londonfog
Well-Known Member
I guess we all enjoy our own self-imposed punishments.
No Food, No FEMA: Hurricane Michael’s Survivors Are Furious
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That's a pretty ignorant post, Roger.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
it is and it isn't. i was exaggerating to make a point...which wasn't made, most likely.
but...i know a lot of poor people. i am a poor people. and a lot of them are lazy bastards. including myself at times. i would say as many as 35-40 % of "poor people" are poor because they don't have the ambition to get the fuck up and do anything for themselves. i've known people that were selling weed on the side while living with relatives so they could qualify for disability that they most certainly did not need. i've known people back in the day that faked all kinds of shit to get food stamps, when they still came in a book, and would sell them for 20-25 cents on the dollar.
many people can't get work because there is none in their area, because they can't afford child care so they can go to work...for many different legitimate reasons.
then there are lazy assholes who will be parasites their whole lives....you come up with a believable percentage of which is which, and i'll go with it....
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
All of those things could and would be done more effectively and more importantly, more ethically, if they were delivered via a free market.
I can't think of any better way to do things than via a voluntary and peaceful exchange.
If you are worried about your toilet not working, see Uncle Buck, he has experienced the same problem for years and came up with his own solution.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Could you please define what you mean when you say "fair share" ? Thanks, Slave.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Yet, I'm not the one advocating a law which would force a black guy to use his own property to serve others against his will.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
If someone is in business, it's up to them to decide how to run their business and up to you and me to spend our money with them or not.
Justin-case
Well-Known Member
Sa
Says who?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Snap fraud is very low. Somewhere between 1.5% to 2% of SNAP money is paid to either outright fraud or people who aren't qualified. 98% of SNAP goes to qualified people so just lay off the SNAP fraud bullshit. You must have an income of $26,000/yr to qualify. People like you stigmatize people in an already difficult position. As I said that was a very ignorant thing to say, Robert.
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R45147.pdf
We probably spend much more on policing the SNAP system than we do on SNAP fraud.
It's very hard for a younger person to get onto the disability payments rolls. Only 25% are awarded benefits on the initial pass. Of the people who re-apply, 90% are rejected again. So, if you see somebody under the age of 65 collecting disability, give them your regrets, not your disdain.
The total amount spent on fraud in the entire social security system was 0.4% of the annual budget. It's a whopping big number ($3 billion) but in terms of the number of people fraudulently collecting disability compared to the number collecting that need it, again you are speaking out of your ass.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So, then if most poor people aren't accessing benefits fraudulently, then how do they get by?
They work!
30% of full time or more than full time workers make less than 2x the poverty level.
Size of household/poverty level of income
1/ $12,140
2/ $16,460
3/ $20,780
4/ $25,100
5/ $29,420
6/ $33,740
7/ $38,060
8/ $42,380
Instead of grousing about how many people are cheating, how about calling your congressman and demand they work toward:
1. Providing access to education and skills training, affordable child care, health insurance coverage, and paid sick leave;
2. Enforcing discrimination laws to reduce earnings disparities; and
3. Expanding opportunities for retirement savings and providing tax incentives to support savings.
http://www.workingpoorfamilies.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Spring-2018_WPFP-Policy-Brief.pdf
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
you live in a nicer, more optimistic, more black and white world than i do.
i still stand by my 35-40 % estimate. that many people who live at the poverty level or below do so pretty much by choice. 60-65 % actually have no choice, they try to better themselves, to support themselves, and the conditions you listed apply to them 100 %....apparently you just disagree with my percentage....that's why i say you live in a nicer world...i seem to have faith in a smaller percentage than you do....
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Apparently you haven't applied for disability. People with incomes so low the are entitled to SNAP are in fact entitled to it. The poor hating on the poor is the rich man's weapon.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
look, i like you, and you've changed my opinion about a few things in the past.
i don't have much concern about money. i value other things more than money, and i don't try to make much more than i need to get by.
that makes me seem lazy to some people, but i have my priorities, i pay my bills, and have a small amount set aside, and i don't complain about the life i choose for myself.
practically everyone i know lives from check to check. and many, many of them are lazy. they complain about their lives, and do nothing to improve them. they don't do any more work to get by than they absolutely have to, but they aren't happy with what they get for doing as little as possible. they seem to feel that they are owed something for nothing. they work shit jobs because they never bothered to learn how to do anything of value, and still think they should be making as much as people who did bother to learn a valuable skill.
you're reading and quoting statistics. i'm living the life and seeing the hypocrisy and bullshit first hand. you can quote anyone you want. it'll never change the evidence of my own eyes
i don't have much concern about money. i value other things more than money, and i don't try to make much more than i need to get by.
that makes me seem lazy to some people, but i have my priorities, i pay my bills, and have a small amount set aside, and i don't complain about the life i choose for myself.
practically everyone i know lives from check to check. and many, many of them are lazy. they complain about their lives, and do nothing to improve them. they don't do any more work to get by than they absolutely have to, but they aren't happy with what they get for doing as little as possible. they seem to feel that they are owed something for nothing. they work shit jobs because they never bothered to learn how to do anything of value, and still think they should be making as much as people who did bother to learn a valuable skill.
you're reading and quoting statistics. i'm living the life and seeing the hypocrisy and bullshit first hand. you can quote anyone you want. it'll never change the evidence of my own eyes
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Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
of course they are. i never said they weren't. i said i've known people in the past who would lie to get them, then sell them for a fraction of their face value. and those weren't rich people masquerading as poor people, they were unethical, criminal poor people. because there are all kinds of poor people, just like there are all kinds of wealthy people.
it's actually one of the major reasons they changed to the electronic cards. the only way you can "transfer" funds to someone else is to actually be there and buy their stuff with your card...
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Just saying, people who qualify for SNAP are entitled to it. A family of four living on 26k/y needs that milk money for the kids. 98% of everybody on SNAP are legit. Also, disability is really hard to get. You are misplacing your anger on poor people who are in fact entitled to every dime of assistance. Save it for the 1% who are the real reason the standard of living for everybody else has declined but especially for people who are in lower income brackets.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
now, 98% of people on snap are legitimate, and it took changing the whole system from top to bottom to make it that way....they didn't make all those changes because they didn't need to, because no one was cheating the system....
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i'm not angry...i haven't "SHOUTED" once....you're saying that EVERY poor person on the planet is there because someone is keeping them down....and that's simply not true. i'll give you around 65%.....the other 35% are useless, lazy, worthless pieces of shit. that 35% is actually worldwide in my opinion. and has little to do with income. there are just at least that many useless lazy pieces of shit on the planet, and they're spread through every layer of society. some are poor, and some got lucky and were born into wealth.
so don't be confused about what i'm saying. there aren't any more or less worthless poor people than there are rich people, or middle class people...it's just people in general that are useless. the focus of this conversation is poor people, we can switch it to wealth people or middle class people, and my opinion would be close to the same about all of them.