***PICS*** New growth has dark blotches and is wilting ***PICS***

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
nobody thinks this is a cal/mag deficiency?? am i wrong in seeing this? im new to being able to identify plant problems, but arent those telltale signs of deficiencies??

What nutes are you using? and did you flush out your rez?? Ph?? NPK?? do you have a PPM meter for your plants?? like a truncheon or somethin similar to measure the nutrient salts level in your rez??
Hey King,
At first I thought it was a magnesium deficiency. I did flush the reservoir with pH'd distilled water. I don't have a pH meter, but I do have the liquid ph tester. I keep my pH around 5.8 - 6.0. My EC/PPM/CF meter isn't here yet. Originally I used the aerogarden nutes (2 small tabs), but I bought Fox Farm Big Bloom, Grow Big, and Tiger Bloom; I haven't used them yet. Thanks for the responses. I value everyone's feedback. Thank you!
 

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
you should definitely try running the air pump 24/7. This will help the water to constantly stay oxygenated and will help lower your water temps... Even though the lights are off, the roots still need oxygenated water. Also 80 degrees for your water is too high man, so running the air pump will help cool the water. Good luck.
Hello ab,
I'm sorry for the confusion, the air pump is running 24/7. The Aerogarden's water pump runs on the same time schedule as the lights (18/6). You're right though I have to get the water temps in check. Thanks!
 

Yes Sir

Active Member
it looks like either a ph imbalance or an ozone issue. get more clean air in there and save up and buy a digital ph meter. the ph you have i found was good for soil but im not sure its accurate enough an aero setup.
 

volcomi18

Well-Known Member
it's not an ozone thing let's set that straight now. Negative ion air purifiers are proved to be beneficial to plants I'll try to find the article read it awhile ago. 2 now that they have progressed worse I can say I def had the same thing twice once from the ag nutes I had 1 small tab in there from the start and thought I should drop second in like a week later and they started doing that so I flushed the rez with fresh phed water with no nutes until I was ready to start fox farm and I was satisfied the prob was fixed then I started foliar feeding with a 1/4 of a small ag tab in my sprayed stopped foliar feeding and no problems since.
 

stoner51a

Active Member
I had some AG plants that looked pretty bad. Couldn't tell whether it was too much nute or not enuf, but something wasn't right!

Siphoned out the old water containing AG nutes and replaced with distilled water and 1 Tblsp of Big Bloom, 1/4 tsp of Tiger Bloom (also added more Tiger Bloom over the next couple of days, 1/4 tsp at a time).

Plants did perk up, some of the spots even disappeared. Hope that helps you.
 

K1Ng5p4d3

Junior Creatologist
it's not an ozone thing let's set that straight now. Negative ion air purifiers are proved to be beneficial to plants I'll try to find the article read it awhile ago. 2 now that they have progressed worse I can say I def had the same thing twice once from the ag nutes I had 1 small tab in there from the start and thought I should drop second in like a week later and they started doing that so I flushed the rez with fresh phed water with no nutes until I was ready to start fox farm and I was satisfied the prob was fixed then I started foliar feeding with a 1/4 of a small ag tab in my sprayed stopped foliar feeding and no problems since.
thanks for sayin it before i did. i think thats the first time since ive been here that someone has tried to blame the ozone for browning leaves, lol.

N btw, If you bought the FF nute pack, then you need to be using it. clean out your rez of all the shit your using right now, and start using Fox Farm. Its really hard to burn your plants using FF. you actually have to be actively trying to hurt your babies with FF to burn them, lol. Just make sure if your using the growbig, that your using the HYDROPONIC grow big. its in the teal bottle. I know your not a moron, lol, but just makin sure bro.

But yes, its got to do with your water and your nutes. its a problem thats progressively getting worse, and thats gotta be bacuase of what your using right now. switch it up asap and try again. i bet you cant wait to get that ppm meter now eh? lol.

good luck once again bro,

-K1.
 

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
what is your grow area like, is it in a closet, open room, etc.
It's a closet 6 feet high 4 feet deep and about 4 feet wide.

K1Ng5p4d3 said:
thanks for sayin it before i did. i think thats the first time since ive been here that someone has tried to blame the ozone for browning leaves, lol.

N btw, If you bought the FF nute pack, then you need to be using it. clean out your rez of all the shit your using right now, and start using Fox Farm. Its really hard to burn your plants using FF. you actually have to be actively trying to hurt your babies with FF to burn them, lol. Just make sure if your using the growbig, that your using the HYDROPONIC grow big. its in the teal bottle. I know your not a moron, lol, but just makin sure bro.

But yes, its got to do with your water and your nutes. its a problem thats progressively getting worse, and thats gotta be bacuase of what your using right now. switch it up asap and try again. i bet you cant wait to get that ppm meter now eh? lol.

good luck once again bro,

-K1.
Lol, yeah I have the hydroponic Grow Big. The only thing is I went ahead and planted 4 feminized Snow White and they are about 4 days old now. I'm holding off on the nutes for another week and a half (total two weeks) because I don't want to make the same mistake. I cleaned the reservoir when I planted the new sprouts and filled with ph'd distilled water (10/10/08). This problem really became bad after I flushed the reservoir. I Also removed the ionic breeze yesterday. Right now I'm in the process of making some homeade CO2. I really appreciate everyone following the thread and I'll be sure to update with pictures. THANK YOU!
 

volcomi18

Well-Known Member
well the brown spots were going to show up since they were already nute burnt even if u flush it's when you give them time to recover afterwards it may get a little worse before it gets better.
 

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
well the brown spots were going to show up since they were already nute burnt even if u flush it's when you give them time to recover afterwards it may get a little worse before it gets better.
Yeah it could be the plant just using up the excessive amount of nutrients from the 2 AG tablets. That's another reason why I want to wait before I start using the Fox Farm nutrients.
 

KaliKitsune

Well-Known Member
it's not an ozone thing let's set that straight now. Negative ion air purifiers are proved to be beneficial to plants I'll try to find the article read it awhile ago. 2 now that they have progressed worse I can say I def had the same thing twice once from the ag nutes I had 1 small tab in there from the start and thought I should drop second in like a week later and they started doing that so I flushed the rez with fresh phed water with no nutes until I was ready to start fox farm and I was satisfied the prob was fixed then I started foliar feeding with a 1/4 of a small ag tab in my sprayed stopped foliar feeding and no problems since.
As a horticultural science teacher, no, that's not right. Ozone is a free radical, and will react negatively with any organic surface. It's good for sterilizing things, but when you add organic and living things into the mix, they will die.

I even have photo proof of this, demonstrating O3 overdose. the symptoms are the exact same.

Teachers FTW.
 

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
Hello everyone,
My plant seems to be getting a little bit better. I figure I would include some pictures of new growth underneath all the nastiness. I'm using clean pH'd distilled water with no nutes. I believe the plant is using up the excessive nutrients and that's why it looks the way it does.

Current conditions:

Ambient Temperature: 78ºF
Humidity: 43%
Water Temperature: 78ºF
pH: 5.8 - 5.9









The plant's growth is definitely stunted since it should be taller considering it's 19 days old. As always any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 

KaliKitsune

Well-Known Member
Stop worrying. As I stated, it'll be about a week before the plant fully recovers. Just wait and watch, my friend :) Most remedies for most any plant takes about a week to show results.
 

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
Stop worrying. As I stated, it'll be about a week before the plant fully recovers. Just wait and watch, my friend :) Most remedies for most any plant takes about a week to show results.
Hey Kali!
I went ahead and removed 1 or 2 leaves that had 50% or more damage. I read in the growfaq to leave a little bit of the stem so that's how I trimmed it. Thanks Kali!
 

P0t Sm0k3r

Active Member
but you need to ask a proffesional with hydroponics. Newbies answering Newbies questions can sometimes lead to trouble. N No offense guys, you all sound liek you know what your talking about,
-K1.
Funny you mention bad advice.

Its really hard to burn your plants using FF. -K1.
Really?

Just make sure if your using the growbig, that your using the HYDROPONIC grow big. its in the teal bottle. I know your not a moron, lol, but just makin sure bro.
-K1.
Watch who your callin a moron.-LOL That shit happen to me on my first grow. I bought the Trio pack, and used it on my DWC. EHHE for 2weeks I used the soil GrowBig.
Its all good. Its been ONE HELL of a learning curve.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Altho, I do agree. It look like a nute def. Im no expert. When my plant had some brown spotting I added epsome salts, and it went away.

I can tell you from experience, gett that res temp down. Lost 4 decent size plants due to root rot.

Kali is right, most "adjustments" you do, take about a week to show.
 

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
Hey P0t Sm0k3r,
Epsom salts is recommended for a magnesium deficiency not nute burn. If I add epsom salts at this point it could potentially lock out other nutrients. I'm keeping an eye on the roots and they look great. Overall, I think the two small aerogarden nutrient tablets caused this problem. I'm not quite sure how to get the reservoir temperature down. The Aerogarden can only hold a gallon of water so I can't really put in anything to cool it down. Thanks for the response!

Here are the current conditions and pictures:
Temperature: 82ºF
Humidity: 43%
Water temperature: 82ºF





New growth is looking good.
 

P0t Sm0k3r

Active Member
Dont look like burn, but w/e.

Id still throw a frozen coke bottle in that 82F water.

82F water dont hold shit for DO.

Your right on lockouts but hot water will "potentially lock out other nutrients" as will 82F water.

Try lookin over Hydroponics faq or AlBFuct Faq, I know its somewhere on the boards) its about dissolved oxygen DO.
 

P0t Sm0k3r

Active Member
I found this posted by Earl.

Clones usually like warmer temperatures,
and since there are no roots, no rot,
normally you will move them,
before that starts to happen.

DWC is prone to Root Rot,
always due to low DO*

Altitude and Salinity play an important role
in how much DO a solution can carry.

If you reduce your nute loads,
your solution can carry more DO.

If you live in Denver,
you may have a problem indoor growing
with any temps above 65ºf

If you check out Roseypanties' experiment,
you will see he had much better result using a reduced nute load.

There were two positive effects on his plants,
that were grown using the reduced nute load.

The first good thing that happened was,
his DO increased,
due to the reduced salinity,
of his nutrient solution.

Second, osmotic pressure was reduced in the rhyzome,
allowing the plant to take in more H2o
and thus grow faster.

What does this second statement really mean?

Take your hand,
and leave it in salt water for an hour.

What happens?

Your skin wrinkles,... why?

Because the salt
has caused the osmotic pressure
on the outdside of your skin
to be higher than the pressure inside your skin,
and as the water in your hand
is sucked out through your skin,
your hand actually shrinks
from the loss of fluid
and the skin becomes loose
and wrinkled.

It is harder for your plant
to uptake water and nutrients
when you use high nute loads,
because the salt creates negative osmotic pressure (hypertonicity)
against the semipermeable membrane
of the root cell walls.

Here is the Wiki "scientific answer".

Osmotic pressure is the hydrostatic pressure
produced by a solution
in a space divided by a semipermeable membrane (your roots)
due to a differential in the concentrations of solute.

Osmoregulation is the homeostasis mechanism of an organism
to reach balance in osmotic pressure.

Osmotic potential is the opposite of water potential
with the former meaning
the degree to which a solvent (usually water)
would want to stay in a liquid
and not pass through the membrane.

Hypertonicity is a solution that causes cells to shrink.

It may or may not have a higher osmotic pressure than the cell interior
since the rate of water entry will depend upon the permeability of the cell membrane.

Hypotonicity is a solution that causes cells to swell.

It may or may not have a lower osmotic pressure than the cell interior,
since the rate of water entry will depend upon the permeability of the cell membrane.

Isotonic is a solution that produces no change in cell volume.
(this is what you want your nute solution to be)

When a biological cell is in a hypotonic environment,
the cell interior accumulates water,
water flows across the cell membrane into the cell,
causing it to expand.

In plant cells,
the cell wall restricts the expansion,
resulting in pressure on the cell wall
from within called turgor pressure.

(Swollen cells,
like swollen ankles or hands,
are not as productive.)

If you are good at math,
and want to get your nute solution perfect,
the osmotic pressure of a dilute solution
can be calculated using this formula

whereas
i is the van 't Hoff factor
M is the molarity
R is the gas constant, where R = 0.08206 L · atm · mol-1 · K-1
T is the thermodynamic temperature (formerly called absolute temperature)

Note: the similarity of the above formula to the ideal gas law
and also that osmotic pressure is not dependent on particle charge.
This equation was derived by van 't Hoff.

Now doing this calculation would be nice
if there are any college math majors out there,
but I use this chart,
and it has worked well for me.


_____________________% of Nute Load________________

As you can see, 50-75% is very adequate,
and it has been my personal experience,
that I have improved yields
and better taste,
when I use the lower end of "Sufficient",
on that chart.

(*Dissolved Oxygen)
.
 

GetHighLikePlanes

Active Member
Hey P0t Sm0k3r,
Thanks for the info man. I was planning on starting with 1/4 of the recommended foxfarms nutes and work my way up to full strength. That thread lead me to some interesting cooling options too, so +rep for you man. Thanks!
 
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