Over Cloning and Lost Potency

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
Still no science either ??? well unless we count tellin us to google big words that we already understand and know about ???
I guess I lost this one. I'm out.

I understand the chimera. I understand apical organization (isn't that what topping and LST help sort out?) and I understand your chances of getting a chimera are higher if there are more cells to replicate. I told him all this with a direct quote from wikipedia but he still won't just BACK UP HIS CLAIM!

YOU HEAR ME @Bangaman !?!?!

Please show me where a chimera results in a loss of potency...like you are originally claiming in your very first post. Isn't that the gist of all this? Or did you just want to tell us things we already know?

Either way, unless his very next post is something tangible that shows results, outcomes, data...anything, then I'm moving on.
 
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Bangaman

Active Member
It's not even a debate at this point. I'm just asking questions and getting zero relative answers. :/

Disappointing really, I like being proven wrong.
Much appreciated. no hurt here. Questions for Clarification are good no matter what.

This is is the reason leaves are our main indicator for nutrient burn, what we put in the plant goes straight to the top
 

Bangaman

Active Member
I guess I lost this one. I'm out.

I understand the chimera. I understand apical organization (isn't that what topping and LST help sort out?) and I understand your chances of getting a chimera are higher if there are more cells to replicate. I told him all this with a direct quote from wikipedia but he still won't just BACK UP HIS CLAIM!

YOU HEAR ME @Bangaman !?!?!

Please show me where a chimera results in a loss of potency...like you are originally claiming in your very first post. Isn't that the gist of all this? Or did you just want to tell us things we already know?

Either way, unless his very next post is something tangible that shows results, outcomes, data...anything, then I'm moving on.
Do you need a picture of potency? Or are my explanations of flower / apical mutations not enough? Sounds to me you are stuck on something or I am not being clear
 

Bangaman

Active Member
A Chimera has a different Phenotype than the mother.

Phenotype: The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences. The expression of a specific trait, such as stature or blood type, based on genetic and environmental influences.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/phenotype

Mutations are random and will not always result in biochemical characteristics of an organism as in this case potency. We are talking odds here

I hope that answers it
 

Dr.Pecker

Well-Known Member
So now you're saying its random? The only loss of potency I've experienced is when I messed something up. Some of my plants are ten years old.
 
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Bangaman

Active Member
I guess I lost this one. I'm out.

I understand the chimera. I understand apical organization (isn't that what topping and LST help sort out?) and I understand your chances of getting a chimera are higher if there are more cells to replicate. I told him all this with a direct quote from wikipedia but he still won't just BACK UP HIS CLAIM!

YOU HEAR ME @Bangaman !?!?!

Please show me where a chimera results in a loss of potency...like you are originally claiming in your very first post. Isn't that the gist of all this? Or did you just want to tell us things we already know?

Either way, unless his very next post is something tangible that shows results, outcomes, data...anything, then I'm moving on.
Bye.
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
A Chimera has a different Phenotype than the mother.

Phenotype: The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences. The expression of a specific trait, such as stature or blood type, based on genetic and environmental influences.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/phenotype

Mutations are random and will not always result in biochemical characteristics of an organism as in this case potency. We are talking odds here

I hope that answers it
Dude...what does apical dominance and chimera have to do with a loss in potency? That is what this whole thread is about and you keep avoiding the question.

Your claim: Don't clone. Because chimeras and loss of potency.

My counter-point: Prove to me that chimeras cause a loss in potency.

Your counter-point: A lot of text explaining things we already know.

Verdict: You're an idiot, at least when it comes to staying in context and actually delivering the information that has been requested of you.

I didn't ask for you to explain apical dominance/organization to me. I learned about it when I was researching topping and LST.

I didn't ask for your grape information about cloning (which supports MY point not your's.)

And I didn't ask you to explain chimeras to me.

I'M FUCKING ASKING YOU HOW THE FUCK DOES A CHIMERA RESULT IN A LOSS OF POTENCY YOU IMPOTENT NON-ANSERING BEAT AROUND THE BUSH MOTHER FUCKER.

People like you really fuck me off because you don't realize how fucking stupid you actually are. I don't care if it does break RIU rules, fuck you, fuck you, and fuck you again for being such a dismissive asshole and not answering the god damn question the first time around like I fucking asked you to.

HOW DOES IT LOSE POTENCY IT FUCKING DOESN'T WHY BECAUSE YOU'RE FUCKING WRONG AND YOU CAN'T PRODUCE ONE FUCKING SHRED OF FUCKING EVIDENCE TO FUCKING SUPPORT YOUR FUCKING CLAIM YOU FUCKICKY FUCK MCFUCKERTON FUCKFACE SHIT EATING BITCH.


Now kindly...fuck off.
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
So now you're saying its random? The only loss of potency I've experienced is when I messed something up. Some of my plants are ten years old.
That is exactly it.

Basically what OP is saying is that if you take a larger clone there are more cells that could potentially mutate and become a chimera which in turn COULD result in a myriad of slight unnoticeable change/changes in your plants genetic structure and how it grows.

But OP jumps the shark by further claiming it to lead in a loss of potency which he then quickly dismisses by admitting it's a one in a billion chance that could actually happen.

OP is a troll or an idiot, maybe both. Either way keep him the hell away from my garden before he decides fertilizing with his own piss is a great idea too.

Edit: Also, fuck @Bangaman.
 

Bangaman

Active Member
He forgets, I am staunch believer in that it is impossible to change potency by conning. This my attempt to explain the many claims that over cloning will result in a change in potency.

These are claims, a friend who stands by this claim had me do a "smoke test" so I decided to look into it and though there is no specific research pointing to potency loss due to cloning quit to the contrary(see my post about grape cloning), the science does show that cutting size and or the use of sterilants causes chimerism in flowering plant. Now whether this chimerism translates to lower potency is still up for debate, but according to my research, if cloning of the a plant led to lower potency, the culprits can only be clone size and the use of mutagens as sterilizers. Not excessive cloning

That is my conclusion
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
You are stupid. Did you even read my posts. I bet you failed reading comprehension really badly. This is not the place to ask sideways questions about your inbred status from your maternal uncle Dick and mommy
"Many people have said over cloning will result in a reduced potency. I was one of the few that said it is impossible, that the biology shows if this did happen, it would be 1 in many million."

This is the very first sentence you made.

"The trouble is that many people including some growers I know personally have claimed potency loss. I even tried some from a friend who called me over just to prove his point. Indeed he was right."

Your second sentence literally says potency loss is correct.

"Those folks like myself who take smaller clones and do not use sterilizers never experienced potency loss and vice versa."

Vice Versa meaning those who do take larger clones will experience potency loss.

You're specifically talking about potency loss and how you learned about chimeras and then continue onto cloning and etc, etc.

I've read all your posts. I do read, I know how to read.

What you don't know how to do is back up what you're saying with actual evidence. Not "I smoked with a friend."

No. That isn't evidence.

If what you're suggesting is that a chimera can have an effect on potency then you are right but I already stated that previously.

"These chimeras arise by spontaneous or induced mutation of a nuclear gene to a dominant or recessive allele. As a rule one character is affected at a time in the leaf, flower, fruit, or other parts. This seems to be what you're referring to as a mutation. It does say it can affect one character but is this necessarily always going to be a loss in potency? Couldn't this chimerism result in an increase in potency potentially?"

Taken straight from my first reply.

You're just changing your claim to not look stupid. Through your grape information and further discussion of chimera you come to the conclusion that not excessive cloning but clone size and sterelizers result in chimeras which result in loss of potency...but you still haven't actually shown that clone size, sterelizers, chimeras, or any of these things affect potency. You keep beating around the bush and explaining all the terms to me like I'm some sort of an idiot or something.

I totally understand what you're saying and I even fucking agree with you but you won't answer my original question to your original assertion and conclusion that by taking smaller cuttings you're avoiding potency loss...which you haven't proven. The chimeras can literally result in a billion different genetic make ups which may or may not affect potency, you said that yourself in this very thread.

So, besides smoking with your friends where is the proof that any of this leads to lowered potency? Stop avoiding the question and just answer. If you don't know or your claim isn't that it lowers potency then admit you don't know or that your OP is wrong. If you DO KNOW please share with me the emperical evidence that proves this. A simple lab test on a chimera clone compared to a non-chimera from the same mother would clear this up right away but I doubt you have that.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Variegated (chimera)cat? View attachment 3669241 dog?
In plants we call this variegation View attachment 3669247View attachment 3669248 To my knowledge no loss in potency.
Now see, I and others have learned many things :). And u can tell em RM, you've been chased out of here by the pitchfork wielding crowd many times under many names. Lol. And yes it's due to your weird ways, you know, light, water, etc. Boiling water is just to much work though. Now back to the lack of potency thing, I think or perhaps no lack of potency, hmmmm.
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
Listen Darnell, can I call you by your real name, Darnell?

Now that you know where he is, uncle Dick asks when he can visit your mother
I don't know what joke you're trying to make but you're obviously avoiding answering the questions with anything real and tangible. It's why you avoid half my posts I've made in both your threads.
 

KryptoBud

Well-Known Member
There is no magic to growing Cannabis, and there is no method out there better than the last. If something works or you think it will work for you do it and find out for yourself. Do not get caught up with people in forums who say or think their way is gospel.
 

bryan oconner

Well-Known Member
I like this topic I have been saying this for a long time always getting shot down . that's why you plant a seed keep that plant and keep cloning off the mother plant never lose the genetics. people say im full of shit lost genetics after cloning a clone. and doing it again .
 
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