No one can figure this out!

I own a co-op in Oregon, and the partners have a combined experience of over 40 years. I am the owner and manager, and I come to you as a last resort to try and save a lovely lady whom none of us can figure out what is wrong with. I have exhausted every possible remedy I can imagine, and hope that a larger community can figure it out. I even consulted the local extension office to no avail. All the other ladies are growing spectacular. This is one of ... a lot. She was a mother, as were 12 others. I managed to put all the others into explosive veg mode, but not her. Everyone else is showing pistils, but not her. There were bug problems with several plants, including grindal worms, japanese cucumber beetles and fungus gnats. All known bugs are in check. The mother in question has no visible bugs above, or below 6 inches deep. All plants have a surplus of nutes, and micro-nutes, and have been innoculated with over 30 beneficial bacterium and microrhizae. The lady in question is neither over or under watered. But she is dying. I know this from my 7 years of experience. I wont be hurt in any way if she dies, but as a dedicated lover of cannabis plants, I want to know what went wrong, and maybe just maybe save her.

The lady in question is outdoors. She is in a bed of coco based soil. The soil mix is proven, with over 1000 sucessful plants as a basis (6-8 lbs dry yeild). All the other ladies are about 2-3 weeks from flowering, but she is dying, no pistils, and I am trimming off more dead leaves than new growth. I realize that she is probably a gonner. If she can be saved, great, but more importantly, I want to be a cannabis jedi master, and understand why she failed. Is it because she was a mother for too long? I managed to make the other mothers thrive, even though we thought many would not make it. My current theory is, I think she has a form of plant bazed cancer from old age. I have a clone who is quite simply retarded. She doesnt even know which way the sun is, and manages to grow half of her shoots inwards or towards the ground. Also said clone is extremely fragile and no one but me is allowed to touch it, because even the wind breaks stems.. Yet,she is starting to flower, and even though smaller, will outproduce this mother. I ruled out bad genes. All of her growth looks good, she just cant outpace the dying foliage. If one of your brilliant minds can deduce this problem, I will not only be very grateful, and give you a virtual cookie, but also maybe give you some other reward if possible. We are a fast expanding grow op, and in need of qualified growing managers. Anyhow, you need to be local. First figure out whats wrong with this poor lady! Other pics are of other parts of the otherwise excellent garden.

I don't know what this is, but willing to take a very broad stab at it.

It could be a function of bad genes. It could be some kind of mold, virus or other disease. It could be a result of weather changes. It could be a nutrient problem. I did see a photo on the web that was similar and said to be molybdenum deficiency. You really should write down all of the solution attempts you've tried, but since you didn't and the easiest thing being a micro nute deficiency, I would suggest a pretty complete one-part fertilizer called dynagrow, which has most things plants need. This is a tentative suggestion because I don't know what you've tried so far, so bear with me on this. Perhaps get a bottle of dynagrow 7-9-5 and put one half teaspoon in a gallon of water, that's all you need, says so on the back for a soil grow, and give that and see what happens. If you've tried various ferts already or are confident it's not a fert issue, then maybe you shouldn't bother.

I apologize, I didnt write all the solutions I tried. Here goes.

1. First I tried jump starting it with a vitamin B-1 for plants.
2. I separated its feeding and watering schedule and let it dry out and tested the soil for nutes. It showed the same nute level as the other plants (slight surplus)
3. I tested the ph. 6.7. All good.
4. I treated it with roots excelurator gold. An expensive treatment that has saved other plants.
5. I dosed it with a reasonable supply of micro nutes. I also thought it looked like a molybdenum deficiency. 2 weeks later, and it continues.
6. I soaked the roots and plant with organicide, a sesame seed oil solution.
7. I soaked the roots with a pure neem extract, as well as covered the plant.
8. I sprayed the plant and topsoil with diatemacious earth. (For the cucumber beetles)
I believe that is the extent I treated it with, as I dont know the cause, I am out of ideas to treat it further. For now, it is on very light nutes, and minimum necessary water.

@polishpollack, I dont remember the name of the micro nutes, but it was the strongest solution, and some 70 other plants are thriving, except my dear retarded lady who has bad genes and grows away from the sun.The lady in question may very well have bad genes too, perhaps her defect is somehow related to nute absorbsion. Also, I forgot to mention, her root growth is very poor. Ive yet to see vigourous roots like the other plants.

Part of me wants to go the nuclear option, dose it with hydrogen peroxide, at the max level, and re-innoculate after. She is dying, and shows no sign of flowering, like the others, but I want to exhaust all other options first. Ive had a lot of problems with the other mothers too, but managed so far to invigorate all of them so far. Its just this poor lady. Also, forgot to mention that on the surface, it looks like a molybdenum deficiency, however I believe that from the soil and micro nutes I applied, I believe molybdenum levels are sufficient.

Maybe you oughtta mess with the pH a bit bring it slightly up or down. Sometimes that can be a cause for purpling like that.

@Airwalker16. Thats an idea. The water ph is at or slightly above 7. None of my beds have I ever managed to get below 6.5. I imagine the ideal to be around 6.7. Ive thought about lowering it for all, however I could try it on this plant only. Perhaps a little lower could belp it. Cant hurt. I will try this if no better idea comes in 2 days. Tomorrow u have to manage another garden.

there probably is an answer to what this is. if you're willing to take a bit of a chance, take a leaf sample to a lab and get it analyzed. that would be the best answer. I don't know if worry about pH is important, unless the changes you've made have changed it much. it might be best to just cut the plant down and not look back.

If this just came on and and wasnt a problem until she got bigger. Could it be a layer of something under the ground? Ground has layers of soil..its not all mixed up nice like a potting mix.

Maybe as a long shot some old trash like an oil can buried many many years ago?

Just a thought.

It shouldnt be anything in the ground, as we grew there before with no ill effect. We did lose one last year, but in a different box, to root knot nematodes. I havent seen signs of it on this one, but perhaps digging deeper is necessary. We had 4 with troot knot last year, 3 were saved with peroxide soaks.

Look here...

http://ww2.marijuanagrowing.com/cracked-leaves/

Looks like copper def, but looking at what Dumme linked is caused by excess Phosphorus.
You say you grow in a bed of coco, now I'm not an out door guy or a soil guy so forgive my ignorance, I am a coco guy and coco requires a soilless ph level. With the soil ph range you are using could that be locking out the Phosphorus and causing build up thus locking out the other things listed in the link Dumme linked? With a soil PH on Coco you would also be locking out copper.

look at this chart


Look on the right side at what hydro and soilless PH ranges and you can see Phosphorus, copper, zinc, boron and others requiring a lot lower PH level.

The problem with everything I have said is
1 you don't sound like a newb
2 you have had many grows previous without this problem
3 your other plants are not having the same problem

As I say, I am not a soil guy or organics guy and never grown outdoor at all. Take what I say as mere possibilities.

Hope you sort it out!

Edit, So after reading dummes link again, an excess of iron could also be a factor. So I occasionally do a spot of metal detecting.. The most common thing I dig up (unfortunately) Is large chunks of iron from old farm machinery.. Would that cause an iron toxicity in soil/coco??
Theorizing here while waiting on my Sunday lamb roast!

Dumme said:

Look here...

http://ww2.marijuanagrowing.com/cracked-leaves/

View attachment 3740155

Click to expand...

That was my 1st thought too , lockout. My water went highly alkaline and alot of my plants reacted looking like this...I got some Growers Recharge and they all snapped back ( with proper ph of course) in 48 hrs. I wasted many batches of tea hhoping that would work but it didnt uptake nothing. GL

coreywebster said:

Looks like copper def, but looking at what Dumme linked is caused by excess Phosphorus.
You say you grow in a bed of coco, now I'm not an out door guy or a soil guy so forgive my ignorance, I am a coco guy and coco requires a soilless ph level. With the soil ph range you are using could that be locking out the Phosphorus and causing build up thus locking out the other things listed in the link Dumme linked? With a soil PH on Coco you would also be locking out copper.

look at this chart
View attachment 3740171

Look on the right side at what hydro and soilless PH ranges and you can see Phosphorus, copper, zinc, boron and others requiring a lot lower PH level.

The problem with everything I have said is
1 you don't sound like a newb
2 you have had many grows previous without this problem
3 your other plants are not having the same problem

As I say, I am not a soil guy or organics guy and never grown outdoor at all. Take what I say as mere possibilities.

Hope you sort it out!

Edit, So after reading dummes link again, an excess of iron could also be a factor. So I occasionally do a spot of metal detecting.. The most common thing I dig up (unfortunately) Is large chunks of iron from old farm machinery.. Would that cause an iron toxicity in soil/coco??
Theorizing here while waiting on my Sunday lamb roast!

Click to expand...

I 2nd this post as bein the most likely, only time I ever saw anything similar was when I had a rusted tomato cage in the pot, I now use the ones dipped in a rubber coating

nutrients problems in coco or soil aren't easy to solve because all you can do is flush, but in doing so you also wash out everything else. in hydro, it's easier because you just replace your water/fert combo with whatever levels are necessary. in my opinion, it's best to use a soil that is already made to last the entire grow so all you add is water. I think foxfarm has tried to do that with ocean forest. roots is similar. many seem to disbelieve the possibility of soil lasting the entire grow but I think it can for indoors and is probably well-suited for outdoors for many weeks, maybe not the entire grow, but will last. you just need to make sure you use enough of it in a large pot to accommodate a large plant.
with this one plant, it could be that there is something different about its requirements for healthy growing or something wrong with its soil that is thought to be impossible and is being overlooked. in the end, its just a plant and it it's not doing well maybe the best thing is to whack it and move on. in the future, perhaps some dr. earth or foxfarm's fruit and flower in the bottom will make a difference. frankly, right now I don't see how pH can be an issue if all the plants have been treated the same and one is bad while the others are okay. maybe there is something going on that has not been discussed?

Thank you for all the advice. She is still dying. I will flush her tonight after a ph test and adjust it (probably down). I am managing several hundered plants on 4 different farms, and this is the only one dying, so I have to keep that in perspective. I agree that it seems like a lockout at this point.

Over fertilized.

Cut throw away put new set simple.. Once it mass up like that . No good anymore

Personally not sure what it is but if I was you I'd look up axiom and see if it wouldn't help. Really cheap it's a protein that raises the immune system of plants making them naturally healthier. Helps with alot of issues that'd solve any virus issues only thing that really helps tmv

If you suspect it's a soil issue or a nutrient overload why not send in a soil sample for analysis. All the deficiency interpretations are, in my view, so much babbling bullshit. There could be various antagonisms and mineral imbalances masking the actual problem or highlighting symptoms that arent the core issue.

How the fuck would anyone know this by using a deficiency chart.

testiclees said:

If you suspect it's a soil issue or a nutrient overload why not send in a soil sample for analysis. All the deficiency interpretations are, in my view, so much babbling bullshit. There could be various antagonisms and mineral imbalances masking the actual problem or highlighting symptoms that arent the core issue.

How the fuck would anyone know this by using a deficiency chart.

Click to expand...

Goes way deeper than that too there are multiple viruses that can mimic any of these symptoms why I just gave a rough shot that if u don't think it's nutes and maybe something wrong with actual plant use a immune booster. Crazy it's one plant out of shit ton

that's why I suggested not worrying about it, just kill it and move on. if it is a disease, you run the risk of it spreading by allowing it to live next to other plants. if it's not a disease, there's no point in saving it because you don't know what's wrong and can't be fixed (provided that the grower knows that all plants have been treated the same and some solutions attempted don't seem to help). I say whack it.