There's no way we'll be able to keep big business out of it. When it goes national we the people wont have the say you did in cali. It won't be up to the individual voters but up to washington. were everything is big business. It doesn't matter to me what happens in cali my state isn't even medical and wont be anytime soon. after all we just elected a rep gov.
The best reason for legalization isn't for personnel consumption anyway. There are far better industrial reasons to legalize HEMP that are often forgot and never talked about.
Just my $.02...
it is self-interest that must be utilized to pass any sort of legalization. the self-interest of the growers (both present and potential), the smokers, the anti-legalization crowd, the business community, the politicians and the taxpayer at large most of all. we are greedy little creatures, all of us, and we seldom allow an advantage to anyone else unless we derive some benefit as well. empathy, altruism and justice are fleeting and almost never carry the day.
we can appease the die-hard prohibitionists only through alcohol-like regulation. the taxpayers and the politicians can be enticed with the promise of tax revenues and business will be happy with a new marketplace to explore. of course most of the smokers are going to be happy with anything that allows them to enjoy their pastime without fear. aside from those who simply can never be won over, it was mostly those who depend on this prohibition for their livelihood that kept 19 from passing by a slim margin.
Exactly! Which is why it's going to take regulations and compromise, and a lot of it, if we are ever to end this ridiculous prohibition. All interested parties should have a say in this, not just the government and the growers. Repeal of prohibition will have an impact on society at large and there will have to be mechanisms in place to test people on the spot for "Driving under the influence". There is currently no way to do this (none that I'm aware of anyway). The smell in residential areas could become an issue (not everyone likes the smell of cannabis). The problems are more than I can list here but these are a couple of examples. I don't want the government and big business to be the only ones benefitting from re-legalization either, but we have to make a choice. Do what's right, or continue the madness. I'll take the first choice.
These are all some very valid points. I only went in to page 7 so far. but interesting thread. not sure if this has been touched on or not after pg 7.
Full Legalization. what can it mean? now, we have the anit marijuana crowd. now matter what truths/facts/cures it may offer, these folks will never be onboard. this is the left fringe, that every debated topic has. their message, is typically, dont smoke pot, dope is for dopes. My question, is that their sole motive? or just the motive being sold to them?
what does that mean you say? that makes no sence? but doesnt it?
allow me to paint you a picture from my perspective.
Thier is a Much Much larger picture not really looked at here. In the posts above, their is a few lines that elude to my thoughs, but it barely touches on the subject. so i ll expand the scope below.
Monday, Apirl 4th, 2011. The US Federal Government, including all facets of Legislature, Judicial, Presidential, and Economical facets, overwhellingly pass for total legalization of Canabis and Hemp. (if you do one you have to do both).
so heres one scenario that can play out.
the passage, empties the prisons of marijuana convictions, and these people are no longer felons. they are released, without so much as a "our Bad". just out. now im not sure on the number, but im guessing that equates to around 500,000, maybe a million people off of the taxpayers backs and on the streets. nationwide, probably in the millions.
now, fact is most of them will have no where to go. maybe 25% will be able to pick up their life where they left off with a little adjustment period. the other 75% will have to make due. think about that for a minute.
Now, Prisons being 60% less populated, will mean a 50% reduction is work staff. again, not sure on the number here, but im guessing 75,000 to 100,000 people being laid off remember not just prison workers, but any services they use, will have a reduction is staff and loss of sales. IE Food Services, Utilities, ect. and yes, this would save us as tax payers billions over time, but intially it ll add another 100,000 people to the already stressed unemployment lines.
just a fact people. im not making this up, its logical cause and effect.
now, dont get me wrong here, im a longtime smoker, and think Marihuana should of never been made illegal in the first place. And in that meaning, should of never been convicted and jailed. But i wear no rose colored glasses about the implicatons of 400,000 to 1,000,000 newly released individuals on the street with no home, job, money...And 100,000 and possilbly more new unemployedment benefit seekers.
scenario number 2.
same deal, full legalization.
your John. You live in Kansas, and you are a Rye/Wheat/Corn Farmer. you rotate your grows as to not overly strip the soil of nutriants for one strain. 3 yrs ago, you grew corn. it cost you $4.35 cents an acre to grow, and you sold it for $5.45 an acre for a profit of $1.10 an acre
2yrs prior you grew Wheat at $1.23 an acre, and sold it for $2.46 an acre, doubling your investment (yes, farming is a form of investment).
last year you grew rye. cost you 6.34 and acre to grow but it sold for 16.34 an acre, by far your most productive crop in rotaion, but the harshest as far stripping the soil of nutes ect...
so this year, hemps legal to grow, and John want to give hemp a try. figures another crop for the rotation cant be bad, and futures on hemp sales are good. its a wide open fresh market. John decides hes not going to grow for the medical community at this point, but decide instead to grow for the new bio fuel facility up the road. They are making high quality, high effecient bio fuel out of hemp (this is an actual high probability of being done. current research is showing High promise of the abilty of bio fuel from hemp with its fast and east grows, that offers more energy per ounce than corn or soy or cooking oils can). John decides he needs to run a small test crop of hemp.
So John converts his one barn to indoor grow facility for his test crop. cost was around 7,000 for equipement, not including seeds, fertilizers ect... outside he grows his usual rotation of corn.
being farming is a long term investment, he figures he can retrofit one of the older barns that has minimal use, and then has the abilty to control exacting grow enviroment to maximize grow and get max potential investment.
the cost for John to do this test grow is minimal when compared to what it cost him to plant any of his other crops and maintain them thru the grow, less the actual seed itself. he calculates to actually field the hemp, would run him around $13.78 an acre.
now the seasons done. Johns Corn grow net was worse due to the increased cost of fuel this year. he only made $.47 cents a bushell.
next years crop with increased fuel cost doesnt look any brighter. the rye is looking good to plant being his biggest cash crop per investment dollar, but doing a crop 2 yrs apart will serverly hurt the soil, and cost 4 times as much to replentish for the Wheat crop if he does rye now. Should John follow his grow cycle, he ll grow wheat. As noted, the increased fuel cost, now has caught up with his suppliers and other businesses he uses to be a farmer. projections show where he made $1.23 on wheat profits last yr., is only looking to net, $.42 per bushell proit in 2012.
why is this all important? keep reading.
John makes his Test Marihuana harvest. the crop cost John 5000.00. only the seeds and cost to grow the seeds is included in this figure, equipment is of a test nature, and is written off on taxes so is a mute point to John at this stage.
Johns havest sells down at the CanaBioFuel facility for 25,000.00. He has hemp of medium/high quality, and has a decent yield due to seed selection and being a competant farmer.
So Johns Test grow for Marihuana nets him 20,000.00 profit and cost him the same on average, of the cost to grow his usual Food related crops, per acre.
Now, John and his wife set back and do the calculations. It would cost $.78 per bushell at current cost, but with the yield, he could of effectivly made back $2,0000 per bushell if the yeild was even 1/2 of what it was indoors.
John decides hes done growing food crops, and shift his farm to biocanafuel crops for 2012. In 2012, John does amazingly well, even with the high cost of fuel, his investment has been returned in huge margins
his 500,000.00 grow costs neted over 15 million on the sale of the crop, and it really didnt hurt the soil at all, as John just used minimal fertilizers due to hemps natural fertile growth pattern of being in the weed variety of plants.
in 2014, 60% of all US Food Farmers have switched to the far more profitable Hemp Farming industry.
so there are a couple scenarios that are very real and probable. lets not forget, Marijuana/Hemp isnt just about getting high, relaxing abit, or as a person with a medical issue, just medicine. the uses for it are limitless. From Medicine to, Fuel, to Safe Plastics, to Ropes stronger than steel ect.. now imagine if this industry sprung to life Monday Am... How many years would it be until we had NO farmers caring to grow low profit food, when they can make SUCH a profit growing the natrually heardy, natrually highly reproductive (endless supply of seeds for next years/rotations crop). even after the market stabilized, the cana crops would out net any food crop by 100s of times for profitability.
you can see where im going with this.
now take the bio fuel facility. the fuel they produce is 50% effecient. this puts a major crimp in the crude oil industry. OK good for earth, but now we have another major industry, dumping 50% of its work force.
what about plastics. that industry takes a hit, but can adapt readily to move from fossile fuel produced plastics to hemp produced plastics. So while initially this industry takes a large hit, it rebounds in a few years unlike the crude oil industry, who are not farmers, they are well drillers.
now factor in the other industry that would be effected by full on legaliztion.
Medical, Industrial, Service, Manufacturing, ect.....
we are talking Billions of people effected on both sides of this coin. got good and horendous effects, some consequential, some casualties of a changing society/industry, and a complete restructuring of the way life is lived compared to how it is today.
the one thing that wont change in all of this, is the elites grab for money, which brings power.
fact is, full on legalization has many enemies, not even known. you can take the law, and the medical community out of it, and find more than enough powerfull industries with MUCH to lose if marijuana was fully legalized.
For those that say we need no government, i say you better grab a history book. without some form of simple government to guide the citizens forward for the benefit of all, we ll end up with the wild west, where the people that are ruthless have the power. Their has to be some Govermental representation, and a military force to protect the people at large, not against them selves, but agains real crime. regulations (ie, John the farmer can only grow hemp on 15% of his farm, the other 85% must be dedicated to food crops) are what will keep things in balance. so in 2017, we still have food to eat, and medicine that is affordable, and our kids arnt sold into prostitutive slavery for the new Gangis Khan.
no government pretty much equates to full on anarchy. live and let die if you will. every man for himself, and before long, things will be right back where they are currently. that is to say, a few power mongers forcing their will on the population in their "REGIME".
Those unwilling to learn the history, are doomed to repeat it.
