a person does not follow, in the blind sense, that person can dig and benefit from it, imo.

I don't know man, i think you should google night terrors or sleep paralysis. I dont know much about the worst inherent fear in humans, i guess it would be death, or maybe pain... but maybe its more than that. Maybe when introduced to ideas of demons this automatically gets put into our brains as (most feared thing) for us. As demons are the only "evil" beings we represent with surviving death, or existing after it, or meeting us there. Already dead beings, or devils... as everyone who has ever experienced night terrors can empathize with the unmovable unshakable intense feeling of dread and evil. The inability to talk or move anything but your eyes.

I really cant say what it is, personally... i think the similarities have everything to do with the most feared idea that humans have, or brings out the fears that we have the most, if the latter is the case, there must be many MANY out there who consider the idea of evil "dead" beings our subconscious's worst fear.

Here's a copy:
Over the centuries, symptoms of sleep paralysis have been described in many ways and often attributed to an "evil" presence: unseen night demons in ancient times, the old hag in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, and alien abductors. Almost every culture throughout history has had stories of shadowy evil creatures that terrify helpless humans at night. People have long sought explanations for this mysterious sleep-time paralysis and the accompanying feelings of terror.

Zaehet Strife said:

I don't know man, i think you should google night terrors or sleep paralysis. I dont know much about the worst inherent fear in humans, i guess it would be death, or maybe pain... but maybe its more than that. Maybe when introduced to ideas of demons this automatically gets put into our brains as (most feared thing) for us. As demons are the only "evil" beings we represent with surviving death, or existing after it, or meeting us there. Already dead beings, or devils... as everyone who has ever experienced night terrors can empathize with the unmovable unshakable intense feeling of dread and evil. The inability to talk or move anything but your eyes.

I really cant say what it is, personally... i think the similarities have everything to do with the most feared idea that humans have, or brings out the fears that we have the most, if the latter is the case, there must be many MANY out there who consider the idea of evil "dead" beings our subconscious's worst fear.

Here's a copy:
Over the centuries, symptoms of sleep paralysis have been described in many ways and often attributed to an "evil" presence: unseen night demons in ancient times, the old hag in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, and alien abductors. Almost every culture throughout history has had stories of shadowy evil creatures that terrify helpless humans at night. People have long sought explanations for this mysterious sleep-time paralysis and the accompanying feelings of terror.

Click to expand...

its interesting how we all have a mutual fear, i wonder if this would still occur if one was stripped of all prior culture. death is the biggest fear of man id expect, those who can live after death are probably even more horrifying to us, as theres nothing worse that could happen to these beings. ive had nightmares but i feel as if they were all about things i had heard prior, for example, i watched the texas chainsaw massacre and dreamed about being chased by a man with a chainsaw. i believe its all to blame on culture, if these things existed in our mind from the beginning, i believe everyone would be a lot more traumatized. although every culture seems to have some form of evil, i wonder how this all started.

Heisenberg said:

I realize this is out of context, but you may want to research what an evolutionist or a neuroscientist has to say about that.

Click to expand...

im on it, do you have any suggestions on where i should start? links would be highly appreciated, thanks again heisenburg.

Heisenberg said:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/reviving-the-10-brain-myth/

Click to expand...

interesting stuff, thanks for the info. makes sense although, different parts of our brain do have serve purposes, this i am aware of, but all of it cannot process at the same time. thats fascinating really, our brain has to be the most complex organ in nature.

and once again, i find myself unable to give rep when i really feel the need to.

• You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Heisenberg again.
  
  
  
  

Hazey, just the other day i got pretty baked, some really nice sensi buds... and i was riding in the passenger seat looking at how beautiful and mystical the sky and clouds look as the sun rays peer down from above, and i wondered what the fuck i would be thinking right now if i had never been introduced to religion or science at all. I wonder if i would make up my own ideas about what this all is, or would i just not care and continue to live in the moment every day. I think this was a good thought.

I remember thinking, man... if i knew nothing of science or religion, i bet i would make up some pretty cool stories about what those big white puff balls in the sky are... i might even imagine there are creatures living up there.

Zaehet Strife said:

Hazey, just the other day i got pretty baked, some really nice sensi buds... and i was riding in the passenger seat looking at how beautiful and mystical the sky and clouds look as the sun rays peer down from above, and i wondered what the fuck i would be thinking right now if i had never been introduced to religion or science at all. I wonder if i would make up my own ideas about what this all is, or would i just not care and continue to live in the moment every day. I think this was a good thought.

I remember thinking, man... if i knew nothing of science or religion, i bet i would make up some pretty cool stories about what those big white puff balls in the sky are... i might even imagine there are creatures living up there.

Click to expand...

its truly amazing to experience life without culture, just look at how a newborn baby looks at the sky. i think all of us would theorize many things to attempt to describe all of these beautiful things, but we've finally come to an age where we can know why these things happen. however i believe through the use of drugs like cannabis, DMT, or Psycholobin(i think i spelled that wrong), we can see things without these outside influences, if only for a second. i think thats what you experienced, ive found myself thinking the same thing after smoking a bowl of weed with some dmt sprinkled on top while stargazing, just how beautiful life is and how we let science simplify them. its amazing really, i dont know how to explain the feeling. i feel astonishment would fit it, but its something much more than that. maybe you could call it "overwhelmed by the beauty of nature". i see how this may lead to the feeling of a higher being, many cultures displayed this with the creation of religion. however the buddhists thought of it differently, and most of them knew how to make their minds access their pinneal glands through meditation. i feel as if they would know what life is without culture, they are truly one with nature.

It depends on how one chooses to define God. If we're talking about some omnipresent being who lovingly handcrafted us, guides us and takes an interest in our well-being, I would have to say I'm an Atheist. I find the idea of some higher power watching over us from above, handing down rules and regulations, praise and condemnation as something that humans have conjured up as kind of a security blanket. We raise our children, we teach them and love them and we want, sometimes need, to believe that someone other than our own parents have our best interests at heart and love us as we love our kids. I think without that feeling of parental guidance and care humans feel lost and alone. I think that personal belief system also fills a need for us to somehow dodge responsibility for our own actions. Something good happens and we give thanks to God. Something bad happens and it's the work of the devil.

Now, if we're talking about God as simply the act of creation I would consider myself a Pantheist. I believe in the almighty molecule, the atom, the particle, the big bang. Can I prove that some anthropomorphic God didn't wave a magic wand around and trigger the birth of the universe? No, I can't. It's possible we're simply a product of a random roll of the dice. I can tell you that with two years of advanced physics under my belt I've felt closer to the concept of God in a classroom than I ever did in any church.

Kronika said:

It depends on how one chooses to define God. If we're talking about some omnipresent being who lovingly handcrafted us, guides us and takes an interest in our well-being, I would have to say I'm an Atheist. I find the idea of some higher power watching over us from above, handing down rules and regulations, praise and condemnation as something that humans have conjured up as kind of a security blanket. We raise our children, we teach them and love them and we want, sometimes need, to believe that someone other than our own parents have our best interests at heart and love us as we love our kids. I think without that feeling of parental guidance and care humans feel lost and alone. I think that personal belief system also fills a need for us to somehow dodge responsibility for our own actions. Something good happens and we give thanks to God. Something bad happens and it's the work of the devil.

Now, if we're talking about God as simply the act of creation I would consider myself a Pantheist. I believe in the almighty molecule, the atom, the particle, the big bang. Can I prove that some anthropomorphic God didn't wave a magic wand around and trigger the birth of the universe? No, I can't. It's possible we're simply a product of a random roll of the dice. I can tell you that with two years of advanced physics under my belt I've felt closer to the concept of God in a classroom than I ever did in any church.

Click to expand...

exactly how i feel honestly, the idea of god is just a way to feel as if someones watching over you. everything youve said basically sums up how i feel about religion and the existence of a higher being.

crazyhazey said:

exactly how i feel honestly, the idea of god is just a way to feel as if someones watching over you. everything youve said basically sums up how i feel about religion and the existence of a higher being.

Click to expand...

I can see the appeal of it.. I mean hell, we all want to feel special and loved. But I don't believe that way of religious thinking holds much merit. I'm a speck on a speck floating in a vast sea of specks and I'm okay with that. I think everyone else could be too if they opened their eyes.

Btw, your avatar is rockin. And you're a fellow Floridian too!

Kronika said:

It depends on how one chooses to define God. If we're talking about some omnipresent being who lovingly handcrafted us, guides us and takes an interest in our well-being, I would have to say I'm an Atheist. I find the idea of some higher power watching over us from above, handing down rules and regulations, praise and condemnation as something that humans have conjured up as kind of a security blanket. We raise our children, we teach them and love them and we want, sometimes need, to believe that someone other than our own parents have our best interests at heart and love us as we love our kids. I think without that feeling of parental guidance and care humans feel lost and alone. I think that personal belief system also fills a need for us to somehow dodge responsibility for our own actions. Something good happens and we give thanks to God. Something bad happens and it's the work of the devil.

Now, if we're talking about God as simply the act of creation I would consider myself a Pantheist. I believe in the almighty molecule, the atom, the particle, the big bang. Can I prove that some anthropomorphic God didn't wave a magic wand around and trigger the birth of the universe? No, I can't. It's possible we're simply a product of a random roll of the dice. I can tell you that with two years of advanced physics under my belt I've felt closer to the concept of God in a classroom than I ever did in any church.

Click to expand...

...have you read anything on panentheism?

I do believe that there's something more than what has been proven, I don't believe that god is like a person or a being, I think that God is an idea. Idea that can change your life no matter if you truly understand it's meaning. You see, people need something to believe in, not everyone but alot of them need it, they need some purpose to fulfill. I have a relative, that was alright, then he got sick, could say he almost died, then he started praying, going to church, believing, and he got better.
He waited for help, and he helped himself, through the idea of god. Think about the bible, such and old book, with alot of hidden truth. Even if there is no "god", the person who wrote the book was a genius. There are many thoughts about the world, the universe that have only been proven now. How could people know it then?
End of my post

Kronika said:

I can see the appeal of it.. I mean hell, we all want to feel special and loved. But I don't believe that way of religious thinking holds much merit. I'm a speck on a speck floating in a vast sea of specks and I'm okay with that. I think everyone else could be too if they opened their eyes.

Btw, your avatar is rockin. And you're a fellow Floridian too!

Click to expand...

yeah, i think someone from a broken family would really seek a higher being and turn to religion. and that it doesnt, religion has no science behind it really just, just a set of beliefs given by someone who was believe to be more enlightened, nothing could really be solved when thinking religiously. and i also find it to be fine, almost comforting, to know were just floating through life with no real goal, all we know thats gonna happen for sure is death, but all that means is everyday is gonna differ from the last and we never know whats coming ahead. that excites me, but seems to really scare others. i just cant see myself believe in an after life either, those who do dont look forward to living a meaningful life at all, rather revolving their lives around gaining access to this "VIP section" in the sky, if that doesn't sound like a scam then i dont know what does.

and thanks, those are words i live by lol. and yup, im right in the middle of this shit, next to disney world and all that other shit tourist seem to love so much. gotta love the asshole cops and rascist old people.

dc4 said:

I do believe that there's something more than what has been proven, I don't believe that god is like a person or a being, I think that God is an idea. Idea that can change your life no matter if you truly understand it's meaning. You see, people need something to believe in, not everyone but alot of them need it, they need some purpose to fulfill. I have a relative, that was alright, then he got sick, could say he almost died, then he started praying, going to church, believing, and he got better.
He waited for help, and he helped himself, through the idea of god. Think about the bible, such and old book, with alot of hidden truth. Even if there is no "god", the person who wrote the book was a genius. There are many thoughts about the world, the universe that have only been proven now. How could people know it then?
End of my post

Click to expand...

scroll down to post #112, im pretty sure its the only video on here but thats the closest thing id call god, or some sort of creator. who created this magnificent thing, who knows, possibly it created itself somehow. its cool that he got better, a little bit of hope can go pretty far but we shouldnt need religion to inspire us to keep going with life, we all have a purpose, you shouldnt let the church take your limited life and call that your purpose. the worse thing you could do while theres so much going on in our world is go somewhere that restricts outside thinking, better yet they look down on outside thinking. they want you to thank someone you dont know for things you had before you knew of him, thanking someone for your whole life isnt purpose to me, thats a waste. go help the people who need help, prayin aint gonna do shit.
i wish people would stop thanking god for their meals, if i said grace before any of my meals it would go somethin like this,
"get the fuck out of my dining room and go help the kid that has cancer down the street". like kronika said, when something good happens, god did it, when something bad happens, its the work of the devil. its all bullshit, and its all for power and money. our government has let it really dig in to our everyday lives, our culture has many dominantly christian attributes unfortunately. but im getting off track, many people wrote that book, and altered it. yes, there are some morals, even ill admit that, though nothing you couldnt learn from any other book or rather by experiencing life. treat ones how you would like to be treated is all common sense, id rather treat someone better than theyd treat me to be honest, yet im no theist. they only made religion because some people wanted answers, we have the answers now yet we still use this prehistoric bullshit to live by, they even killed people for disproving them. thats just misuse of power, if jesus did exist and he came back, he would be ashamed of the church.

I agree with you, and i hate the type of people thanking for everything. I once even helped alot someone like that, and after all that they said: Thank god he sent you here. Damn, he didn't send me, I helped because I wanted to be a good person. It was annoying as fuck.
I don't need religion to motivate myself, but people are weak, you know?
And how can the people in church say that they are " closer to the god " and that we can " talk to god through them" ? Dafuq is all that bullshit?
People believe because they want answers, but i think that religion was made by those who wanted to control others, make them stay away from thinking for themselves.
hazey, but do you actually know that there are texts in the bible that prove facts about universe that were discovered only a few years ago? I wasn't talking about "be nice and people will be nice to you" - things. Tho i can't recall what theories and stuff are in there, oh believe me they are.


Edit: The universe is amazing. It's like a toy that I would never throw away. (about that nebula video) - But if these things are light years away, what we are seeing is what was happening a long time ago.

dc4 said:

I agree with you, and i hate the type of people thanking for everything. I once even helped alot someone like that, and after all that they said: Thank god he sent you here. Damn, he didn't send me, I helped because I wanted to be a good person. It was annoying as fuck.
I don't need religion to motivate myself, but people are weak, you know?
And how can the people in church say that they are " closer to the god " and that we can " talk to god through them" ? Dafuq is all that bullshit?
People believe because they want answers, but i think that religion was made by those who wanted to control others, make them stay away from thinking for themselves.
hazey, but do you actually know that there are texts in the bible that prove facts about universe that were discovered only a few years ago? I wasn't talking about "be nice and people will be nice to you" - things. Tho i can't recall what theories and stuff are in there, oh believe me they are.


Edit: The universe is amazing. It's like a toy that I would never throw away. (about that nebula video) - But if these things are light years away, what we are seeing is what was happening a long time ago.

Click to expand...

you see what im saying, im glad you know religion is more of a crutch than anything. and i guess, all depends how you interpret it. if they said something on point, rather than being extremely vague(leaving your interpretation to lets say, fill in the blanks) i would believe it. im pretty sure that nebula's still goin, may have to do some research but im pretty sure it, or something like it is out there, if thats happening at all, in our vast universe it must be happening in more than one place, you know? if that thing is dead by now, or nonexistent would be a better word, theres no doubt theres another out there. its truly amazing to know thats happening though, if that was mentioned in the bible, i may actually look into it.

crazyhazey said:

its interesting how we all have a mutual fear, i wonder if this would still occur if one was stripped of all prior culture. death is the biggest fear of man id expect, those who can live after death are probably even more horrifying to us, as theres nothing worse that could happen to these beings. ive had nightmares but i feel as if they were all about things i had heard prior, for example, i watched the texas chainsaw massacre and dreamed about being chased by a man with a chainsaw. i believe its all to blame on culture, if these things existed in our mind from the beginning, i believe everyone would be a lot more traumatized. although every culture seems to have some form of evil, i wonder how this all started.

Click to expand...

perhaps from the earliest times of humankind it could stem from primal fears,before we had the contextual evil in which we could put base images in the subjective manner we have had for thousands of years now,there had to be the fight or flight mechanism which if a human survived a traumatic experience the worst fears come through the mind like being eaten alive by a huge bear,or being mawed to death by lions,bitten by snakes etc,I speak of the hunter/gatherer era because thats as far back before actual culture started becoming prevailent,I could be wrong though,but my point is, is that could have been the start of elder surviving people determining these things to be evils when they happened,In a more than likely manner they were reveared for their experiences and advice to the younger people in those tribes,so it could be plausible as a beginning of commonly perceived evil.Just my 2 cents though.

Dislexicmidget2021 said:

perhaps from the earliest times of humankind it could stem from primal fears,before we had the contextual evil in which we could put base images in the subjective manner we have had for thousands of years now,there had to be the fight or flight mechanism which if a human survived a traumatic experience the worst fears come through the mind like being eaten alive by a huge bear,or being mawed to death by lions,bitten by snakes etc,I speak of the hunter/gatherer era because thats as far back before actual culture started becoming prevailent,I could be wrong though,but my point is, is that could have been the start of elder surviving people determining these things to be evils when they happened,In a more than likely manner they were reveared for their experiences and advice to the younger people in those tribes,so it could be plausible as a beginning of commonly perceived evil.Just my 2 cents though.

Click to expand...

yes, i believe any type of death is going to be perceived as evil really, theres other scenarios however some may not find explainable. being afraid of a predator is just an adaptation, means of survival. im speaking of demons, abnormalities, etc. i dont think we would see these things depending on our imagination probably. our mind does think out many scenarios however, so anything could be possible. i suppose this is also the reason for things like ESP, or deja-vu.

eye exaggerate said:

...have you read anything on panentheism?

Click to expand...

Not to any significant degree I'm afraid. I do know that pantheism and panentheism run parallel to one another up to a point, with the major difference being that panentheists recognize God as also being separate from the universe and not just of it. It loses me there.