redi jedi
Well-Known Member
Save your cash...Alot of BS in that video. Water can only hold so much oxygen...and its not possible for water to hold as much oxygen as the air we breath..approx 20%
o2grow emitters better than just regular air stones?
- Thread starter 4x4Gamer
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growergirl65
Member
I still think it looks pretty amazing. Might have to investigate further.
Nunyabizz50
Member
and this can put close to 20% into the water Vs the 6-7% that air stones dissolve into the water, so more than double.
Then since the oxygen "created" is so small and heavier then it doesn't break the surface and stays in the water (you can visibly see this) with air stones you get at best about 9% if you're lucky with the best setups and after you turn the air off it starts to lose that oxygen very quickly.
With the electrolysis, it loses very little, in fact even days later the electrolysis water holds most of its DO.
It also does it (in a 5-gallon bucket) in about 1 to 3 hours vs 36 to 48 hours, plus it is dead silent instead of sounding like a garbage truck.
Then the regular stones and pump after hours, days of running heats up the water which defeats the whole purpose as the warmer the water gets the less oxygen it can hold so you have to have a chiller if using it for Hydroponics.
So you can run the very best bubbler set up with the best stones/diffusers and the best pumps and get maybe 9%, warmer water that holds less DO so you have to run a chiller, depending on your air pump you got 3 choices, fairly quiet cost about $25 and puts out nowhere near enough air to get 9% DO, one that's "commercial grade" that puts out plenty of air cost about $35 to $45 but sounds like a garbage truck, or you can get a nice pump that is both fairly quiet and puts out good air flow and that one will cost more than the Electrolysis system as a good pump is $200+ the best diaphragm diffusers about $20-$35 for a 7-9" one for 5-gal bucket, plus most likely a chiller if you're Hydroponic plus you run it constantly at a much higher electric cost.
Then you are putting more humidity into the air with the bubbler constantly going.
I think I will take the silent super oxygenated no heat version myself.
I am trying for a sort of 'HydroSoil" type thing, very loose, totally organic living soil in 7-10 gallon fabric pots, coco,peat,biochar,azomite,green sand,alfalfa meal, kelp meal, oyster shell flour,rice hulls, earth worms, lots of microbes, Recharge, Mammoth P so it's virtually impossible to overwater and once the plants get close to flower can be watered once a day maybe even twice with very oxygenated water.
Almost the speed of hydro, but with the much better taste and quality of soil.
I just bought the 2020 model for $228 so $115 for each electrode that will fully do a 5-gallon bucket in about an hour.
I think the two of them should last me about 5 years probably.
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Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
I'd love to use them but I run a 9-site dwc with a 10th 5 gal for the res. But like others have said, I I'm use a submersible pump in the res to pump my water to the tops of all my buckets in a waterfall style. So I wonder I'd I added one to just my res if it would be anything noticeable.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
So if my site recirculates through a pump to waterfalls on each bucket, I wonder if I used the o2 grow emitter in just the 5 gal res where the pump is, if it would distribute that DO to all the systems water or if it would dissapate once it's cimpressed into the supply line through the pump and out the waterfalls. ..
Nunyabizz50
Member
Hard to say, I hear that bubblers actually take out DO the emitters put in.
But just pumping to a waterfall I wouldn't think so.
Only way to really know is test it.
The only thing I am disappointed about with the emitters is that it creates chlorine if any salt of any kind is in the water.
I filter my water which starts at between 2.70 to 3.22 pm of total chlorine/chlorimine and after the filter it's between 0.03 to 0.13ppm
After running the emitter for one hour which is all that is needed to super-oxygenate 3 to 5 gallons of water my total chlorine goes up a bit to 0.66 to 1.00.
Other than that they work great, fast, silent.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
Well luckily, I use strictly R/O water.
MadNyeTheHydroGuy
Active Member
Ive been doing research into this all night since i was looking into fogger cloners on youtube and stumbled onto the o2 grow. Ive seen these generators built diy on the tubes before and im kicking myself for not thinking of this before. There are a couple of things to consider though.
Ive heard reports that CALMAG in the water will cause buildup on the metal plates, and the generator will affect the calcium levels in your water. I also saw a response from someone at O2 grow saying that as long as PPM is kept below 1000 (i think) it wont affect levels of disolved o2, and the generator can be cleaned by soaking in Muriatic Acid
Im going to look into this, because im pretty sure ive seen some videos on youtubers Nurdrage channel where he uses electrodes almost exactly similar to what O2 uses, and all the O2 grow is basically are the electrodes wires and a driver, it can absolutely be built for less than the ridiculous 200+ dollars O2 grow charges. I feel like there is alot of promise in this tech and i want to do a controlled experiment with strawberries where in the end we compare the results and see if the friut/root zone has any extra mass that would justify the 200+ for O2 grow or the effort to build one yourself. The only problem here is that i dont have a DO measuring device or really any meters at the moment. Keep an eye out for this experiment in the next month or so.
The generator actually wont work very well if the water is to pure. There has to be conductive impurities in the water for it to be efficient. Which RO water BY ITSELF is not good, but with nutrients mixed in you are good.
Ive heard reports that CALMAG in the water will cause buildup on the metal plates, and the generator will affect the calcium levels in your water. I also saw a response from someone at O2 grow saying that as long as PPM is kept below 1000 (i think) it wont affect levels of disolved o2, and the generator can be cleaned by soaking in Muriatic Acid
This is disheartening but might not be to much of an obstacle. Im almost positive there are hydro nutes that do not contain the nutrients in salt forms.
Im going to look into this, because im pretty sure ive seen some videos on youtubers Nurdrage channel where he uses electrodes almost exactly similar to what O2 uses, and all the O2 grow is basically are the electrodes wires and a driver, it can absolutely be built for less than the ridiculous 200+ dollars O2 grow charges. I feel like there is alot of promise in this tech and i want to do a controlled experiment with strawberries where in the end we compare the results and see if the friut/root zone has any extra mass that would justify the 200+ for O2 grow or the effort to build one yourself. The only problem here is that i dont have a DO measuring device or really any meters at the moment. Keep an eye out for this experiment in the next month or so.
Nunyabizz50
Member
You are correct in your research.
I will tell you what I have found out so far.
I have switched to RO and even some Deionized water that I have been buying from Wholefoods for .39 cents a gallon which frankly is cheaper than buying filters.
The RO water has PPM averaging about 0.012 the Deionized is a flat ZERO.
Both have zero chlorine.
The RO water will work with the Emitters but not nearly as quickly as if you put basically anything in the water, but after running for an hour there is still zero chlorine.
The Deionized water is around 5.7 pH and the RO about 7.7 to 8 so I sometimes mix the two and get a pH in the 6's.
Now as far as the emitters creating chlorine, that was just from my plain filtered water that still had trace amounts of chlorine usually 0.03 to about 0.13 and PPM of between 95 to 116 after being filtered, the natural salts in the water from the tap are what created the chlorine.
Now what I was doing to remove the chlorine was after using the emitters I would take the peels of one orange and throw them into the water and stir and leave them for 30 minutes the peels would neutralize all the chlorine AND Chloramine as tested with a Hanna Total Chlorine Tester.
I have a smoothie every morning and an orange is always in it so I have plenty of orange peels.
Straight deionized water doesn't work because it literally has nothing at all in it, the RO water does work just at a much-reduced capacity.
I have tried putting just Aphrodite's Extraction in the water which is basically just sucrose, fructose, chelated nutrients, vitamins, and organic acids and then the emitter creates an absolute fog of O2 nano-bubbles. None of my nutrients are supposed to have nitrates and salts.
Though I hate putting anything in the water prior to using the emitters because I am not sure exactly what it is doing to the nutrients.
I would never put in my Recharge or Mammoth P or any other microbes for instance before doing the electrolysis because I think it would just fry them.
So I mostly just use it with the RO water for about 45 minutes and then add just a splash of Aphrodite's and let it go another few minutes I can visibly see the oxygen in the water which is FAR more than any bubbler would ever produce even after days of bubbling away.
Also, I think the less there is in the water the longer the plates will last, I have one that I use and one for a spare so basically I bought two emitters and between them I hope for them to last about 5 years and that would be worth the $243 price tag if they do.
They are supposed to last 1600 hours I believe and I only need to use them about 3 hours a week at most and that is in flower, in Veg they don't need as much water so less usage. So technically I won't use these more than 160 hours a year max so IF they, in fact, go for 1600 hours then they should last me the rest of my life which is a really good deal.
As for the price, it is steep and I am sure you can jerry rig something to do basically the same thing.
I bought the 2020 emitter which comes with two of the emitters for 10 gallons and it cost $243 and I only do about 3 gallons at a time. With ideal water, the single emitter would totally oxygenate 3 gallons in about 20 minutes, with the RO it takes an hour which is still way better than the 48 hours of a standard pump and stone which can't equal 20 minutes of the emitter no matter how long you run them.
So far my plants seem to be loving the extra oxygen, one OG Kush, and one White Widow today is the first day of week 6 in flower, they should have 4 more weeks to go more or less and I suspect will be double this size by then.
No tent, no fancy anything, just grown in a bathtub in 7 gallon fabric pots with living organic soil, organic nutrients, under 614W of LED lighting.
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MadNyeTheHydroGuy
Active Member
How does this work? Do you have source for this process?
I know that O2 grow recommends running the system for 3 hours straight in a fresh res and then for only 15-30 mins every 3-4 hours after this to maintain DO levels. You can run for the initial saturation with just the water, then add the nutes. After that, the nutes are only going to get zapped 15-30 mins every few hours. Except for possibly the CalMag which does gunk to the anodes, i dont know if the nutes will be affected much. Im not very knowledgeable when it comes to chemistry, but i know that the system breaks down the water molecules by pushing electrons, so its most likely going to just break down the nutes. It sounds bad, but when you think about it, its most likely not. There is far, far more water than nutes in the mixture, and you arent losing much water when your breaking down the molecules, so im sure even less nutes are lost, and can most likely be compensated for during the period between res changes. Worst case scenario, the nutes have been bonded in a way to make them more biologically available to plants and breaking them down makes them less available or not at all. Maybe the nutes could be changed into something else like your salt into chlorine. It would be great if someone who knows more about chemistry could look into the chemical makeup of popular nutes and tell us how they would be affected by electrolysis.
I doubt bennies would be seriously affected, and if they were fried, it wouldn't be that many, just the few around the anodes. I know that O2 grow recomends their system for compost tea and mentions that the bennies benefit from the system, but that's not explicitly stating that its safe for them to be in the res with the system running. Unless theres a mass extinction, any loss would most likely be outweighed by the benefit of the increased aerobic environment.
Another thing to note is that someone who i believe wasnt with O2 grow stated that the micro bubbles produced by the generator are so small that they cant break the surface tension of the water and remain suspended until it can be absorbed.
It can definately be built for much less than what O2 charges. I saw a video of one that was built with scrap sheets of zinc from the inside of a PC and a power supply from an Xbox. You won't want to use zinc of course, and im not much of an electrician so i dont know if the xbox power supply is most efficient, but it can still be built on the cheap with quality parts. A COB led driver could power it and as for the anodes... Well its a toss up. So far im looking at platinized titanium and stainless steel, im still waiting on word from someone who knows more about these things than i do. But even with the more expensive option (platinized titanium) they come out to around 25-50 depending on the size from what ive seen. That still comes out to just over half of what O2 charges. Do you know what your anodes are? If not do you have a magnet? Could you tell me if your anodes are magnetic or not?
Oxygen is the most important nute for your plant. Its hard to believe that this isnt being talked about more among growers, or implemented much. Its a much more efficient way to do what a bubbler struggles to achieve at higher levels of DO for less power draw. I think people are just scared when their nutes are dicked with, and there just isnt much information out there for this as a viable hydroponic tech yet. I got my GalaxyHydro 300 watt (huge online sale, got it for 60 bucks new from galaxy) today, tomorrow im most likely going to shop around for supplies and hopefully ill have my controlled experiment up soon. I think im going to go with romaine lettuce instead of strawberries because they only take 30 days to mature
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MadNyeTheHydroGuy
Active Member
The more i look into this the less likely it seems to be a viable growing option...
At least during nute usage. For hydro growers that go through a flush period, where they run straight water through their system it would be great during this phase. Idk im still determined to find a way to make it work. I wish a user with some knowledge in chemistry would colab with me here
At least during nute usage. For hydro growers that go through a flush period, where they run straight water through their system it would be great during this phase. Idk im still determined to find a way to make it work. I wish a user with some knowledge in chemistry would colab with me here
Nunyabizz50
Member
Well working great for me in organic soil.
I use just a splash of Hades Down in the RO water and the emitter puts out a nice fog of bubbles.
And zero chlorine is created.
Then I just mix in my nutrients and it's good to go
MadNyeTheHydroGuy
Active Member
Are you boosting the system after nutes are added to maintain DO? If so how often? Are you noticing any deficiencies in your plants? Buildup on your system? Were you ever able to test the metal with a magnet? So many questions
Idk i want to get psyched about this but so far i still have a few concerns.Primarily, What are the nutes breaking down into? I doubt there is a terrible loss of the nutes themselves, but im concerned over the actual end result of electrolysis. Some nasty things can be created from using this system, primarily chlorine gas (though i doubt its enough to hurt us, im concerned for the plant...) i dont understand enough chem to figure out what is being created here.
Nunyabizz50
Member
Iam in SOIL.Are you boosting the system after nutes are added to maintain DO? If so how often? Are you noticing any deficiencies in your plants? Buildup on your system? Were you ever able to test the metal with a magnet? So many questions
Primarily, What are the nutes breaking down into? I doubt there is a terrible loss of the nutes themselves, but im concerned over the actual end result of electrolysis. Some nasty things can be created from using this system, primarily chlorine gas (though i doubt its enough to hurt us, im concerned for the plant...) i dont understand enough chem to figure out what is being created here.
Right now I am watering everyday with 2 gallons.
I run the emitter about 20 minutes in 2 gallons add nutrients then water plants.
So for my situation it works great.
For hydro, I don't know.
I do know that with my horrible tap water even after filtering out 99% of the chlorine what ever is left in the water created more chlorine so I used orange peels to neutralize it.
Adding nutrients into a DWC res I think you would have to be very careful what nutrients you use.
But if you could find the perfect nutrients then these emitters work way better than bubblers, they don't heat up the water, they are silent, almost no electricity cost and they super oxygenate the water which bubblers aren't even capable of.
Nunyabizz50
Member
I use Orange Peels.
Of course, I am not hydro though, just oxygenating water to use for soil.
Supposedly aquarium dechlorination drops work.
Trippyness
Well-Known Member
Old post but this is surly an account by a rep of this company
Forrestfirebuds
Member
Why do you use bases down? Do it help with the electrolysis process? I grow in soil also and would love increase my do
Nunyabizz50
Member
Hades Down is to bring the pH down to 6.4
Although now I just use coconut water and aloe vera juice added to the water to bring the pH down, works perfect.
There just needs to be something in the water for the electrolysis to work.