Please help well intentioned grower get a toehold in the organic world! topdress and tea---

Nwtexan said:

I like their site. I try to buy as much locally as I can, but I'm sure I will be using some of their supplies

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It's pretty local to me. I'm in CO.

Microbes will be your friend in any pot size

maranibbana said:

Microbes will be your friend in any pot size

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Definitely have been trying to learn. I have been using recharge to this point and I will be trying to grow my soil progressively as I get it all together

Oof dont put hot manure on your pots. thats not a good idea. worm, alpaca, and rabbit droppings are ok to use right away. but compost chicken cow and pig manure compost before use. OR even better, dont do that, grow clover and use it to feed your soil food web.

Have you read the ROLS no till Thread yet? Defiantly give that a once over. There's also a current grow journal going on over in the organics section called "pink lemonade". he goes into good detail on how to keep your soil alive. Worms, mulch, homemade leaf mould and water. I dont do any teas, no top dressings, no slurrys, no re-ammends, none of that shit. in a 4x4 no till bed i started with 1000 red wigglers and 2 lbs of European night crawlers. I got a top layer on my pot that looks, smells, and feel like a forest floor.

IMO and I stress that its just MY OPINION, all that other crap (teas, top dressings, ect) falls into one of 2 categories, Growers that don't care for their soil properly have to use that stuff to bandaid their poor soil feeding practices or (and im guilty of this) we like to tinker too much.

What you really have to do is separate things a bit. You got feeding your soil. And feeding your plant. I have been growing in the same dirt now for over 6 years. When I harvest, i have a huge crop of clover and other plants that have grown in. I chop and turn off the lights and let everything die and decompose. 2 weeks later Im dropping more plants in. I have at this point covered the cover crop with mulch from my harvested plants and they go on top of everything. once you learn to dump everything organic back into your pot and when to cycle in cover crops and get your watering right its pretty set and forget it.
Then you got feeding your plants. You can get super complicated with this if you want. Im a simple grower that is kinda lazy and kinda cheap. So I only use 2 things for plant food. Coconut water and Aloe water. I do each once a week Coconut on Tueday, Aloe on Friday. Foiler feed a half gallon through 70 micron misters. Ill do this until i got buds on it.

Also if you are using FFOF in smaller containers you will water often. Keep in mind that FFOF is made with Peatmoss and if it drys out it wont take water for shit. Get yourself a bottle of Yucca Extract. It will reduce the surface tension of the water so the peat will absorb it. If your cheap you can use 2 drops of Dawn dishsoap/gallon of water. Its not organic but its also non toxic. Nothing worse then dry spots in peat...

m4s73r said:

Oof dont put hot manure on your pots. thats not a good idea. worm, alpaca, and rabbit droppings are ok to use right away. but compost chicken cow and pig manure compost before use. OR even better, dont do that, grow clover and use it to feed your soil food web.

Have you read the ROLS no till Thread yet? Defiantly give that a once over. There's also a current grow journal going on over in the organics section called "pink lemonade". he goes into good detail on how to keep your soil alive. Worms, mulch, homemade leaf mould and water. I dont do any teas, no top dressings, no slurrys, no re-ammends, none of that shit. in a 4x4 no till bed i started with 1000 red wigglers and 2 lbs of European night crawlers. I got a top layer on my pot that looks, smells, and feel like a forest floor.

IMO and I stress that its just MY OPINION, all that other crap (teas, top dressings, ect) falls into one of 2 categories, Growers that don't care for their soil properly have to use that stuff to bandaid their poor soil feeding practices or (and im guilty of this) we like to tinker too muc

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Man. Lots of good info, but as per the thread topic, completely contradicting the other info! I guess this is the learning part.
I do like to tinker; at least at this point.

For now, I will be growing in the 7G pots. With that in mind, I’m gonna need to supply some additional nutrients to them before too long.

So, you are saying, in my situation, to not include the chicken manure? Kelp and fish meal, ewc all good for amendments?

I’m also trying to figure out how much to push p and k. When I used to grow many years ago this seemed like a pretty clear shift in flowering. None of my amendments seem to be really pushing these in this case

No chicken. manure. EWC is boss. i dont personally like fish meal. However Kelp is all you need. Here is Coots Kelp tea/Foiler feed.

Next you want to get 2 things. Coconut water and Aloe juice. Foiler feed each of those once a week for plant food.

Any dry amendments you ad wont help your current plant for at least a month, if ever. Those will be good for your next grow.

Listen im not saying what other have said wont work. I'm sure it will. But its over the top. Kelp is all you need. for your soil biology and root system. Coconut water and Aloe is for the plant. Aloe will help hydrate the peat thats dried out in your air pot.

Your biggest issue is going to be your pots. Airpots may hold 7 gallons of soil, but its not all usable. if your not using a wetting agent then you got a 2 inch dry crust around your whole pot that is now Hydrophobic (damn peatmoss). so actually your proly only growing in 4 gallons of moist medium. Aloe in your water will act as a wetting agent making sure your able to use more of the pot as the outside crust will actually absorb water. You can test this by adding 2 drops of dawn dish soap to a gallon of water and watch how fast the soil accepts the water and runs it through. Ends dry spots.

m4s73r said:

No chicken. manure. EWC is boss. i dont personally like fish meal. However Kelp is all you need. Here is Coots Kelp tea/Foiler feed.

DIY Instant Kelp Meal Tea - Coots Hydrated Kelp Meal Trick

If you could only use 1 of our DIY plant tea's. This would be it. Not only is this quick and easy to prepare ahead of time, it's practically instant once you've pre-made the Hydrated Kelp meal. I could go on and on about how kelp meal is a must have for your garden but I think you already know...

buildasoil.com

Next you want to get 2 things. Coconut water and Aloe juice. Foiler feed each of those once a week for plant food.

Any dry amendments you ad wont help your current plant for at least a month, if ever. Those will be good for your next grow.

Listen im not saying what other have said wont work. I'm sure it will. But its over the top. Kelp is all you need. for your soil biology and root system. Coconut water and Aloe is for the plant. Aloe will help hydrate the peat thats dried out in your air pot.

Your biggest issue is going to be your pots. Airpots may hold 7 gallons of soil, but its not all usable. if your not using a wetting agent then you got a 2 inch dry crust around your whole pot that is now Hydrophobic (damn peatmoss). so actually your proly only growing in 4 gallons of moist medium. Aloe in your water will act as a wetting agent making sure your able to use more of the pot as the outside crust will actually absorb water. You can test this by adding 2 drops of dawn dish soap to a gallon of water and watch how fast the soil accepts the water and runs it through. Ends dry spots.

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Head spins——

Thanks for the info on the yucca. That makes sense.
I didn’t know that the amendments wouldn’t have an effect for a month. I thought it was 2 weeks or so. I’m flipping in about 2 weeks.

I’m thinking that your soil is probably fundamentally richer than mine. Obviously I’m learning as I go and started with what I thought was a pretty solid soil base. I moved plants into 7 G about 2 weeks ago. The soil is a base of ffhf and ffof with ewc and humus. I am thinking that they will be needing some additional nutrition in the next couple of weeks. I also want to make sure that I have enough P and K as they switch into flower mode.

I know a lot of people shit on FFof. But its a fine soil. Its not amended as heavily as a homemade soil and can be a little strong in nutes for seeds. Back in the day its what everyone used till guys started making their own. My bro in law grows in it. He uses 10 gallons of it per plant. He cuts it with a half bag of ewc and a cup or 2 of perlite. He has enough to do 1 run a year. Got 2 50 gallon black trashcans that has all his soil. He does one grow a year with 80 gallons of soil. Starts in oct and chops in feb. He uses the winter air to keep his grow op cool.

m4s73r said:

I know a lot of people shit on FFof. But its a fine soil. Its not amended as heavily as a homemade soil and can be a little strong in nutes for seeds. Back in the day its what everyone used till guys started making their own. My bro in law grows in it. He uses 10 gallons of it per plant. He cuts it with a half bag of ewc and a cup or 2 of perlite. He has enough to do 1 run a year. Got 2 50 gallon black trashcans that has all his soil. He does one grow a year with 80 gallons of soil. Starts in oct and chops in feb. He uses the winter air to keep his grow op cool.

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Most if not all throw salts at it almost immediately then wonder why they have problems 3 weeks in. Newbie central is full of threads like that.

myke said:

Most if not all throw salts at it almost immediately then wonder why they have problems 3 weeks in. Newbie central is full of threads like that.

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yep. 3 gallons of FFOF will veg a 5 node plant big enough on its own with just water. ONce she gets good and big and you see that first yellow leaf, you transplant her to 7-10 gallons and bloom her. Use a little big bloom and tiger bloom at the end. PROFIT.

I want to try to answer this because I feel I was in the same boat a couple years ago. So many ways from A to B but that’s actually good news. You can choose what feels right to you and then learn from that.

Compared to the super badass organic people in here I’m like organic lite. I needed a starting point so I can tell you what I chose and how’s it’s gone.

If you have not yet, learn your water. This mix should allow you to do that. Your water input will need to balance with your soil making this puzzle trickier for some people. I used a $5 ph dropper kit and got good with it until I felt I understood my water. A good tester would make this easier. I tend to do everything the hard way and hate expensive gear collecting dust. I hardly ever use the drops even now.



Soil mix:
1/3 Promix HP/Myco bale
1/3 Compost - bagged but most local I can find.
1/3 chunk perlite

I mix and store in the 27 gallon black totes with yellow lids you see all over. The’ll hold 20 gallons that you can mix without too much mess. To that above mix each 20 gallons of soil I add:


No more than a cup total Micros - azomite and kelp mainly but this is where stuff can get outta hand easy. Pick one or two to start IMO.

I add a small amount of dolomite lime too 1/4 cup to that whole tote.

This mix is fine for seedlings even.



When I transplant to flower containers (10 gallon fabric) that mix gets:

EWC two big handfuls per 7 or 10 gallon. I prefer 10s.

That’s really the only difference for flowering. More EWC.

Let them love on that for 3-4 weeks and start top dressing EWC and the same compost. Say 50/50 mix. You want to leave room in your pots for the top dress.

That’s it. No teas. I failed with them and haven’t returned. Yet anyway. I use my RO water and if they start looking behind I top dress and start mixing in some of my well water. Hoping to switch to rain water this year as I’ve already been collecting for my outdoor veggies.

Is this ultra organic? Maybe not. But it grows some dank.

Get some yellow sticky traps now. Those and a oscillating fan under the canopy and across the pot tops will control the gnats you’re going to get eventually.

Other than that start checking out IPM regimens. We make these perfect environment for bugs so good to start right off.

M.O. said:

Ignats you’re going to get eventually.

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lol yup

As a new organic grower, I highly recommend researching the heavy metal content of your soil amendments. This database has the major brands but will probably lack any locally sourced stuff: https://apps1.cdfa.ca.gov/fertilizerproducts/ The dirty secret of organics is that your soil might end up with even higher levels of arsenic and cadmium than mediums using conventional salts (which are also commonly tainted). Most products come in well below the "allowed" levels, but a few are off the charts, including products I happened to be using, so I'm glad someone turned me on to this database.

M.O. said:

I want to try to answer this because I feel I was in the same boat a couple years ago. So many ways from A to B but that’s actually good news. You can choose what feels right to you and then learn from that.

Compared to the super badass organic people in here I’m like organic lite. I needed a starting point so I can tell you what I chose and how’s it’s gone.

If you have not yet, learn your water. This mix should allow you to do that. Your water input will need to balance with your soil making this puzzle trickier for some people. I used a $5 ph dropper kit and got good with it until I felt I understood my water. A good tester would make this easier. I tend to do everything the hard way and hate expensive gear collecting dust. I hardly ever use the drops even now.



Soil mix:
1/3 Promix HP/Myco bale
1/3 Compost - bagged but most local I can find.
1/3 chunk perlite

I mix and store in the 27 gallon black totes with yellow lids you see all over. The’ll hold 20 gallons that you can mix without too much mess. To that above mix each 20 gallons of soil I add:


No more than a cup total Micros - azomite and kelp mainly but this is where stuff can get outta hand easy. Pick one or two to start IMO.

I add a small amount of dolomite lime too 1/4 cup to that whole tote.

This mix is fine for seedlings even.



When I transplant to flower containers (10 gallon fabric) that mix gets:

EWC two big handfuls per 7 or 10 gallon. I prefer 10s.

That’s really the only difference for flowering. More EWC.

Let them love on that for 3-4 weeks and start top dressing EWC and the same compost. Say 50/50 mix. You want to leave room in your pots for the top dress.

That’s it. No teas. I failed with them and haven’t returned. Yet anyway. I use my RO water and if they start looking behind I top dress and start mixing in some of my well water. Hoping to switch to rain water this year as I’ve already been collecting for my outdoor veggies.

Is this ultra organic? Maybe not. But it grows some dank.

Get some yellow sticky traps now. Those and a oscillating fan under the canopy and across the pot tops will control the gnats you’re going to get eventually.

Other than that start checking out IPM regimens. We make these perfect environment for bugs so good to start right off.

Click to expand...

Thats a good start. what do you do with your soil once you've harvested a plant?

Rurumo said:

As a new organic grower, I highly recommend researching the heavy metal content of your soil amendments. This database has the major brands but will probably lack any locally sourced stuff: https://apps1.cdfa.ca.gov/fertilizerproducts/ The dirty secret of organics is that your soil might end up with even higher levels of arsenic and cadmium than mediums using conventional salts (which are also commonly tainted). Most products come in well below the "allowed" levels, but a few are off the charts, including products I happened to be using, so I'm glad someone turned me on to this database.

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Wow, awesome resource. Thank you!

Another source where arsenic can creep in is from well water. RO filters do clean it though. Good reason to write down when you change filters.

For gnats do the following: Find a shallow container—a tuna can is perfect—and fill it with equal parts water and apple cider vinegar. (The liquid should be at least ¼-inch deep.) Put a few drops of liquid dish soap into the mixture and stir gently. Throw it in your tent. Check it every few days to refresh with new vinegar and water. Works everytime

m4s73r said:

Thats a good start. what do you do with your soil once you've harvested a plant?

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After I cut the plant I actually dump my mix back into the black totes and add back new compost. I remove the big masses of roots but don’t worry about little bits.
I have only recently started trying to recycle so my method is definitely not successful because of recycling. Should get better over time and hopefully less top dress.

So that big mass of roots is chock full of nutrients. A good soil with a lot of bio activity will eat them roots in a week. I love those totes. Do you grow directly in them? if you do even better. I got a med grower that he grows in those. about 20 gallons of dirt. once he harvests he throws on some of his EWCs. throws in all the leaves and stems from the plant he just harvested. wet it all down and puts a lid on it. he will come back to that on after the next harvest. He has 8 totes. 4 being grown in 4 just decomposing. But he has a good established worm bin that he feeds a scoop of amendments every 2 weeks. Here is a link of what he gets. he gets the bucket once a year i think.

https://buildasoil.com/collections/pre-mixed-kits/products/buildasoil-nutrient-kit-clackamascoots-style?variant=8754838503541


If you do something like this make sure to start making leaf mould if you have the space. Eventually the peat will break down and become compost. So you will throw about half that outside and fill back up with the leaf mould. Then its just a worm bin, and mulching.

I really like how you kept it really simple. Believe me too many growers turn into tinkers and things can get way complicated. Make sure when you ad new compost that you throw some perlite/pumice/rice hulls in with it. But the system is simple. Feed your worms. Give them the nutrients. Throw their poop on the dirt with the dry leaves and let it set. Make sure you check it once in awhile. He dont even take them out the tent. he just rotates the lids around.

M.O. said:

I want to try to answer this because I feel I was in the same boat a couple years ago. So many ways from A to B but that’s actually good news. You can choose what feels right to you and then learn from that.

Compared to the super badass organic people in here I’m like organic lite. I needed a starting point so I can tell you what I chose and how’s it’s gone.

If you have not yet, learn your water. This mix should allow you to do that. Your water input will need to balance with your soil making this puzzle trickier for some people. I used a $5 ph dropper kit and got good with it until I felt I understood my water. A good tester would make this easier. I tend to do everything the hard way and hate expensive gear collecting dust. I hardly ever use the drops even now.



Soil mix:
1/3 Promix HP/Myco bale
1/3 Compost - bagged but most local I can find.
1/3 chunk perlite

I mix and store in the 27 gallon black totes with yellow lids you see all over. The’ll hold 20 gallons that you can mix without too much mess. To that above mix each 20 gallons of soil I add:


No more than a cup total Micros - azomite and kelp mainly but this is where stuff can get outta hand easy. Pick one or two to start IMO.

I add a small amount of dolomite lime too 1/4 cup to that whole tote.

This mix is fine for seedlings even.



When I transplant to flower containers (10 gallon fabric) that mix gets:

EWC two big handfuls per 7 or 10 gallon. I prefer 10s.

That’s really the only difference for flowering. More EWC.

Let them love on that for 3-4 weeks and start top dressing EWC and the same compost. Say 50/50 mix. You want to leave room in your pots for the top dress.

That’s it. No teas. I failed with them and haven’t returned. Yet anyway. I use my RO water and if they start looking behind I top dress and start mixing in some of my well water. Hoping to switch to rain water this year as I’ve already been collecting for my outdoor veggies.

Is this ultra organic? Maybe not. But it grows some dank.

Get some yellow sticky traps now. Those and a oscillating fan under the canopy and across the pot tops will control the gnats you’re going to get eventually.

Other than that start checking out IPM regimens. We make these perfect environment for bugs so good to start right off.

Click to expand...

Again, thanks!

As far as water. We have pretty awesome well water. It is right around 7.0 and has low minerals. The only issue is that similar to RO water it doesn't hold PH too well. I have all kinds of testing equipment(I love that!) so i feel pretty solid on water

I'm already in my final pot, so i will do a top dress. I'm gonna try a version of the one suggested and see how it goes. It sounds like it should be ok either way.

I'll do the:
- fishmeal
-kelpmeal
-EWC
-a bit od Down to Earth organic bud and bloom fert

I'm curious to hear why the teas didn't work out for you.

Thanks also on the gnat idea. I'm gonna do that now. Ive only seen one or two, but i have definitely heard that they are an issue

Teas are one of those controversial things. Some people swear by whatever concotion of worm shit and kelp meal ect in a bucket till its bubbling. When you see those guys, look into thier growing past. (Proly hydro guys or tinker guys) Now thats not to say teas dont have uses. They just have little use on a soil that full of biological activity. Now if you have a inert soil or something that been wore out by being dryed/ over used. then teas can help recondition a food soil web. Most of the time the guys feeding these teas are feeding in volume that its almost a DTW muddy hydro system. LOL. And finally the teas that are used to recondition bad soil are done so by agricultural engineers that study the shit under a microscop to see whats killing the food web of the soil. Not Fred Too Stoned growing organic weed in his basement.