Potassium Deficiency or Overwatering?

Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
There is zero need to check runoff in FFOF.

Let me just give you a more straightforward approach.
Overwatering can cause this leaf issue. They do appear smaller than they should be also. Potassium and Nitrogen can become antagonistic from overwatering. Notice the pale leaf.

Here is what i would do. I run FFOF in my layered mixes and it is pretty fool proof alone. Add 3-4 cups of fresh FFOF to each container ( top dress ) . Till into topsoil. Water it in with straight tap. The broscience around water gasoff ( chlorine ) isn’t quite all true - plants will utilize chlorine .

What other plant needs someone to do this ?

The top dress will “ recharge “ that base mix in container. Although to me that amount of previous soil should have been enough to carry most plants , it seems that it is deficient ( leached ) and plant is struggling to pull from it.

A topdress is faster than adding dry fertilizer right now … since dry fertilizer needs time to breakdown. Later after things right themselves you can feed from dry.

The leaves in question will not recover , you are only trying to stop progression. Led lights do not provide enough IR under most circumstances- raising lights on temps ( 80’s ) will bump up transpiration and keep root base warmer. Then cooler night temps will allow metabolism of daytime energy that plant got.

I never ph my water when using FFOF. However if your municipal water sources are really pushing 9 then a slight tweak downward is fine. Citric acid powder ( available in bulk - cheaper ) can be sourced anywhere. No reason to fall prey to “ cannabis labeled “ nonsense.

GL
 
jimbonorman

jimbonorman

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
There is zero need to check runoff in FFOF.

Let me just give you a more straightforward approach.
Overwatering can cause this leaf issue. They do appear smaller than they should be also. Potassium and Nitrogen can become antagonistic from overwatering. Notice the pale leaf.

Here is what i would do. I run FFOF in my layered mixes and it is pretty fool proof alone. Add 3-4 cups of fresh FFOF to each container ( top dress ) . Till into topsoil. Water it in with straight tap. The broscience around water gasoff ( chlorine ) isn’t quite all true - plants will utilize chlorine .

What other plant needs someone to do this ?

The top dress will “ recharge “ that base mix in container. Although to me that amount of previous soil should have been enough to carry most plants , it seems that it is deficient ( leached ) and plant is struggling to pull from it.

A topdress is faster than adding dry fertilizer right now … since dry fertilizer needs time to breakdown. Later after things right themselves you can feed from dry.

The leaves in question will not recover , you are only trying to stop progression. Led lights do not provide enough IR under most circumstances- raising lights on temps ( 80’s ) will bump up transpiration and keep root base warmer. Then cooler night temps will allow metabolism of daytime energy that plant got.

I never ph my water when using FFOF. However if your municipal water sources are really pushing 9 then a slight tweak downward is fine. Citric acid powder ( available in bulk - cheaper ) can be sourced anywhere. No reason to fall prey to “ cannabis labeled “ nonsense.

GL
Click to expand...
Thanks @Budzbuddha! I like your idea to top dress with more FFOF.

Sounds like you're leaning towards overwatering and thus a nute deficiency issue caused by leaching, is that right? It's worth mentioning that (if it is overwatering) it might not be quantity-based but more so frequency-based. I just haven't been flooding these pots yet due to their size - I've started wetting the entire pot in the last week or so but the runoff has been quite minimal...FWIW. This is one of the reasons why I've hypothesized it was an underwatering issue ever since I used the Blumats on vacation. The leaf issues started while they were getting water from Blumats for 10 days and the dirt was fresh at that point. I had two spikes per 5 gal bucket and still haven't figured out if that was too much or too little...
 
secretmicrogrow420

secretmicrogrow420

Well-Known Member
eh i tried FFOF and i always had to add fertilizer very early on in the plants life.

for example this picture was taken on 04/02/2023 and it was the first time that i gave my plant fertilizer i gave it a micro grow bloom 3 part base i mixed 2.5ml of micro, 2.5ml of grow, and 2.5ml of bloom into 3 liters of RO water
4223.jpg
here is the plant on 04/12/2023 10 days later and yes i put it into a 3 gallon pot of FFOF and i still had too add fertilizer early on in the plants life
41223.jpg

honestly i dont like FFOF soil i always needed too add fertilizer once a week to the damn thing.

a soil that i love is called "Recipe 420" just mix some perlite into it and your good too go.

with recipe 420 soil i never really needed fertilizer the only down side is it doesnt have perlite.

but with fox farms ocean forest i always needed fertilizer.
 
jimbonorman

jimbonorman

Well-Known Member
secretmicrogrow420 said:
eh i tried FFOF and i always had to add fertilizer very early on in the plants life.

for example this picture was taken on 04/02/2023 and it was the first time that i gave my plant fertilizer i gave it a micro grow bloom 3 part base i mixed 2.5ml of micro, 2.5ml of grow, and 2.5ml of bloom into 3 liters of RO water
View attachment 5364267
here is the plant on 04/12/2023 10 days later and yes i put it into a 3 gallon pot of FFOF and i still had too add fertilizer early on in the plants life
View attachment 5364270

honestly i dont like FFOF soil i always needed too add fertilizer once a week to the damn thing.

a soil that i love is called "Recipe 420" just mix some perlite into it and your good too go.

with recipe 420 soil i never really needed fertilizer the only down side is it doesnt have perlite.

but with fox farms ocean forest i always needed fertilizer.
Click to expand...
This is good to know - thanks for sharing!
 
jimbonorman

jimbonorman

Well-Known Member
secretmicrogrow420 said:
eh i tried FFOF and i always had to add fertilizer very early on in the plants life.

for example this picture was taken on 04/02/2023 and it was the first time that i gave my plant fertilizer i gave it a micro grow bloom 3 part base i mixed 2.5ml of micro, 2.5ml of grow, and 2.5ml of bloom into 3 liters of RO water
View attachment 5364267
here is the plant on 04/12/2023 10 days later and yes i put it into a 3 gallon pot of FFOF and i still had too add fertilizer early on in the plants life
View attachment 5364270

honestly i dont like FFOF soil i always needed too add fertilizer once a week to the damn thing.

a soil that i love is called "Recipe 420" just mix some perlite into it and your good too go.

with recipe 420 soil i never really needed fertilizer the only down side is it doesnt have perlite.

but with fox farms ocean forest i always needed fertilizer.
Click to expand...
This the one?

EB Stone Recipie 420 Organic inchRecharge inch Fertilizer 6-8-4,4lb. https://a.co/d/7TsNGt4
 
LewberDewber852

LewberDewber852

Well-Known Member
Soil biology needs to be alive and active to do its job and feed your plant. You don’t feed your plant in living soil. You feed your soil which in turn feeds your plant and everything else living in your soil.
Your on the right track I think but everybody's situation is unique.
 
Fallguy111

Fallguy111

Well-Known Member
I recommend top dressing ffof on week one. I’ve never had a good outcome when I’ve tried ph’ing my water. I’d use compost tea and/or fish shit to help quickly. I also add mag every other water and up calcium amendments since switching to led
 
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LewberDewber852

LewberDewber852

Well-Known Member
Fallguy111 said:
I recommend top dressing ffof on week one. I’ve never had a good outcome when I’ve tried ph’ing my water. I’d use compost tea and/or fish shit to help quickly. I also add mag every water and up calcium amendments since switching to led
Click to expand...
Interesting. Yea top dressing goes a long way. I’ve been liking my new coir “mulch” covers this run.
Agreed on outcome after ph’ing water. What do you use for mag amendment and cal amendments?
My tap is well and very heavy and full of whatever is in my surrounding earth lol
I’ve solely top dressed this run in FFOF and only thing I’ve added to the initial mix was langbeinite. Have top dressed with FFOF and a pinch of 4-4-4.
Not perfect but so far I’m happy.
OP were these clones or seed? Sorry I may have missed that part.
The following pics at where they started to where they are. Maple Leaf clones root bound and long overdue for transplant in coco transferred to the above explained environment. Transplanted 11-30 and flipped to 12/12 on 12-23.
IMG_0908.jpegIMG_1330.jpegIMG_1316.jpeg
just was watering as these pics were taken.
Not tryin to rob ur post just sharing.
Temps have been 77-82 (day and night) and 50-65 rh. I’ve noticed an improvement this run by keep my climate steady tbh.
 
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secretmicrogrow420

secretmicrogrow420

Well-Known Member
jimbonorman said:
This the one?

EB Stone Recipie 420 Organic inchRecharge inch Fertilizer 6-8-4,4lb. https://a.co/d/7TsNGt4
Click to expand...
that is not the one that is the same company that makes recipe 420 but thats theyre fertilizer,
but a bag of recipe420 soil and a bag of perlite is all you need that soil is amazing! you will notice that it looks way different than FFOF.

here is link to eb stone recipe 420 potting soil for 13.99 a bag
1.5 cu ft bag of recipe 420
 
Fallguy111

Fallguy111

Well-Known Member
LewberDewber852 said:
Interesting. Yea top dressing goes a long way. I’ve been liking my new coir “mulch” covers this run.
Agreed on outcome after ph’ing water. What do you use for mag amendment and cal amendments?
My tap is well and very heavy and full of whatever is in my surrounding earth lol
I’ve solely top dressed this run in FFOF and only thing I’ve added to the initial mix was langbeinite. Have top dressed with FFOF and a pinch of 4-4-4.
Not perfect but so far I’m happy.
OP were these clones or seed? Sorry I may have missed that part.
The following pics at where they started to where they are. Maple Leaf clones root bound and long overdue for transplant in coco transferred to the above explained environment. Transplanted 11-30 and flipped to 12/12 on 12-23.
View attachment 5364299View attachment 5364300View attachment 5364301
just was watering as these pics were taken.
Not tryin to rob ur post just sharing.
Temps have been 77-82 (day and night) and 50-65 rh. I’ve noticed an improvement this run by keep my climate steady tbh.
Click to expand...
Do you let it dryback much? Looks overwatered
 
LewberDewber852

LewberDewber852

Well-Known Member
Fallguy111 said:
Do you let it dryback much? Looks overwatered
Click to expand...
I think I may have overwatered when I was vegging bf the roots filled out these 7gals. Although I’ve been judging by weight. But typically 3 days or so. Lst time I watered bf today was Saturday. Tops inch or so bone dry but a bit more consistent with the covers these past couple weeks.
In these pics I got the soil damp bf the pics were taken. For irrigation i use a pump sprayer and mist until the pots are hard to move and sweat a little run off like maybe a few ozs. Takes forever but I enjoy tent time :bigjoint:
Different mothers but same cultivar. One has smaller leaves and broader spacing where the other is more stout. Small leaf is perky but leafs burn/rust from the outer edges in. Stout chica has some wrinkly stuff that’s been goin on for weeks and leafs rust from the center out..random leafs so immobile from excess of something is my guess but I honestly am not sure..
again don’t wanna high jack or pull attention away from OPs thing just sharing as I am all in on ffof soil (indoors anyway) and have been the past few years. Learning stuff every grow. If this helps great! If not then not lol
K.I.S.S
 
jimbonorman

jimbonorman

Well-Known Member
LewberDewber852 said:
Interesting. Yea top dressing goes a long way. I’ve been liking my new coir “mulch” covers this run.
Agreed on outcome after ph’ing water. What do you use for mag amendment and cal amendments?
My tap is well and very heavy and full of whatever is in my surrounding earth lol
I’ve solely top dressed this run in FFOF and only thing I’ve added to the initial mix was langbeinite. Have top dressed with FFOF and a pinch of 4-4-4.
Not perfect but so far I’m happy.
OP were these clones or seed? Sorry I may have missed that part.
The following pics at where they started to where they are. Maple Leaf clones root bound and long overdue for transplant in coco transferred to the above explained environment. Transplanted 11-30 and flipped to 12/12 on 12-23.
View attachment 5364299View attachment 5364300View attachment 5364301
just was watering as these pics were taken.
Not tryin to rob ur post just sharing.
Temps have been 77-82 (day and night) and 50-65 rh. I’ve noticed an improvement this run by keep my climate steady tbh.
Click to expand...
Seeds
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
It doesn't hurt anything to check the runoff...like I said "just for giggles..." I was always TOLD the same thing....No need to check runoff....etc, But it's nothing to fear and only takes a few minutes to do. I did it, in spite of advice otherwise...and it paid off big time by confirming my suspicions as to a pH problem that was causing all the deficiency symptoms. Regardless of what anyone told me NOT to do...If I had not checked the runoff and seen what was needed, then I'd have just run for the cal-mag and ended up making the problem even worse. Also, it gave me a pretty clear indication of where I needed to get the soil pH to be -as opposed to just taking a blind guess.

I mean, hey, do whatever you want. I'm just throwing out an option. I'd be curious to see, though. :)
 
Cousin Bo

Cousin Bo

Well-Known Member
Now that I look closer I see those plants started getting that leaf edge burn before you left and it's gotten worse. My guess is your water or how you're treating it might be messing up the soil ph. What are you using to test the ph? If it's a meter maybe it needs to be recalibrated. I'm with tstick on testing the runoff to help figure it out. It might be really low.
 
jimbonorman

jimbonorman

Well-Known Member
tstick said:
It doesn't hurt anything to check the runoff...like I said "just for giggles..." I was always TOLD the same thing....No need to check runoff....etc, But it's nothing to fear and only takes a few minutes to do. I did it, in spite of advice otherwise...and it paid off big time by confirming my suspicions as to a pH problem that was causing all the deficiency symptoms. Regardless of what anyone told me NOT to do...If I had not checked the runoff and seen what was needed, then I'd have just run for the cal-mag and ended up making the problem even worse. Also, it gave me a pretty clear indication of where I needed to get the soil pH to be -as opposed to just taking a blind guess.

I mean, hey, do whatever you want. I'm just throwing out an option. I'd be curious to see, though. :)
Click to expand...
I will check it next watering. Thank you!
 
jimbonorman

jimbonorman

Well-Known Member
Cousin Bo said:
Now that I look closer I see those plants started getting that leaf edge burn before you left and it's gotten worse. My guess is your water or how you're treating it might be messing up the soil ph. What are you using to test the ph? If it's a meter maybe it needs to be recalibrated. I'm with tstick on testing the runoff to help figure it out. It might be really low.
Click to expand...
It’s the yellow cheapo meter. I should def recalibrate.
 
jimbonorman

jimbonorman

Well-Known Member
Cousin Bo said:
Now that I look closer I see those plants started getting that leaf edge burn before you left and it's gotten worse. My guess is your water or how you're treating it might be messing up the soil ph. What are you using to test the ph? If it's a meter maybe it needs to be recalibrated. I'm with tstick on testing the runoff to help figure it out. It might be really low.
Click to expand...
I did have to ph adjust the reservoirs before I left so it’s possible those settled to a different number after I left. My tap water drops from 8.8 to 7.5 ish after a day so it’s possible I downed them to 6.5 and a day later they dropped to 5.5 or lower. I never checked their ph when I returned so it’s def possible. :dunce:
 
Cousin Bo

Cousin Bo

Well-Known Member
jimbonorman said:
I did have to ph adjust the reservoirs before I left so it’s possible those settled to a different number after I left. My tap water drops from 8.8 to 7.5 ish after a day so it’s possible I downed them to 6.5 and a day later they dropped to 5.5 or lower. I never checked their ph when I returned so it’s def possible. :dunce:
Click to expand...
Low ph would definitely explain the burnt leaf edges.
 
Cousin Bo

Cousin Bo

Well-Known Member
jimbonorman said:
Low ph is the story of my life. :wall:

Got any recs for quality PH meters? I think I’m ready to invest in a meter that won’t give me a headache every time I try to grow a plant…
Click to expand...
Apera and BlueLab are good brands but the GH drops work too, especially since you're in soil and shouldn't need it much. Even with the meters you should have some drops on hand too just in case.
 
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