• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

Obama loses another democrat in congress

doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
matthew said:
I think you missed the point. We can talk all day long about how much we love freedom and how we want our representatives to "follow the constitution" but that is worthless till you can nail down specifics.

Specificly what do we do to get this smaller government you want? Do we bring our military spending in line with the rest of the world? Do we cut social programs, which ones? Do we stop regulating products like China? No matter what you do there will be MILLIONS of people who are hurt.

Bringing back jobs sounds good till you realize that globalization is the only reason our shit is so cheap. Protectionist policies on trade would destroy wal-mart's business model putting the 2nd largest employer in the country (and millions of people) at risk. Hate on wal-mart all you want but a dramatic slowdown or god forbid a collapse would probably take a big chunk of our economy with it.

Manufacturing will slowly come back to the US but only after the Chinese develop a middle class and start buying their cheap shit from Vietnam, Eastern Europe and us.
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I'm not a policy maker. I don't pretend to know how to go about it. We are being hurt right now! I think that govt. played an enormous role in getting us into the shit pile we are in. They have too much power. I'd certainly like to see less waste. It's something a lot of politicians talk about but do nothing about. For example. We got a fucking letter from the census telling us that we would be receiving our census packet. Seriously? You need to send me some shit in order to let me know I will be receiving some more shit. But it's only a letter, right? Multiply the cost of that one letter times how ever many millions of households they sent that shit out to. It starts to add up quickly. We need to get back to what made this country great in the first place. More personal responsibility and self sufficiency for starters. bongsmilie:peace:
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
matthew said:
This is what scares the shit out of me. Have this many Americans become so dumb that they are pushing for less regulation right after the 2nd largest economic crisis in our history was directly caused by deregulation.
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This is the problem. Some of us see govt. as the solution whereas some of us see govt. as the problem. I don't think deregulation is what hurt us. A big part of it was an SEC that became way too cozy witht the industry it was supposed to oversee. There were regulations in place which weren't followed. Why don't we try actually enforcing existing regulations before we strangle business with even more impossible to follow rules. :peace:
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
matthew said:
Is that why it was so easy to get single payer healthcare passed? Reality contradicts the narrative you have created.
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Reality is that the dem party has been hijacked by the hard left and the hard left will never allow Bayh to be nominated. The left may be fucking up all over the place, but they will still control the nomination process in 2012. Now where's the reality that contradicts that?
 
laughingduck

laughingduck

Well-Known Member
matthew said:
This is what scares the shit out of me. Have this many Americans become so dumb that they are pushing for less regulation right after the 2nd largest economic crisis in our history was directly caused by deregulation.
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REALLY! I think it has been traced back to the community reinvestment act. Maybe you missed the part where the feds are putting quotas on financial institutions to loan to folks who would not pay.
 
M

matthew

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
I'm not a policy maker. I don't pretend to know how to go about it. We are being hurt right now! I think that govt. played an enormous role in getting us into the shit pile we are in. They have too much power. I'd certainly like to see less waste. It's something a lot of politicians talk about but do nothing about. For example. We got a fucking letter from the census telling us that we would be receiving our census packet. Seriously? You need to send me some shit in order to let me know I will be receiving some more shit. But it's only a letter, right? Multiply the cost of that one letter times how ever many millions of households they sent that shit out to. It starts to add up quickly. We need to get back to what made this country great in the first place. More personal responsibility and self sufficiency for starters. bongsmilie:peace:
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Keep in mind that the best thing our government can do right now (during a recession) is put people to work and put money in their pockets. It might seem counterintuitive but cutting back drastically right now would cause a depression.

I am all for activism but at least know WHY you are pissed off.
 
M

matthew

Well-Known Member
laughingduck said:
REALLY! I think it has been traced back to the community reinvestment act. Maybe you missed the part where the feds are putting quotas on financial institutions to loan to folks who would not pay.
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Be more specific and provide citations.

Lets also be clear, the root cause of the recession today was toxic assets in the form of mortgage backed securities, right?
 
M

matthew

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
This is the problem. Some of us see govt. as the solution whereas some of us see govt. as the problem. I don't think deregulation is what hurt us. A big part of it was an SEC that became way too cozy witht the industry it was supposed to oversee. There were regulations in place which weren't followed. Why don't we try actually enforcing existing regulations before we strangle business with even more impossible to follow rules. :peace:
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How can you claim to have no idea whats going on in one post and then claim you know about economics?

Deregulation, specifically starting with the repeal of Glass–Steagall lead to irresponsible mortgages being bundled and sold as securities.

The de-fanging of current regulatory bodies that put them in the place they are in today is a direct result of Republican deregulation efforts. Instead of trying to abolish agencies they just allow bankers to write new regulations.

I don't see government as the solution to all or really many problems. I am a pretty self reliant type of person but I am also a realist and pretty well read.
 
M

matthew

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
Reality is that the dem party has been hijacked by the hard left and the hard left will never allow Bayh to be nominated. The left may be fucking up all over the place, but they will still control the nomination process in 2012. Now where's the reality that contradicts that?
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If the party has been hijacked then it should be a piece of cake to get radical ideas passed. At this point Republicans don't even oppose banning insurance companies from dropping sick people. In what universe is that radical?
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
matthew said:
How can you claim to have no idea whats going on in one post and then claim you know about economics?

Deregulation, specifically starting with the repeal of Glass–Steagall lead to irresponsible mortgages being bundled and sold as securities.

The de-fanging of current regulatory bodies that put them in the place they are in today is a direct result of Republican deregulation efforts. Instead of trying to abolish agencies they just allow bankers to write new regulations.

I don't see government as the solution to all or really many problems. I am a pretty self reliant type of person but I am also a realist and pretty well read.
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Please show me in any post that I have ever written where I claim to have any economics knowledge (other than a course in college and high school and what I read in the paper). I can see that you are trying to pick a fight with someone. Try someone else. I'm not interested. I told you already how I feel. It's my opinion and nothing more. I don't ever claim to know better than anyone else. It's my opinion that govt. is too large. It's my opinion that we need to become more self sufficient and being more responsible instead of blaming everyone else (I'm speaking as a society). It's my opinion that we need to drastically reduce spending and reduce waste. You go ahead and keep finger pointing and blaming the republicans. You seem like a smart guy so you should know that both parties suck and both are at fault. It wasn't one single republican or one single democrat that got us to where we are today. I do know that the SEC dropped the ball more than once. That's only one example of a regulatory body not doing its job. Our govt. has become way too cozy with lobbyists and big corportations. And why shouldn't they? I mean, that's where their bread is being buttered. :-P
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
matthew said:
Keep in mind that the best thing our government can do right now (during a recession) is put people to work and put money in their pockets. It might seem counterintuitive but cutting back drastically right now would cause a depression.

I am all for activism but at least know WHY you are pissed off.
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OK, where are all of these "jobs" the govt. is creating? We aren't getting any of them where I live. Roads and bridges are still crumbling. If you are going to prop up an economy with stimulus money where do you draw the line? When do you cut the cord? How long does the govt. keep extending unemployment? I think some stimulus spending probably was necessary but has it had the intended effect? These types of things are very difficult to quantify and aren't without consequence. People, like myself, are concerned about how do we transition from New Deal type of stimulus spending to a healthy economy and what type of fallout can we expect from this enormous deficit we are amassing. It doesn't seem like our leaders have much of a clue what their next move is. :joint:
 
ChChoda

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
doc111 said:
OK, where are all of these "jobs" the govt. is creating? We aren't getting any of them where I live. Roads and bridges are still crumbling. If you are going to prop up an economy with stimulus money where do you draw the line? When do you cut the cord? How long does the govt. keep extending unemployment? I think some stimulus spending probably was necessary but has it had the intended effect? These types of things are very difficult to quantify and aren't without consequence. People, like myself, are concerned about how do we transition from New Deal type of stimulus spending to a healthy economy and what type of fallout can we expect from this enormous deficit we are amassing. It doesn't seem like our leaders have much of a clue what their next move is. :joint:
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What bridges are crumbling?
 
edwardtheclean

edwardtheclean

Well-Known Member
Does it even matter though? my entire life i have known congress and the president to be slackers. maybe the GOP will take over congress and then the presidency, and then the dems will come back and so forth and so forth. its not that complicated either, they just make it that way. our political system is wac, and i thinks its peculiar that some people just realized it. alot of people voted for our Commander in Chief for all of this to stop, including me, but its unikely things will get to were they should be, on either side. its like a damn gang war in congress,
 
Iron, Lion, Zion

Iron, Lion, Zion

Active Member
ViRedd said:
Smaller government, lower taxes, fewer regulations?? I think that's what the TEA Party movement is all about. It is Middle America demanding a conservative/libertarian change in America. The TEA Party will align itself with the Republican Party by promoting real conservative candidates. Sarah Palin will be a driving force by supporting those candidates. Like I've said many times in this forum ... progressives and all of their socialist followers had better take Palin seriously, she's the real deal. I don't think she will be running for office herself, but like I said, she will be a great influence in the coming elections.

Come on doc ... we want to see you out there with your anti-big government sign in the next rally. :)
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Republican President with Ron Paul as the VP would be unstoppable. :bigjoint:
 
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