Oxygenated Water
- Thread starter newGrows
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K J
Active Member
It wouldn't hurt but I reckon it's pretty pointless because as long as you aren't over watering then the roots get air as the soil dries but if you're growing in water you need the air stone so your roots don't drown. Air stones do speed up the dissipation of chlorine however so I guess they could be useful in that respect for soil grows.
Those are two valid use cases. I thought I read it's good to aerate nutes to promote aerobic bacteria (discourage anaerobic). That this is a concern for hydro. Could that also be a concern for soil using nutrients containing organic components?
Do you have a reference for that? I've been googling about "dissolved oxygen" and it sounds like o2 suspended in h2o doesn't dissipate out of suspension too quickly.
I think the value of DO is to the microbes in the soil, not for the roots. Even if the free (suspended) o2 molecules release back to the atmosphere, the atmosphere is the soil. It would have to percolate up to the top of the soil (where the air is), or exchange into pockets of air within the soil as water is consumed and the soil becomes dryer. Either way, a long path for the o2 to follow or o2 trapped in the soil, seems good.
This is a pretty good description of DO. (<<link). It doesn't say how long o2 remains in water. But, talks about still water being stratified with a significant layer containing DO just from surface contact with the air. Seems like a turbulent mixed contact with air would wouldn't go back to stagnated strata too quickly. Not the 5 minutes transferring aerating water from a bucket to a pour can, and then into the soil.
scarecrow77
Well-Known Member
When you water your plants the water pulls air into the soil giving the roots plenty of air....i try airstones aswell and found no diffrence...you have to have air stones in hydro because the roots a direcly in the rez .they.d suffocate and die without them...
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Hey AZ, I'm saying the DO levels will drop fast because that is what I have read in regards to AACT production where your tea is best served in the first 20 minutes after stopping air. Given that there is a super high level of bacteria in the tea consuming the oxygen, perhaps my statement does not apply here? In any event, you won't hurt anything bubbling your water but I don't think you'll get any benefit either if the source water is clean to begin with. The only way I could see it benefiting in a soil grow is where the soil is mixed so poorly that aeration cannot occur. The better solution is to fix your soil mix.
And to the guys microwaving the water...never mind, I can't think of any way to be polite.
Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
I've done a side by side with airstones in the soil on one clone, and no stone on the other. No difference whatsoever.
THCarlton
Active Member
I have no unique data to support my theory but everything I have heard about using microwaved water for plants is bad. At least certain plants can be killed(some in about a week) and I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe it to be beneficial.
I look at microwaved water being a stress so wether it kills your babies or not I would avoid it.
Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
What about the microwaved water is causing the problem?
Are you letting the microwaved water cool off before feeding?
Are you letting the microwaved water cool off before feeding?
THCarlton
Active Member
From what I understand microwaves can form carcinogenic free radicals, decrease "bio-availability of vitamin B complex, vitamin C, vitamin E, essential minerals" and cause a "reduction in the metabolic behavior and integration process capability of alkaloids, glucosides, galactosides, and nitrilosides."
Russian researchers found a correlation between microwave use and acceleration of structural degradation, leading to a decreased food value of 60 to 90% in all foods tested.
I don't use microwaved water. I can't prove that it's bad, it's just my opinion.
Russian researchers found a correlation between microwave use and acceleration of structural degradation, leading to a decreased food value of 60 to 90% in all foods tested.
I don't use microwaved water. I can't prove that it's bad, it's just my opinion.
Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
Im thinking that since most foods contain a shit ton of water, then maybe eating microwaved foods is a bad idea..
newGrows
Active Member
I would think yes, but the link you provided said that algae and other such life only need 1 mg/L which probably doesn't need to be pumped in artificially. It seems like it is at worst not a problem to add oxygen… though i think hydrogen peroxide and DO are not equal and that adding H2O2 is more like a poison than using an airstone to add more free O2. Also I don't know what the beneficial microbes are, maybe they need more oxygen than algae.
At the risk of derailing my own thread, the whole point of this question was to find ways to get oxygen to roots at the same level as aeroponics while using soil. This concern came up because i killed my first plants
and got fungus gnats.Having looked at how soil reacts to water, it looks like almost anything other than perlite is going to tighten up when wet and completely close off the roots and microbes that are at that level to the surrounding air, and most soil seems to stay wet (except for maybe an inch or inch and a half) for days at a time. This is why I still think the answer to your question is yes and I still can't figure out how plants and microbes survive in regular soil (the kind without people helping). It's like they can live without oxygen for days but i want to give them a continuous supply so its not water or oxygen its water and oxygen.
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Read "Teaming With Microbes" and you'll understand the soil food web pretty well. You will learn that your microbes create the channels for oxygen to be contained at a microscopic level between particles of soil and mineral. When you water you push out the old air and pull in fresh air. This is all the oxygen your microbes need. Nobody is pumping air into soil to increase yields because it isn't necessary. You just need a good soil mix.I would think yes, but the link you provided said that algae and other such life only need 1 mg/L which probably doesn't need to be pumped in artificially. It seems like it is at worst not a problem to add oxygen… though i think hydrogen peroxide and DO are not equal and that adding H2O2 is more like a poison than using an airstone to add more free O2. Also I don't know what the beneficial microbes are, maybe they need more oxygen than algae.
At the risk of derailing my own thread, the whole point of this question was to find ways to get oxygen to roots at the same level as aeroponics while using soil. This concern came up because i killed my first plants
Having looked at how soil reacts to water, it looks like almost anything other than perlite is going to tighten up when wet and completely close off the roots and microbes that are at that level to the surrounding air, and most soil seems to stay wet (except for maybe an inch or inch and a half) for days at a time. This is why I still think the answer to your question is yes and I still can't figure out how plants and microbes survive in regular soil (the kind without people helping). It's like they can live without oxygen for days but i want to give them a continuous supply so its not water or oxygen its water and oxygen.
Okallright
Well-Known Member
i listen to this guy^^^ itchy Mc itchy
Looks good! Found a download. (<<link)
Was that your only grow, or have you had a successful one since? Why do you feel it was related to lack of oxygen in the soil? I think first-time mistakes are poor-draining soil, over-watering, using tap water with too high ppm and/or chlorine, not ph'ing the nutes. I think it's hard to kill a plant if you don't do those things.This concern came up because i killed my first plants
I get gnats when I use molasses. Put a layer of diatomaceous earth on the topsoil cuts up the gnats as they enter the soil to lay eggs. Put pantyhose on the bottom of the container to keep gnats from using the drainage holes. Those yellow sticky cards can keep populations in check. They're laminated. You can reuse by lifting off the goo with a razor blade. Then apply a new layer of Tangle-Trap Sticky Coating. (<<link)
youngbuzz101
Well-Known Member
Pumping oxygen into your water isn't really as necessary as you would think you could bubble your water all day long but depending on your altitude (above sea level) your solution can only hold so much dissolved oxygen before it super saturates.
- Supersaturation is a state of a solution that contains more of the dissolved material than could be dissolved by the solvent under normal circumstances. It can also refer to a vapor of a compound that has a higher (partial) pressure than the vapor pressure of that compound.
The rate of diffusion exceeds the rate at which your plants can utilize that oxygen. All your doing is momentarily super saturating your water with oxygen. But unless your grow altitude is high up above sea level aka mountain terrain your solution cannot hold all the oxygen your are pumping through it usually your water will already have generous amounts of water in it unless you have say a goldfish in it consuming the oxygen supply. Your not really adding any more oxygen into your solution as it will be released into the air by the time you feed your plants via molecular diffusion. Your water will although hold the amount of oxygen that can easily remain in your solution at your altitudes pressure, thank gravity. The only time aeration is necessary is brewing tea and hydroponics.
Plants outdoors don't have bubbling water before they get water, the water falling from the sky is already infused with all the oxygen it needs. By the time you mix your nutrients and the oxygen gained while the solution is suspended in air and hits and mixes with soil is enough in oxygen to water transfusion to let your plants breath. If your plant is struggling from a lack of oxygen it is not your water it is your medium. College chemistry 101..
Is that a good comparison? According to the link I posted, the surface area of water contributes to its DO. A gallon of water dispersed as droplets will have vastly more surface area than that same gallon of water sitting in a container (with, say, 10 square inches of surface).
I agree. I think DO is more for the organisms in the soil than it is for the roots. Roots benefit indirectly.
Michiganja Meduana
Active Member
As far as gnats go, you need http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethrum
and get this stuff. end game on the gnats. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0PX18P5937&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-_-pla-_-Pest+Contol-_-9SIA0PX18P5937
2 drops in 5 gallons, let it sit in the lights for a couple days with an airstone in it, and your gnat problem will be over in a couple weeks. It breaks the life cycle.
I had these things like a plague, when they are gone, the plant growth explodes.
oh yeah, yellow sticky traps...
and get this stuff. end game on the gnats. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0PX18P5937&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleMKP&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleMKP-_-pla-_-Pest+Contol-_-9SIA0PX18P5937
2 drops in 5 gallons, let it sit in the lights for a couple days with an airstone in it, and your gnat problem will be over in a couple weeks. It breaks the life cycle.
I had these things like a plague, when they are gone, the plant growth explodes.
oh yeah, yellow sticky traps...
youngbuzz101
Well-Known Member
Yeah I agree the surface area does contribute to to concentration of DO but a certain amount of oxygen will always remain in the water unless consumed by either chemical reaction or organisims. If you bubble your water the majority of air being pushed through your solution is released as pressure forces it out the top of the vimiscous. Also since the water has been over oxygenated the diffusion of oxygen into the air will increase exponentially in order to reach an equilibrium within the solution. I think there is some benefit don't get me wrong just not enough to be concerned about. I still think it should be left for teas and hydro its just an extra step more placebo than anything you would be better off hooking up air lines from your pump into your soil directly..