Over 26 dead in school shooting

desert dude

Well-Known Member
why does it have to be 100%? anything would help with respect to preventing or mitigating these types of tragedies.
Imagine if ten percent of the teachers at Sandy Hook had been armed. The outcome might have been substantially different.

Here is one such solution:

"It took place at a university in Virginia. A student with a grudge, an immigrant, pulled a gun and went on a shooting spree. It wasn’t Virginia Tech at all. It was the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, not far away. You can easily drive from the one school to the other, just take a trip down Route 460 through Tazewell.

It was January 16, 2002 when Peter Odighizuwa came to campus. He had been suspended due to failing grades. Odighizuwa was angry and waving a gun calling on students to “come get me”. The students, seeing the gun, ran. A shooting spree started almost immediately. In seconds Odighizuwa had killed the school dean, a professor and one student. Three other students were shot as well, one in the chest, one in the stomach and one in the throat.

Many students heard the shots. Two who did were Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges. Mikael was outside the school having just returned to campus from lunch when he heard the shots. Tracy was inside attending class. Both immediately ran to their cars. Each had a handgun locked in the vehicle.

Bridges pulled a .357 Magnum pistol and he later said he was prepared to shoot to kill if necessary. He and Gross both approached Odighizuwa at the same time from different directions. Both were pointing their weapons at him. Bridges yelled for Odighizuwa to drop his weapon. When the shooter realized they had the drop on him he threw his weapon down. A third student, unarmed, Ted Besen, approached the killer and was physically attacked.

But Odighizuwa was now disarmed. The three students were able to restrain him and held him for the police. Odighizuwa is now in prison for the murders he committed. His killing spree ended when he faced two students with weapons. There would be no further victims that day, thanks to armed resistance.

You wouldn’t know much about that though. Do you wonder why? The media, though it widely reported the attack left out the fact that Bridges and Gross were armed. Most simply reported that the gunman was jumped and subdued by other students. That two of those students were now armed didn’t get a mention."
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
Imagine if ten percent of the teachers at Sandy Hook had been armed. The outcome might have been substantially different.

Here is one such solution:

"It took place at a university in Virginia. A student with a grudge, an immigrant, pulled a gun and went on a shooting spree. It wasn’t Virginia Tech at all. It was the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, not far away. You can easily drive from the one school to the other, just take a trip down Route 460 through Tazewell.

It was January 16, 2002 when Peter Odighizuwa came to campus. He had been suspended due to failing grades. Odighizuwa was angry and waving a gun calling on students to “come get me”. The students, seeing the gun, ran. A shooting spree started almost immediately. In seconds Odighizuwa had killed the school dean, a professor and one student. Three other students were shot as well, one in the chest, one in the stomach and one in the throat.

Many students heard the shots. Two who did were Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges. Mikael was outside the school having just returned to campus from lunch when he heard the shots. Tracy was inside attending class. Both immediately ran to their cars. Each had a handgun locked in the vehicle.

Bridges pulled a .357 Magnum pistol and he later said he was prepared to shoot to kill if necessary. He and Gross both approached Odighizuwa at the same time from different directions. Both were pointing their weapons at him. Bridges yelled for Odighizuwa to drop his weapon. When the shooter realized they had the drop on him he threw his weapon down. A third student, unarmed, Ted Besen, approached the killer and was physically attacked."
"Police reports later noted that two empty eight round magazines designed for Odighizuwa’s handgun were recovered. Most sources (including those quoting Virginia State Police spokesman Mike Stater) state that when Odighizuwa dropped the gun the magazine was empty.[14"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

they caught the guy but they didnt save anyone and as they didnt know each other they were pretty lucky to have found the right guy and not each other
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
"Police reports later noted that two empty eight round magazines designed for Odighizuwa’s handgun were recovered. Most sources (including those quoting Virginia State Police spokesman Mike Stater) state that when Odighizuwa dropped the gun the magazine was empty.[14"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

they caught the guy but they didnt save anyone and as they didnt know each other they were pretty lucky to have found the right guy and not each other

"Luke Woodham was a troubled teen. He felt no one really liked him. In 1997 he murdered his mother and put on a trench coat. He filled the pockets with ammunition and took a handgun to the Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi. In rapid succession killed two students and wounded seven others.

He had the incident planned out. He would start shooting students and continue until he heard police sirens in the distance. That would allow him time to get in his car and leave campus. From there he intended to go to the nearby Pearl Junior High School and start shooting again. How it would end was not clear. Perhaps he would kill himself or perhaps the police would finally catch up with him and kill him. Either way a lot more people were going to get shot and die.

What Woodham hadn’t planned for was the actions of Assistant Principal Joel Myrick. Myrick heard the gun shots. He couldn’t have a handgun in the school. But he did keep one locked in his vehicle in the parking lot. He ran outside and retrieved the gun.

As Myrick headed back toward the school Woodham was in his vehicle headed for his next intended target. Myrick aimed his gun at the shooter. The teen crashed his car when he saw the gun. Myrick approached the car and held a gun to the killer who surrendered immediately. There would be no further victims that day, thanks to armed resistance.

So you didn’t know about that. Neither did I until today. Eaves-Johnson wrote that there were “687 articles on the school shooting in Pearl, Miss. Of those, only 19 mentioned that” Myrick had used a gun to stop Woodham “four-and-a-half minutes before police arrived.”
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/when-mass-killers-meet-armed-resistance.html
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
"Police reports later noted that two empty eight round magazines designed for Odighizuwa’s handgun were recovered. Most sources (including those quoting Virginia State Police spokesman Mike Stater) state that when Odighizuwa dropped the gun the magazine was empty.[14"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

they caught the guy but they didnt save anyone and as they didnt know each other they were pretty lucky to have found the right guy and not each other
Forgive me if I am less than enthusiastic about the notion of a deranged killer running out of ammo as a deterrent.
 

Winter Woman

Well-Known Member
I take issue with the unstated end of the implied syllogism: that removing guns reduces violence, incl. deadly violence. cn

<edit> I am incorrect. Britain has a lower murder rate than the USA. cn
CN, is that data adjusted for the differences in population?
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
Forgive me if I am less than enthusiastic about the notion of a deranged killer running out of ammo as a deterrent.
dont forget chances of innocents being hit by even trained police
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/27/us-usa-shooting-empirestate-police-idUSBRE87Q04X20120827

All nine of the bystanders wounded on Friday near the Empire State Building were hit by police gunfire, six by bullet fragments, when officers fatally shot a man who had killed a former coworker, authorities confirmed on Saturday.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member

squarepush3r

Well-Known Member
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-15/newtown-shooter-had-asperger-syndrome-and-some-us-gun-facts

read more at link above!

Newtown Shooter Had Asperger Syndrome, And Some US Gun Facts
(Edit: Should also be noted that the Colorado shooter also had Aspergers)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/15/2012 11:26 -0500

Update: The focus now shifts to the mother, the first casualty of her son's murderous rampage, who was a "big, big gun fan" as the NYT explains, and who went target shooting with her children, one of whom had Asperger's.
From the NYT:
She was &#8220;a big, big gun fan&#8221; who went target shooting with her children, according to friends. She enjoyed craft beers, jazz and landscaping. She was generous to strangers, but also high-strung, as if she were holding herself together.

Nancy Lanza was the first victim in a massacre carried out on Friday by her son Adam Lanza, 20, who shot her dead with a gun apparently drawn from her own collection, then drove her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 26 people, 20 of them small children, officials said.

At craft beer tastings on Tuesday evenings, he recalled, she liked to talk about her gun collection.

&#8220;She had several different guns,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I don&#8217;t know how many. She would go target shooting with her kids.&#8221;

Law enforcement officials said they believed that the guns were acquired lawfully and registered.

* * *

She was &#8220;a big, big gun fan,&#8221; he added on his Web site.
Read on here
* * *
As we reported last night, buried inside the NYT biopic of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza was arguably one of the most important missing pieces in the story, at least so far, which could provide clues into partially explaining yesterday's tragic loss of young life, namely that the 20 year old man suffered from Asperger Syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism (two conditions which are being merged in the upcoming update of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-5) manual of mental disorders), which has been traditionally associated with social communication difficulties, including flat affect, and one which in some clinical studies has been shown to have a causal link to violence. In other words, in addition to the surge in the debate over national gun control and access limitations (ignoring that the perpetrator of the biggest school mass murder in US history - the Bath School disaster - used openly purchased dynamite and no guns, also ignoring that in the US there are roughly 300 million firearms), perhaps there should also be a broad discussion as to the risks of social misadoption of children with autism and other social and behavioral disorders.
From CBS/AP:
He was an honors student who lived in a prosperous neighborhood with his mother, a well-liked woman who enjoyed hosting dice games and decorating the house for the holidays.

Now Adam Lanza is suspected of killing his mother and then gunning down more than two dozen people, 20 of them children, at a Connecticut grade school before taking his own life.

The 20-year-old may have suffered from a personality disorder, law enforcement officials said.

The New York Times reported Saturday morning that several people told the newspaper that Lanza had Asperger&#8217;s syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism.

The Times reported Lanza did not have a Facebook page and did not pose for a high school yearbook picture.

He was described as socially awkward and was known in high school as &#8220;intelligent, but nervous and fidgety, spitting his words out, as if having to speak up were painful.&#8221;

Investigators were trying to learn as much as possible about Lanza and questioned his older brother, who is not believed to have any involvement in the rampage.

Lanza killed his mother at their home before driving her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School and &#8212; armed with at least two handguns &#8212; carried out the massacre, officials said.

A third weapon, a .223-caliber rifle, was found in the car, and more guns were found inside the school.

So far, authorities have not spoken publicly of any possible motive. Witnesses said the shooter didn&#8217;t utter a word.

Catherine Urso, who was attending a vigil Friday evening in Newtown, Conn., said her college-age son knew the killer and remembered him for his alternative style.

&#8220;He just said he was very thin, very remote and was one of the goths,&#8221; she said.

* * *

Adam Lanza&#8217;s older brother, 24-year-old Ryan Lanza of Hoboken, N.J., was being questioned, a law enforcement official said. He told authorities that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record about the unfolding investigation.

The official did not elaborate, and it was unclear exactly what type of disorder he might have had.

Ryan Lanza had been extremely cooperative and was not under arrest or in custody, but investigators were still searching his computers and phone records. Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010.

* * *

Adam Lanza attended Newtown High School, and several local news clippings from recent years mention his name among the school&#8217;s honor roll students.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-15/newtown-shooter-had-asperger-syndrome-and-some-us-gun-facts

read more at link above!

Newtown Shooter Had Asperger Syndrome, And Some US Gun Facts
(Edit: Should also be noted that the Colorado shooter also had Aspergers)

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/15/2012 11:26 -0500

Update: The focus now shifts to the mother, the first casualty of her son's murderous rampage, who was a "big, big gun fan" as the NYT explains, and who went target shooting with her children, one of whom had Asperger's.
From the NYT:
She was &#8220;a big, big gun fan&#8221; who went target shooting with her children, according to friends. She enjoyed craft beers, jazz and landscaping. She was generous to strangers, but also high-strung, as if she were holding herself together.

Nancy Lanza was the first victim in a massacre carried out on Friday by her son Adam Lanza, 20, who shot her dead with a gun apparently drawn from her own collection, then drove her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 26 people, 20 of them small children, officials said.

At craft beer tastings on Tuesday evenings, he recalled, she liked to talk about her gun collection.

&#8220;She had several different guns,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I don&#8217;t know how many. She would go target shooting with her kids.&#8221;

Law enforcement officials said they believed that the guns were acquired lawfully and registered.

* * *

She was &#8220;a big, big gun fan,&#8221; he added on his Web site.
Read on here
* * *
As we reported last night, buried inside the NYT biopic of Newtown shooter Adam Lanza was arguably one of the most important missing pieces in the story, at least so far, which could provide clues into partially explaining yesterday's tragic loss of young life, namely that the 20 year old man suffered from Asperger Syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism (two conditions which are being merged in the upcoming update of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-5) manual of mental disorders), which has been traditionally associated with social communication difficulties, including flat affect, and one which in some clinical studies has been shown to have a causal link to violence. In other words, in addition to the surge in the debate over national gun control and access limitations (ignoring that the perpetrator of the biggest school mass murder in US history - the Bath School disaster - used openly purchased dynamite and no guns, also ignoring that in the US there are roughly 300 million firearms), perhaps there should also be a broad discussion as to the risks of social misadoption of children with autism and other social and behavioral disorders.
From CBS/AP:
He was an honors student who lived in a prosperous neighborhood with his mother, a well-liked woman who enjoyed hosting dice games and decorating the house for the holidays.

Now Adam Lanza is suspected of killing his mother and then gunning down more than two dozen people, 20 of them children, at a Connecticut grade school before taking his own life.

The 20-year-old may have suffered from a personality disorder, law enforcement officials said.

The New York Times reported Saturday morning that several people told the newspaper that Lanza had Asperger&#8217;s syndrome, a high-functioning form of autism.

The Times reported Lanza did not have a Facebook page and did not pose for a high school yearbook picture.

He was described as socially awkward and was known in high school as &#8220;intelligent, but nervous and fidgety, spitting his words out, as if having to speak up were painful.&#8221;

Investigators were trying to learn as much as possible about Lanza and questioned his older brother, who is not believed to have any involvement in the rampage.

Lanza killed his mother at their home before driving her car to Sandy Hook Elementary School and &#8212; armed with at least two handguns &#8212; carried out the massacre, officials said.

A third weapon, a .223-caliber rifle, was found in the car, and more guns were found inside the school.

So far, authorities have not spoken publicly of any possible motive. Witnesses said the shooter didn&#8217;t utter a word.

Catherine Urso, who was attending a vigil Friday evening in Newtown, Conn., said her college-age son knew the killer and remembered him for his alternative style.

&#8220;He just said he was very thin, very remote and was one of the goths,&#8221; she said.

* * *

Adam Lanza&#8217;s older brother, 24-year-old Ryan Lanza of Hoboken, N.J., was being questioned, a law enforcement official said. He told authorities that his brother was believed to suffer from a personality disorder, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record about the unfolding investigation.

The official did not elaborate, and it was unclear exactly what type of disorder he might have had.

Ryan Lanza had been extremely cooperative and was not under arrest or in custody, but investigators were still searching his computers and phone records. Ryan Lanza told law enforcement he had not been in touch with his brother since about 2010.

* * *

Adam Lanza attended Newtown High School, and several local news clippings from recent years mention his name among the school&#8217;s honor roll students.
I have Asperger's and guns. The chances of my getting impolite in public, or around anybody, with a gun are effectively zero. Let's not add demonizing Aspergerites to the ongoing show trial for guns in the USA. cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Forgive me if I am less than enthusiastic about the notion of a deranged killer running out of ammo as a deterrent.
It does deflate the initial argument though ... that the armed responders in that case saved any lives. Unless the papers somehow failed to mention four loaded mags on the assailant's person ... not impossible, that. cn
 

Clonex

Well-Known Member
You guys also don't have a constitution that guarantees the right to keep and bear arms. The reason America has that constitutional guarantee is because of our experience with the British.

What the British have is an over arching, oppressive nanny state. American liberals drool with envy over your CONTROLS but, personally, I will pass.

Remember the Cumbria massacre? How about the Hungerford massacre? How about the Dunblane massacre?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

"The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre and the 1996 Dunblane massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history."
Ok I live here , I didn't say I was British did I ?
There are no mass shootings. Fact.(recent history since the law was changed)
The rest was air to me.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Ok I live here , I didn't say I was British did I ?
There are no mass shootings. Fact.(recent history since the law was changed)
The rest was air to me.
Do you own a gun? Do you enjoy shooting? Do you deny the utility of firearms when resisting a despotic government?
 

Clonex

Well-Known Member
How many ppl were shot in Cumbria , hardly a mass shootin
I don't actually own any live shot fire arms only air powered rifles for target shooting
I didn't say the UK was perfect just that the gun laws seem to make a difference . . .
It can happen in any country , look at Norway last year
I'm not here for an argument but it is obvious to me and many others that the gun laws in the USA are not working
Everyone who is pro gun and owns one will say they are responsible , until they are taken to the edge of have a breakdown of some kind, how could they possibly know ?
What important here , innocent kids being slaughtered or the rights of a few gun slingers ?
 

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
And innocent kids die more by drowning and getting hit on thier bikes and soda machines falling on them than do by firearms.
 

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
Man that makes no sense at all.

and 12dead is "hardly a mass shooting"?

You should check facts before you make comments about a "few gun slingers". There are almost 100,000,000 gun owners here.

Why should my rights be infringed by someone who is not even from the US?




How many ppl were shot in Cumbria , hardly a mass shootin
I don't actually own any live shot fire arms only air powered rifles for target shooting
I didn't say the UK was perfect just that the gun laws seem to make a difference . . .
It can happen in any country , look at Norway last year
I'm not here for an argument but it is obvious to me and many others that the gun laws in the USA are not working
Everyone who is pro gun and owns one will say they are responsible , until they are taken to the edge of have a breakdown of some kind, how could they possibly know ?
What important here , innocent kids being slaughtered or the rights of a few gun slingers ?
 
Top