Proposed Grow: 3 Generation Violator Kush Ebb & Flow Grow

Hey all, I just want to thank everybody for the information on this site. This is an unbelievable educational resource and I would like to contribute to the body of information. This is my first grow and I'm very nervous lol. The purpose of my journal is two-fold: I would love all comments and suggestions from the gardeners with more experience than me, and I would like to help those who haven't grown yet.

At this point I'd like to recommend my main resource tool, which is Marijuana Horticulture: The Indoor/Outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes. This has helped me so much in my research and development. I would recommend it to everybody.

The proposed length of this journal is three generations with the first generation being my seeds, then 2 mothers and 24 clones, ending in 3 mothers and 36 clones. This will keep me under 40 plants which is relevant due to the laws in my state. Even if I don't complete the journal for all three generations, I will definitely complete the first generation's journal from seed to smoke.

To begin with, I ordered 10 feminized Violator Kush's from Barney's Farm by way of Attitude Seedbank. Seed ordering and delivery was very professional and I received my shipment within 5 business days. Contents included:

10 feminized Violator Kush seeds
1 free Industrial Plant seed
1 free Super Silver Haze seed

The Kush is mostly indica and was chosen because it is easily grown indoors. I am seriously considering turning the Haze into a mother as well due to the sativa influences and the germination of a healthy sprout. I will decide whether or not to choose it as a mother based on the first 8 weeks of vegging. Total price was $114

I was very hesitant to begin this journal because of the increased risk but I wanted to remind everybody that what we are doing is not wrong. We are hobbyists and non-violent gardeners. By growing these seeds, I am ensuring a healthy strain for the future and in the process teaching others to do the same. So join in on my civil disobedience and welcome to my journal!

I began germination on Sunday, July 17th and most of the seeds have since germinated. To begin with, I'll provide the information on what I have gotten to begin my garden. My first shopping trip included

1 Gallon flat white paint - $20

1 roll poly sheeting - $25

1 4' 32w T8 fluorescent lighting fixture with 1 cool white bulb and 1 warm white bulb
$50

1 Mechanical Timer - Free from my friendly hydro store

1 Seed Germination kit with hydroponic riot rooters - $25

1 Heating pad - $23

10 5.5 inch net pots - $12

pH Up and pH Down - $22

1 54 gall Rubbermaid Roughtote Reservoir - $22

1 Xtrasun 400w Metal Halide bulb, reflector, and ballast - $200

1 50L bag Hydroton - $35

1 Combination digital pH, temp, and ppm meter - $120

Nutrients are - Botanicare CNS 17 Grow and Bloom - $20

Total - $574

I plan on making my own Ebb and Flow tables at a later date.

I intend to grow in the seedling stage for 3 weeks, vegetative state in E&F table for 5 weeks, and flower in 4' x 4' E&F table under 600w HPS lighting for 8 weeks in 2 separate rooms. I intend to take clones and veg separately so I will have a continual harvest every 8 weeks. Germination didn't go as expected already lol but I do have some healthy sprouts!

Here we are...on to germination. I soaked my seeds overnight in rain water and planted them in my riot rooters on Sunday, July 17th. The industrial plant sprouted right away and had tiny leaves by Tuesday, July 19th quickly followed by the Super Silver the next day.

The Kush germination was not as successful. Firstly I had one sprout force itself out of the riot rooter and I had to replant yesterday, it looks much better today. I have 4 healthy sprouts, 3 who are slightly slower but coming along, and 3 who have not sprouted at all. These 3 are currently in paper towels in my closet and after some scarification I hope they sprout.

I placed them under the fluorescent lighting 6" above the seedlings with a light stage of 18 hours on and 6 hours off. Hours are 6 a.m. to 12 a.m. on. I caught you guys up to my grow and I am hoping for some advise on how to get my 3 slow seeds to germinate!

Oh also, if anybody would like me to explain how I wired my lighting fixture to an extension cord, I'll be happy to explain.

Update:

I lowered my lights to 2" above the plants and I trained a very small fan on the plants to the point where the leaves are slightly rustling. The added fan has dried out the rooting cubes a little bit faster so I have watered slightly more. I woke up this morning with one seedling leaning over and one which fell completely. I attribute this to under watering because they perked right up after I gave them water. Gonna have to keep an eye on that.

In general, I'm very disappointed with the seed quality from Barney's Farm as they can't compare to the size, growth, and strength of the free seeds from attitude. Out of frustration I ordered 10 feminized Super Cheese seeds from Royal Genetics and will probably decide to germinate them in a couple weeks.

The Industrial and Super Silver are both doing wonderfully with 2 sets of true leaves in and definite growth on a third set. Inter-nodal spacing is good with no stretching. Ironically, the kush seed which forced itself out of the cube and had to be replanted is now the healthiest of the remaining 6 kush plants. The kush plants are all working on their second set of nodes and noticeably behind in growth compared to the other seedlings.

Update! A few things have progressed

So it's the first of the month and my roommate left so I now have full access to my future grow room! I began to tape up some poly sheeting to the windows for both security and hygienic reasons. The duct tape isn't sticking to the walls so I'm gonna use push pins instead. I mapped out a decent outline of my large ebb and flow tables as well as some plans for a 2 x 4 frame and plastic wall to separate my veg room. Next step is cleaning, painting, and pinning but I injured my back cliff diving and need a few days to rest lol.

In the mean time my seedlings are coming along. I am definitely learning with these first seedlings. I noticed some yellowing tips from one plant and a very slight yellowing of another. The only possibility I can come up with is water related. I believe it's the chlorine in my tap water. I did let the water sit for a day before using it but I don't believe it all evaporated. I switched to distilled water 3 days ago and things seem to be moving along nicely.

This brings me to my third point which is, I got my lemon haze seeds today! I intend on dragging these seeds behind by 4 weeks and give them the dedicated attention they deserve. they will have a dedicated grow room, and a gardener who learned not to feed seedlings chlorinated water haha. I am, in fact, happy with my kush seedlings, but this is my ace in the hole to ensure a proper first harvest.

I'd like to ask anybody more experienced than me (re: just about everyone) what is going on with my plants! OK I have a nice before and after shot of the large one that is curling up and straight dying. It was fine, then I noticed some slight mold on my rooting cubes so I decided not to water for one day and I trained a fan on it. The next day, the plant is a shriveled up little crone of Mary Jane. I think my humidity is way off. I would know it's off but I don't have a hygrometer yet so I can only suspect. I bought a spray bottle and I misted the plants this morning.

I also started a slight feeding with roots organic fertilizer at 175 ppm, honestly just to see if it helps. Plants are 16 days old and looks like very stunted growth. Please help!

In grow room news, I put together my 400w MH and began construction on my first ebb and flow table which was meant for these retard seedlings...At this point I'm just at a loss and thinking of starting over.

Whats he temp in your room? seedlings like a constant 80 degrees, light should be on 18 hrs minimum and temp needs to be controlled after lights out (if its 80 under the lights it needs to be 80 when the lighs are off)

The other posibility is that the mat is too warm or the humidity is too low, spritsing them 2-3 times per day should help if you are not already doing it, if you are it may be over watering, the grow medium shouldnt be soaked all the time, allow it to get a bit dry if its dripping.

Last but not least, what is your ph? if those seedlings are in wool blocks they need to be lowered a bit, wool blocks have a slightly higher ph than is optimal at the start and can burn seedlings.

I see you germed the Industrial plant and haze you got from ordering the Violator Kush, scrub the industrial plant, its friggin disgusting, low thc (12% or so) and it takes up a bunch of room that you cant afford with a 400w. the haze is nice but plan to tie it down, it will tower over the VK and block needed lumens.

All in all your grow looks only a bit stunted, very light nutes if any til 3rd set of leaves and you will recover quickly.

For more info on growing or to reach me more directly my grows can be found at http://vermontmedicalmarijuana.webs.com/apps/forums/show/5820320-show-us-your-grow-

good luck!

Hey progrow, thanks for responding. To answer your questions, temp ranges from 72-75, the seedlings are no longer on a heat mat, and I have begun misting the plants and room since my last post. I water once a day and am certain I'm not over watering because the cubes are dry and separate from the tray walls sometimes. Either way, the plants are looking MUCH better now! My pH ranges from 5.8-6.2 and trying to dial that in. I do have a question though, should I adjust my pH daily or let it range up and down as it wants to for a week?

My silver haze was the one that dried up and even though there is new growth on it, it is still stunted and I may consider throwing it out. Thanks for the info on the industrial plant, I'll probably scrub both of them.

OK on to new developments. My room is painted, taped, and plastic wrapped, I have tested my veg ebb and flow table, and installed all the lights and furniture that I need for the short term, until I flower. I plan on transplanting to net pots next Wednesday and start my lemon haze seeds at that point. I believe my problem with this grow was my lack of nutrients. They began to yellow faster than what I believed they needed nutrients from what I read. It was about 13 days from sprout that they started to yellow and i just needed to start them on a nutrient schedule. As of right now, they are on 200 ppm roots organic and 400 ppm cns 17 grow formula totaling 600 ppm at pH 6.

Growth is definitely noticeable! These plants have come back nicely and I believe I have finally gotten them stabilized. Here are some pics!

Hey hey,
Looking good, seems you may have pulled out of the nosedive you were in. The light nutes seem to be working, keep it up, the room temp is about 7 degrees lower than you want, not a big deal but vegging plants like around 80 degrees with 50-60% humidity, the yellowing may have been from no nutes but your ph is also a bit low, between 6 and 7 is prime, i keep seedlings and vegging plants at around 6.3 then when i push flower i bring it up to around 6.5, best nute uptake for most plants is 6.3 but i grow a strain that likes 6.5, check out the info from the seed company and do what they say, thats usually a good bet. I imagine you are ph'ing smaller amounts of water for now and that can be tricky, when ph'ing for seeds i use an eye dropper to get as close to optimum as i can, once you are using your eb/flow ph will be easier to handle as the resevior is bigger etc. Last but not least, you are using a ppm meter i assume, thats a great way to start and most american growers use that for of mesure but mostly because ppm meters are cheaper than ec meters (electrical conductivity), if price is not an issue i would pick up an ec meter and use it along side your ppm meter for your first grow, you may notice that some days your ppm will read one thing and ec another, this is because in the long run ec is more accurate, actual parts per million can change and your ppm meter may not pick that up but an ec meter will, this is advanced grower stuff and not really that important unless you start working with strains that like a tighter curve, some of the more exotic strains will get "all mad" if nutes and ph arent perfect.
Last question; do you plan on growing straight, trimming or scrogging? In my experience when only working with one light a scrog is the best way to go, being able to control the canopy will garuantee higher yields, multiple plants under one light will give great colas and not much underbrush because of light degradation and shadows, i currently have 2 plants going under one hps (vermonts limit for flowering plants is 2) and am using a V shaped scrog to turn a 2x4 foot area into 2x7 feet of canopy, my last harvest using this method was over 14oz, decent but i think i can do even better, check out some scrogs if you havn't already and tell me what u think.

Hey pro, yes the plants have definitely recovered and are doing very well. I see some good mother candidates already. I was told ph for hydro should be 5.8 but I will let it rise some to see how the plants perform. Yes, my res is currently a gallon and I'm transplanting this Wednesday into my table with a 7 gallon res. Pics to come shortly!

I do have a 3 part meter with ec, I just haven't gotten around to learning it since most advice seems to be in ppm format. My growth plan is low stress training to keep my canopy low and uniform, but if need be I'll make a screen as well. That's awesome that you were able to harvest that much! Congrats!

And a general question for the forum, should I transplant my mothers into soil, Dwc, Or some other method?

I leave my mothers in soil so they dont get out of control, on 20 hours of florescent light they will wanna go crazy in dwc or ebb/flow, in 3 or 4 months you will have an 8 ft behemoth, with soil you can control the size by root binding, using a 1 gal pot you can take all the clone you want and not waste space, thats my experience at least, i have seen peoplethat keep mothers in ebb/flow but use no hydroton so the roots have no real place to hang out.

maybe somone else has a different experience? i will post this thread around other forums and see what we get.

Week 5 - Veg Time!

So the plants seem to be doing very well, and it's time to transplant! I have transplanted them into 6 inch net pots with hydroton and put them in my improvised ebb and flow table. I intend to make a better one when I have a full scale grow and I need to veg 36 plants total. As of right now, I have 8 plants with 10 following right behind hopefully. So this table will be fine for the current generation.

As for some of the details, I'm using 400 w MH 18" above the plants. I'm using botanicare grow formula at 750 ppm, pH 6.2. My reservoir was running a little hot at 85, so I put a gallon of frozen water to chill to 73 degrees.

One plant seemed to react negatively to the transplanting and it's acting droopy lol. I staked it up and misted it, hopefully it will bounce back. The rest of the plants are not exhibiting any stress as of yet. Here are some pictures!

As for my mother, I was leaning towards soil as well since I have some already and it seems to be more stable as well.

oh, I also forgot to mention my irrigation schedule. I'm irrigating 4 times a day for 15 minutes each at 8 a.m. 12 p.m. 4 p.m. and 8 p.m. It seems like irrigation is still more of an art than science...for other growers, what is your personal irrigation schedule and grow medium?

Lookin good, those seedlings are nice and bushy already. I like your improvised table, my one question is how does it fully drain? from the looks of it there will always be a half inch to inch of water in the bottom, i may just be looking at it funny but if there is stagnant water you will quickly get mold as im sure you know, would love to see more pics of how you are fully draining it.
4 ties a day for 15 min at a time might be overkill, keep a close eye on your hydroton moisture, if the clay stays wet all the time you could run into some root rot, for my water farms i run the pump 3 times a day, once at 8 am, another at 1 pm and last at 730 pm (arbitrary times really). Ebb/flow setups that i have seen have been similar, watering with lights off can shock plants as water temp is considerably lower, somthing to think about durring flower scheduel. otherwise really clean setup, thats always nice to see, your on the right track quickly it seems.

Nope, it drains completely. I know it's important not to have stagnant water. It's completely gravity drained. The hole in the side is my overflow and I have a smaller hole in the bottom that drains it completely. I took those photos in the process of draining. I pump for ten minutes, and it drains in 5. Ya, like I said irrigation seems to be more art form, my local hydro shop guy recommended 4 times at 15 minutes, so we will see! Tomorrow I will take more pictures of the drainage.

The one plant that exhibited transplant stress perked right back up in a half hour. So happy to say all is well, and looking forward to an expected growth spurt!

Here is a better view of the table drainage, and a pic of my two strongest babies!

Very nice, Thank you for the pics of your drainage, lookin really good so far, after a bit of reading i saw that most people vegging in ebb/flow are running 4 floods a day. at 18-20 hrs of light, and with the amount of hydroton you have in your net pots thats a good idea, i use water farms and they retain alot more water in the pellets because they are so close to the resevoir, evaperation happens slower etc thats why im running 3 times a day.
I'm really impressed by the bushyness of your seedlings, keeping that light low seems to be paying off, i do the same but i often see threads where peoples seedlings are several inches tall with still only 1 set of little leaves and it makes me a sad panda, keep up the great work, i'm excited to see your grow in the comming weeks months.

Week 6

Going for 9 weeks total of veg and then into the flower room! Too bad the flower room hasn't been built yet! So, I guess I'm into the boring veg time, or at least I hope so cuz i've had enough catastrophes so far this grow. Everybody on the east coast like that earthquake yesterday??

Anyway, as for my updates, I germed my lemon haze seeds which have all popped!! and my VK's are plodding along just fine.



They're getting bushy





Here is a pic of my soon to be new seedlings.



And a bonus picture of how much these plants have grown in 7 days!

Oh I did want to mention that due to my ebb and flow table, I have to leave the water exposed to light and that is causing an explosion of algae and bacteria. Unfortunately I have to empty and clean my reservoir every 4 days to keep my water fresh and clean. It's more work and an added expense with nutes, but it's obviously working until I can build a permanent veg table.