Need advice on what to buy!

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
Snow Crash maybe u should go read what SCARHOLE has to say and others in this thread.... (which is where I probably should have been posting in the first place)

https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/142792-thoughts-uvb-uva-lighting.html
I have some wappa curing right now grown under an HPS light that looks as good, if not better, and I didn't do that great a job with the stuff.
IMG_5586.jpg

It's just a real good strain.

I agree that we want to imitate nature, and that UV-B is probably something a person would need once they got their environment and nutrients and method completely dialed to get the most resinous weed possible.

Take a look at this:
[video=youtube;edAAt4Ul4tI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edAAt4Ul4tI[/video]​

You can see this guy uses professional equipment, and physics, to demonstrate the efficiency of using digital bulbs in digital ballasts versus using "the best" non-digital. In the case the grower is using a digital ballast it is probably better to provide the most energy you can to your plants. The more energy they get, the bigger they get, and the bigger they are the more real estate they have to put trichomes on.

I'd like to restate that I am not an opponent of using UV-B in the grow room. I just don't think it is the make it or break it ingredient when it comes to producing top shelf stuff. Genetics, environment, nutrition. That's the kind of stuff I can get behind. If you get the chance to use UV then I suppose why not. I definitely got some sticky buds from my daylight CFL bulbs!
 

Attachments

Damn guys, I didnt mean to stir up shit lol. Im still torn between a HPS system and LEDs. Honestly I WANT to believe in the LEDs, but I hear so many mixed reviews. I have actually seen grows where a 90w LED flowered decently (not spectacular) so I figured if I got my hands on a 300w system, I could have some nice fat buds. All this talk about them burning out, and not lasting long does concern me though. This thread was also the first time I've heard about them producing heat, I thought they were cooler than CFLs.

The only reason I was concidering HPS was because its proven, everyone knows HPS is fuckin awesome, but its really a lot more than I want to get into. I dont really want to tear up the walls in the place Im renting, or worry about wiring anything. I would also like to conserve as much electricity as possible. I know everyone says its no big deal but check out this link. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10988917#10988917 That was me a few years ago. The cops busted down my door, and I have no idea why. It may have been cause I was using so much electricity. (My bill for a small 1 bdrm appartment was $150 - $200 every month)

So has anyone been using LEDs for a while with good results? Anyone have proof that they are satisfactory? Like I said, I want to believe in them, but dont just tell me what I want to hear.


...how many plants are you planning to grow and how much space do you want to use...

...ill give you a complete price break down...​
Well, I plan on renting a 2 bedroom house or trailer. I can devote a whole bedroom to the grow (mother, clones, vegitation, and flowering). The limiting factor isnt really space, its cash... I really dont want to spend more than $1000 on everything. I would not be too shy to go for a hydro grow. Does hempy buckets grow plants as fast as other hydro methods? Or is it just kind of "technically" hydro since it dont use soil? The reason I ask is because I already have the perlite and vermiculite from my shroom grows.
 

mxyz250newb

New Member
hiddenidentity stay away from the led's man its a waste i'm not lieing to you

Also this dude advertising digilux is obviously trying to sell digilux, theres ZERO UVB coming off digilux bulbs!!!!!! Digilux are MAXLUMES that have been beefed up to handle the hammering of 20,000hz-100,000hz, same spectral output, same everything just stronger metal inside (no added performance) You can buy 3 maxlumes for the price of 1 digilux LOL. PAR output measures radiation but it doesnt tell you how much is UVB/UVA!!! you need a different meter

Solarmax mh bulbs put out UVB/UVA, so does plantmax and sunpulse I know this as fact.

Snow crash I had also tried to pm you but your inbox is full so I will post it here.

Hi there glad to see you dont hate UVB I thought u were anti-uvb like some folks (claiming it only destroys when it infacts helps all species, including humans MATING habits are influenced by UVB lol that's not a joke!)

Anyways I only ever had the same strain of buds my man couldnt afford to have anything but freely given bagseeds, under hps its nowhere near as frosty (dare i say no frost at all in comparison) as under only mh's (for flower) and for me and my strain.

I don't use quick active nutes... u might be shocked, but my first few runs, I only used perlite, vermiculite, and potting soil, that was it.... plants had MAD mg deficiency and P deficiency, but they still flowered and got RANK crystally under the MH and under the hps barely any frost and slower growth.

Now I use eggshells and kelp extracts and fishmeal and blackstrap molasses, galvanized steel chunks and epsom salts in my soil mix. I grew out the same strain (again) using only water and MH lighting veg/flower...plants grew faster than the last batch, but buds remained similar in crystallyness just more of them because of the larger plant / more budsites.

I thought I'd done something wrong (was expecting big increase in crystals because I'd gone all out on organic "live soil"... so me and my friend tested the same mix at his place with HPS.... plants flowers didn't look as healthy and again little to no crystal, the buds were there just like before but it didnt pack any "punch" (the strain didnt have much punch to begin with so I can tell theres a giant difference, hps flowered buds had close to zero punch)

The MH flowered buds also smell better

I have no reason to lie to you my man, please leave the HPS out of the equasion for one grow and I wont even make you kiss my feet :)
 

mxyz250newb

New Member
I forgot to mention, the better quality strain you start with, the more crystally it will look under ANY light...

The guy who managed to get like 8 crystals to grow out of an led flowerjob, used a great white widow strain, and it didnt have any frost it was pathetic, but good genetics made all the newbs thing they can grow killer shit from bagseed with led's lol what a con-job

Snow Crash your bud's could be looking so good dude without hps, I'll use my imagination for you and heres what I designed...
 

Attachments

Ive never heard of MH being better for flowering than HPS. Is there a specific kind of MH bulb I need? I thought MH produced more blue light, and not enough red for bud making. I have pretty much given up on the LEDs. Like I said, I WANT to believe in them, but deep down, I know better. It just sucks cause they sound so good!

I figure if Im going to do something illegal like growing weed, I want to do it to the best of my ability. If I get caught with 10 weak ass plants grown under CFLs with light popcorn buds, I get the same punishment as having 10 super dank plants with huge buds dripping with crystals. Im still researching, even though its tough sifting through all the bullshit. I just want my first "real" grow to be successful. It would suck to put $1000 into my setup, and only have mediocre results. Does anyone else agree that MH outperforms HPS? If this is true, why have people used MH/murcury for veg, and HPS for flower for so many years? Surely HPS has proven itself to be the best flowering light right?
 

mxyz250newb

New Member
MARKETING!!!!!!
HPS is one of the biggest con's in the growing community, just because something is a con doesn't mean it wont grow stuff... think about it, how many people bought LED's and are now cursing themselves? (some secretly)
HPS bulbs are cheaper to produce than MH bulbs, and the profit margins are great on them. Also for some people change is hard to make and hard to deal with someone else being right, to them its like admitting defeat so they can't let it go! If you look at 1 bulb and it says "85,000 lumens" (its a metal halide) and u see another bulb it says "145,000 lumens" (its a hps) being a newb, you look at the box and say "WOW THIS HPS IS ALMOST TWICE AS GOOD!!!" lol

Having a HPS bulb is like having a non-alcoholic beer, it tastes like beer...looks like beer...but wheres the punch?"

Also, now HPS bulbs are being marketed as having "enhanced blue spectrum" who the hell do they think they are kidding? (obviously lots of lemmings, rhetorical question). Now they charge more because theres a tiny fraction more UVA output LOL, my guess its negligible and just marketing again so they can raise their price of the bulbs! Hortilux now wants to charge MSRP at alllllllllll dealers, so not many deals any more... and really will bulb prices have to be $500 a bulb before people realise they are getting raped?

The reason people use HPS to flower is because thats what the hydro store told them to do! Guess what now they can sell you 2 kinds of bulbs instead of 1 !!! It's all marketing and hype. I seen the results myself thats why i'm convinced. Most hydro stores dont even know about sunpulse bulbs nor can they understand the difference between most MH's, so they keep telling people "you have to use hps, it's the only way to get that orange/reddish light"... they are WRONG. 3k sunpulse mimics orange/reds like a HPS bulb (with the added benefit of constant UVB/UVA!!!)

Also, do we REALLY need that much red light? I flower every time without it with great results.

HPS do make plants bud big (when used alone) but the potency is missssssssing, but you still get kinda high because the genetics of the plant expects UVB to be coming so it almost produces proper trichomes, almost being the key word here... alot of people are satisfied with what they have so they never experiment further, and the "lemming" mentality prevents us from moving forward. If you search google you will see other people are leaving HPS in the dust as well.

HPS will make your plants big but your genetics can only accomplish so much without the UVB photon, also UVA is important as well, HPS lacks both of these (it has "some" uva but nowhere near enough, and adding more hps bulbs wont help this because u r drowning out the plants with crappy light they just turn into heat, and plants can only absorb so much light in a day, would you rather have it storing good nutritious crystal enhancing and producing light.... or not, is basically your choice with MH vs HPS.

In nature, theres very little far red light coming out of the sun in comparisons to other areas of light, and usually only at a few points in the day, and even then , it's smoothed across other wavelengths of all spectrums of light coming out of the sun...so what you get from a HPS isn't what you get from the sun.

For lower wattages I would be running MV bulbs (mercury vapor) they can be found realllllly cheap right now, for higher wattages I would skip right by 400/600 watt and go straight to 1000watt, the bulbs are usually the same price or cheaper than 600w bulbs (i didnt know this before buying 600w ballasts)

Stay away from digilux bulbs, they are basically maxlume bulbs with beefed up metal so they dont shatter as easy in digi/ electronic ballasts. They are garbage, and put out alot of useless light and are around the 5.5kelvin range, they sure seem bright to the human eye but thats not what plants want. You could buy 3 maxlume bulbs for every digilux so I would rather risk 3 bulbs breaking than get raped for the price of 1 digilux. They also put out ZERO UVB which is retarded for a MH bulb. Solarmax / sunpulse bulbs definately put out uvb.

I've never tried ushio but i've heard they are good, the 600w and 1000w i believe are conversion models
I've never tried them but sunmaster makes MH bulbs too (overpriced), I also heard they fail easily so I would recommend to avoid these as well, multiple people have told me they fail (people who I trust).

Plantmax makes a 1000w non conversion 7.2k MH bulb, they ring and sing in the 1000w ballasts but believe it or not they flower some CRYSTALLLLLLY budds (i tried flowering alone with two mh plantmax bulbs, no supplemental) They are also one of the cheapest bulbs even north of the border I think I seen them for $42 a piece advertised, so far I am happy with there output but I dont know how long they will last cuz they are built cheaper... Although by the time they are toast i'm sure the usuable UVB will be gone from the bulb anyways

Not all MH bulbs are created equally. Trust me when I say this, contact dave at world of hydroponics in texas, he sells 1000w solarmax bulbs cheap, the 600w is a conversion and the 1000w comes in conversion and non conversion (if you have electronic ballast u want NON conversion) advertised on ebay at $80 but if you call you can jew him down to 75 easily and maybe less if u order a case or more, these are made and germany and are rated at 7200 kelvin or 7400 kelvin (can't remember). You can veg and flower with ONLY this bulb and you will have better results than with hps for veg/flower. (*from my experience). If anyone out there can find cheaper prices that ships north of the border let me know.

Also, dave sells sunpulse bulbs but he doesnt have the best price on those maybe try jewing him down or try froogle, I just paid his asking price because I was only ordering a couple things and his prices beat my "local" (5 hour drive) hydro shop prices by quite a bit, like to the tune of 300-400% better on everything including bulbs
Pick up a 3000 kelvin sunpulse MH bulb, there is NO OTHER mh bulb i've seen thats marketed for horticulture at the 3k range, most MH street lighting is around 4000-4200 kelvins.... again , you can veg and flower with only this bulb and it will outperform hps (in my experience).

You will want to veg with the 3k sunpulse and 7.2k solarmax, and flower with the 3k sunpulse and 7.2 solarmax, so its a two bulb from beginning to end.

Sunpulse sells 3k, 4k, 6.5k,10k bulbs.... now the only reason I use a solarmax instead of the 6.5k sunpulse bulb is because it's cheaper, and solarmax is the shit I wish they produced a 3k bulb i'd be ALL over it

Keep in mind hps peaks around 2.2 kelvin and if it deteroirates (after been used for a while) it barely hits 2000 kelvin and what it produces most of which the plant turns into HEAT.

If you have a room with a hps bulb and a mh bulb the plants acted stunted, and eventually climb towards the MH bulb even tho it has less "lumens" i really think HPS sucks

Lumens dont matter, the solarmax MH bulb puts out wayyy less lumens than a HPS but its the radiation coming from the bulb you can't see the plant enjoys from a MH bulb.

I wanted to believe the hype of led's as well when my friend showed up with 10 LOL he's still feeling the financial sting of that one, they were the UFO type and failed really fast and they do produce heat in higher numbers and at higher wattages which the LED fanboi's dont wanna talk about... also I was just reading theres a guy who bought alot of LED bar's on here and he had to switch to HID lol and he bought the "better" led's available right now LOL

I'm not trying to steer anyone wrong here but theres an article i'd like you to read that I attached earlier its a .pdf just read it all, it may seem retarded at first but after the first couple pages your eyes might open a bit to truth, if u have ANY questions just pm me it will be faster 'ill give you all my knowledge. I grow for personal use because I was in a bad accident and I require potency to be the #1 factor, yield is not important to me, although I have suffered NO loss in yield from my switch, just better buds :)


EDIT : forgot to mention, some other guys claiming success with sunpulse 3k bulb and 10k bulb beginning to finish, i've never tested the 10k bulb so I can't comment , but it is on my hitlist to try them if I can convince my friend to buy them, I hate being broke I blew my $$$ stupidly on buncha HPS bulbs.

Sunpulse recommends you only add the 10k bulb for the last 2 weeks of flowering but in my experience if you have UVB from the beginning its a precursor to putting up more defence, but some others experimenting claim you only need it in the last month of flowering, but others use it all the way through
 

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry.
But no.
ColetrainDay47.JPGColeTrainDay47B.jpgSensiStarDay45.jpg

HPS does a fine job at producing resin.

UV light doesn't somehow make resin. UV light doesn't provide ANY usable energy. PAR is short for Photosynthetically Active Radiation. Digilux bulbs have more energy the plant can directly use. I'm not selling anything. I could care less if you want to roast your plants under a tanning bed. The plant is making the resin. The genetics and the health of the plant have MUCH more to do with the final product. Not the presence (or lack) or UV.

Lumens do matter.

That statement alone draws into question your entire prerogative here. You, very obviously, don't really know what you're talking about. You have no proof to back up some really ridiculous claims, like HPS being a marketing ploy (that doesn't even make sense). You put galvanized steel in your organic mix???

It is just so sad to have yet another person who considers themselves an expert, yet they espouse garbage and mislead new growers. Intentionally in my opinion. I tried to be civil with you, but that clearly is no longer an option. Your ignorance when it comes to light physics and photosynthetic energy generation demonstrate that you have a long way to go dude. Lumens themselves are simply a generalization of the concentration of energy from the bulb. Higher lumens means more energy. More energy means more photosynthesic action. More action means bigger plants.

You obviously have no real idea HOW UV radiation works or what it is. To you, it may as well be pixie dust or magic.

Could my bud look even better? Sure... That's the whole point behind the hobby and I'm not going to say I got it perfect. But to make the claims you are, that HPS is a joke and it produces NO trichomes is outright retarded.

90% of the growers on this site, ICMag, Grasscity, etc, etc, at least use HPS lighting for flowering. You are trying to "re-invent" the wheel here with technology that has been available for decades. If this tech, which has been available to growers for such a long time, is the big difference maker then where is the compelling, undeniable, proof.

Find me a plant, yours or not, that has been grown with HPS and a clone of that plant grown with MH using UV. Show me. I want to see where these outrageous claims like HPS being crap comes from. In my years of experience, and in the years of experience others have as well, we are all using HPS for a reason dude.

Also, I call bullshit on your "cops in vests broke down my door BS" and then they calmly asked you to show them around your apartment. No warrant? C'mon... Attention-whore much?

And again... Yes. UV-B is reported and theorized to force the plant to defend itself and to produce maybe 1 more trichome for every 10. Bud Candy, Snow Storm/PurpleMaxx are reported/theorized to have the same affect on the resin production as well. Short of proof, this is all hearsay.

My advice:
Do not select a bulb solely on the basis of a very small amount of radiation that will not provide any energy the plant can use.
Do not select anything based on the advice of someone who is probably well researched but poorly experienced.

Do your homework and figure out what most everyone else is doing. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Sounds to me like this guy wants you to buy Maxilume and Plantmax bulbs. I don't care what you pick. This dude dissed a bulb mfg and I defended them. It was easy to do because someone else had already measured the energy levels from the bulbs on ppfd and par meters. I was not the first person to say "Digilux." The person who brought them up continues to discuss them, claiming I'm trying to sell those bulbs. Anyone worth their weight should be able to see I don't have brand preferences but that I'm also not about to let someone spew BS around the thread.

If higher ppfd and par readings don't persuade you to see through this non-sense then I don't know what will.

UV radiation. It is what plants need. Like Brawndo: The thirst quencher.
 

Brick Top

New Member
I'm sorry.
But no.

HPS does a fine job at producing resin.

UV light doesn't somehow make resin. UV light doesn't provide ANY usable energy.
Are you claiming that UVB light is worthless, that it does nothing at all to improve the quality/potency of cannabis?
Ed’s New Book – A Textbook for Cannabis Cultivation Education

Articles, Featured — By admin on June 10, 2010
UVB LIGHT AND FLOWER FORCING
[page 382-385]
Marijuana has evolved a very successful survival strategy. It domesticates easily and escapes domestication just as easily. Throughout almost its entire history of symbiotic relations with humans we accepted its natural life cycle without trying to alter it beyond developing varieties that matured a little sooner or later.
To make a change there has to be an advantage for at least one species. We have always respected marijuana as a fall flowering and ripening crop. However, it turns out that our interests and the plant’s natural proclivities have diverged.
John Lydon published his Ph.D thesis in which he reported on experiments he performed on marijuana. They showed that the amount of THC that a high quality marijuana plant produces goes up in a direct ratio to the amount of UVB light that the plant receives.
The relevance of this information to this discussion is that when the angle of the sun to the earth is most perpendicular, on June 22, the first day of summer, is when that hemisphere receives the most UVB light, which is past the far end of the visible spectrum, on the blue-violet side. As the angle of the Earth and sun becomes more oblique, Earth receives a higher proportion of light from the red spectrum and less blue and UV. By September or October, when sinsemilla normally ripens, not only is the light far less intense, but the amount of UVB being delivered is a small fraction of the amount that is received on June 22nd.
Marijuana buds that are ripening under the intense sun of early summer grow bigger, denser and are more potent than when they ripen under the waning sun and variable weather of the fall.

Then there is this from way back in 2002 . Cannabis Culture Magazine

Recent Swiss trials in outdoor plots of clones grown at different altitudes have shown that there is correlation between higher altitude and increased potency (although there seems to be a trade off in yield). This likely means that THC-rich resins act to protect the plant and its seed from both higher light intensities and ultraviolet presence.

That appears to have been what was part of John Lydon's thesis was about, how increased amounts of UVB light do increase potency.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Light disagreement

By Ed Rosenthal - Friday, November 22 2002

Do metal halide lamps grow stonier buds?
I have to disagree with you about lights. I've been growing under metal halides (MH) lamps for more than 20 years. In CC issue #34 you stated that MH lamps are useful only when the amber light of a high-pressure sodium (HPS) lamp would cause a problem.
My associates and I would disagree. The consensus among us is that HPS lamps produce more weight, but the stoniest, longest-lasting high comes from metal halide lamps.
Ultra-violet (UV) light is the key. MH lamps produce more than HPS lamps and the more UV, the higher the potency climbs in normally high potency plants. I grow for buzz, not weight, or you could say for love, not money, so the MH lamps suit my purpose. I use a Sunmaster MH lamp. The plants produce a little more weight under them than the old 5500K (Color temperature) bulbs, but they've kept the UV light strong.
Anonymous Bud,
Clifton, Colorado
In CC#34, in the article Pot Potency it stated that UV rays and high light intensity caused cannabis plants to produce a greater amount of cannabinoids. Is this true? If so, would MH lamps be better to grow stronger pot than HPS lamps?
Skydog, Ontario
The article that you refer to, Pot Potency by DMT, discusses the environmental aspects of THC production. In the same issue, I recommended HPS rather than MH lamps.
One of the factors that DMT covered was ultraviolet light. There are three spectrums of UV light. UVA is the least harmful. This is the spectrum produced by black lights. UVC light is dangerous to all life. It is used in water purification systems to sterilize water.


The light spectrum of interest to us is UVB. It affects life in many ways. In humans it causes tanning, skin aging, eye damage and cancers. Other animals are affected by it in all sorts of ways.
The Earth's atmosphere filters UVB light. There is more UVB light at high altitudes than at sea level. Also, sunlight at the equator takes the shortest route through the atmosphere. As the latitude increases, sunlight reaches Earth after going through more atmosphere because of its slanted path. Therefore UVB at the equator is much more intense than in temperate zones. That's one reason people tan or burn so fast in the tropics, and why skin cancer rates are higher in southern than northern states.
A researcher conducted a controlled experiment in a greenhouse. He lit a group of high potency plants similarly except with the addition of UVB light to some groups. He found that the percentage of THC increased in a direct ratio with the increase in UVB light. This research confirms the adage that high altitude plants are more potent than those grown at low altitudes.
If you look at old-world land races of cannabis, plants that have become adapted to the climate and latitude, the ratio of THC to CBD starts at 100 : 1 at the equator. At the 30th parallel (The Hindu-Kush Valley) the plants have a ratio of 50 : 50. At the 45th parallel the ratio is near 1 : 100. This corresponds roughly with the amount of UVB light received at these latitudes. There is much more UVB at the equator than the 45th parallel.
How can you get more UVB light to your plants? Certainly it's true that MH lamps emit more UVB light than HPS lamps. Still the amount that MH lamps emit is small. In fact, many manufacturers use UVB shielding glass to filter out most of the UVB that's produced. The UVB light the plant receives from an MH lamp does increase the plant's potency slightly at the cost of yield, but there are better ways to introduce UVB light into the grow room. They include reptile lights, which emit about 10% UVB, and tanning lamps.
 
Also, I call bullshit on your "cops in vests broke down my door BS" and then they calmly asked you to show them around your apartment. No warrant? C'mon... Attention-whore much?
Wait, who are you yelling at now? Dont group me with him, I am not claiming to know anything about HPS or MH as I have never used them. This DID happen to me though. They didnt "break down" my door, they knocked, yelled "police departement" and I opened the fuckin door lol. I lived right in the middle of the hood at the time, so maybe they didnt know what they were dealing with. Actually at one point when they were about to leave, I asked them was all the gear, and people really nessesary, and one of them said "yea, we was kinda bored, slow night.", and a couple of them chuckled. I dont know how serious he was... The whole thing was strange, and I still dont know why they actually came to my house, I just said it could have been because my electricity bill was pretty high for a 1 bedroom appartement. They said it was an "annonimous tip" but Im positive this is bullshit.

I understand if you dont believe me, because honestly, if someone told me this story, I dont know if I would believe them or not.... Up until this post, you have been helpful, and patient. I dont know if you mixed me up with this mxyz guy or what, but I have no reason to bullshit anyone.
 

Brick Top

New Member
The Evolutionary Effects of Ultraviolet-B Radiation on the Psychoactive Potency and Cannabinoid Content of Cannabis sativa L.



After a review of some scientific literature relating to the psychoactive potency of Cannabis, it is the author's opinion that Ultraviolet-B type radiation is the single most important environmental factor for developing varieties with highly narcotic properties. Ultraviolet-B radiation (UV-B) is defined as that part of the electromagnetic spectrum between 280 and 315 nanometers.

Cannabis sativa has two main chemotypes, one almost devoid of psychoactive principals ("fiber-type") and the other with an abundance of said principals. This is actually where the taxonomical split between C. indica and C. sativa originated, when in 1793 Lamarck named Cannabis indica as a distinct species from Cannabis sativa because of slight morphological differences, but mainly because of the intense mind-altering effects after ingestion of C. indica, as opposed to the fiber-type C. sativa (Schultes and Hofmann, 1980(?)). Almost every "fiber-type" variety has been grown outside the range of intense levels of UV-B radiation, whereas the opposite is true for "drug-type" varieties. This can be seen in a chart made by David Pate for his Ph.D. dissertation for the University of Missouri, where he used the data of Small and Beckstead (1973), taking careful steps to disqualify any varieties whose origins could have been in question, and plotted their THC content in relation to their UV-B radiation intensity (Image 1), and also their THC to CBD ratio in relation to UV-B radiation intensity (Image 2). About the data he says,
Quote:
The remaining data (Table 1) are assumed to be plants native to their respective areas or introduced long enough ago to be well adapted. (Pate, 1979)
And,
Quote:
Higher levels of delta-9-THC are evident in plants from origins of intense UV-B (Fig. 26). Even with the rather non-specific data base used, the results are highly significant (prob. = .0001) and ambient UV-B levels of seed origin account for over 40% (r^2 = .409537) of the observed variation in % delta-9-THC content. As could be expected, there is also a negative correlation between % CBD and UV-B intensity. (Pate, 1979)
This is a rather interesting observation, and one that has been noted by Bouquet,
Quote:
In Egypt, when the Viceroy Mehemet Ali wished to create a navy, he got Cannabis seeds from Europe in order to obtain suitable fiber for cordage. New seed had to be brought periodically, because the hemp plants obtained soon became incapable of producing good textile fibers. On the other hand, they began to secrete abundant quantities of the inebriating resin. (Bouquet, 1950)
And,
Quote:
Hemp cultivated in the plains gradually loses the property of supplying active resin. (Bouquet, 1950)
Bergel reported similar findings when he wrote,
Quote:
When we were still working in this field we were told that the production of active resin, in any kind of Cannabis plant, depends entirely on the altitude of the plantation; for example, you get rich charas or bhang in Northern India only at a certain height above sea level. It was also reported that in order to obtain active resin one had to plant Cannabis in Germany or near Rosenheim not far from Munich, which again is above a certain altitude. (Bergel, 1965)
David Pate discusses Bouquet when he says,
Quote:
The work of Small and Beckstead (1973) has indicated a substantial biosynthesis of (delta-9-THC) in plants originating between 30 degrees North and South latitudes. This is complimented by their observations of high-latitude CBD-predominant strains and an intermediate chemotype from border areas. Is it only coincidence that this pattern follows latitudal increases of UV-B, with the 30 degrees North to 30 degrees South belt exposed to the greatest intensities? Certain regions somewhat outside this belt that are known for their Cannabis products (including Morocco, Afghanistan, Lebanon, and the Yarkand district of China) raise their crops at UV-B enriched altitudes. (Pate, 1979)
He goes on to say,
Quote:
One of the samples that Small et al. (1975) investigated originated from seed of a Mexican strain raised in Mississippi by Turner et al. for NIMH distribution as 'standardized marijuana.' This strain produced only 1.5 % (delta-9-THC) in Canada, about 50% of its content when grown in the more southerly location. ... one might plausibly suspect the ~150% UV-B exposure difference between the two locations (for the increase in delta-9-THC). (Pate, 1979)
Other data he found supporting his idea was from Davis et al., who in 1963 analyzed and plotted Cannabis from Morocco, Greece, Brazil, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, and a seizure sample thought to be from Mexico (Davis et al., 1963). In it, Davis found while comparing high latitudes and tropical climates that,
Quote:
Samples with the highest ratios (of delta-9-THC to CBN/CBD) came from regions whose sunshine was least attenuated by cloud cover, a variable affecting levels of UV-B irradiances. (Pate, 1979)
Not long after that, at the first symposium organized by the Institute for Drug Dependence, whose topic was Cannabis, the topic of UV-B radiation was slightly covered. In the discussion on biosynthesis, when Agurell was discussing the cannabinoid content from an experiment, this discussion took place,
Quote:
Haney: Were the plants you were working with grown outdoors, or under glass?
Miras: Outdoors.
Agurell: In a greenhouse, with U.V. tubing.
Haney: Ultra-violet light is a very important factor. (Joyce and Curry, 1970)
The chart that David Pate made showing the ratio of THC/CBD in relation to origin can also be seen slightly changed (names of origins added) in Robert C. Clarke's book Marijuana Botany on page 159 (Image 3). From this, Clarke concludes,
Quote:
Possibly environmental factors are of more importance than cultural selection in establishing Cannabis phenotypes. (Clarke, 1981)
He does hint at the reason why when he says,
Quote:
His (Small's) conclusion that there is a strong correlation existing between high-THC cannabinoid phenotypes and cultural selection for potent strains does not take into consideration that his data also reflects that individuals of phenotype I, considered drug Cannabis, are usually grown south of 35 degrees latitude. (Clarke, 1981)
Although Clarke would like to contribute this to longer days, he failed to realize that intense UV-B radiation is another important factor missing from climates outside 35 degrees North and South latitude.

In John Lydon's Ph.D. dissertation, he showed experimentally that Cannabis plants irradiated with intense UV-B had a higher content of delta-9-THC and a lower content of CBD than those without UV-B. Although his experiment did not use clones, he reported a significant 38% difference in the content of delta-9-THC. (Lydon, 1985). Another issue he reported about was that Cannabis was morphologically and physiologically insensitive to UV-B radiation. That means that the plant did not encounter any growth changes or health problems in an area of UV-B exposure equal to that of 3000 Meters above sea level at 0 degrees latitude. Also in his dissertation are two graphs that show the strikingly different cannabinoid contents between "fiber" and "drug" Cannabis with the "fiber-type" coming from high latitude origins and the "drug-type" coming from low latitudes originally (Images 4 and 5). He quotes a different article from David Pate (Pate, 1983) when he says that Pate,
Quote:
Proposed that the two distinct C. sativa chemotypes (delta-9-THC producing, drug type and CBD producing, fiber type) evolved as a result of selective pressures brought about by UV-B radiations. (Lydon, 1985)
In Pate's closing paragraph he says,
Quote:
The results of the experiment clearly indicate that individuals of Cannabis have been selected to produce large quantities of (delta-9-THC) in situations of high UV-B exposure. This seems to be the consequence of an advantage conferred by the organism by the UV-B screening properties of this compound. (Pate, 1979)
Pate does not get into finding out why this phenomenon occurs in his dissertation, but he does discuss it some time later in 1994 when he published the "Chemical Ecology of Cannabis." The papers subject was the environmental factors that affect the potency of Cannabis, and UV-B radiation is covered in detail. He says,
Quote:
... the more intense ambient UV-B radiation of the tropics, in combination with the UV-B lability of cannabidiol, may have influenced the evolution of an alternate biogenetic route from cannabigerol to tetrahydrocannabinol in some varieties. (Pate, 1994)
He explains later, saying,
Quote:
Their experiments (Lydon, 1987) demonstrate that under conditions of high UV-B exposure, drug-type Cannabis produce significantly greater quantities of THC. They have also demonstrated the chemical lability of CBD upon exposure to UV-B (Lydon and Teramura, 1987), in contrast to the stability of THC and CBC. However, studies by Brenneisen (1984) have shown only a minor difference in UV-B absorption between THC and CBD, and the absorptive properties of CBC proved considerably greater than either. (Pate, 1994)
He then gives two explanations for the phenomenon. First, THC would be more energetically efficient to produce because it would last longer as a UV-B blocker than CBD. The other explanation is,
Quote:
The greater UV-B absorbency of CBC compared to THC and the relative stability of CBC compared to CBD might nominate this compound as the protective screening substance. The presence of large amounts of THC would then have to be explained as merely an accumulated storage compound at the end of the enzyme-mediated cannabinoid pathway. (Pate, 1994)
He goes on to say,
Quote:
This CBC pigmentation hypothesis would imply the development of an alternative to the accepted biochemical pathway from CBG to THC via CBD. Indeed it has been noted (De Faubert Maunder, 1970) and corroborated by GC/MS (Turner and Hadley, 1973) that some tropical drug strains of Cannabis do not contain any CBD at all, yet have an abundance of THC. This phenomenon has not been observed for northern temperate varieties of Cannabis. Absence of CBD has led some authors (De Faubert Maunder 1970, Turner and Hadley 1973) to speculate that another biogenetic route to THC is involved. (Pate, 1994)
It is Pate's understanding that the biosynthesis of THC can happen along different routes using different precursor cannabinoids, depending on environmental factors. CBD and THC have the same UV-B absorptive properties, except CBD readily breaks down upon exposure to UV-B, while THC does not. The cannabinoid CBC has significantly higher UV-B absorptive properties than both CBD and THC. CBD would then be viewed as energetically inefficient in areas where additional UV-B screening is needed. The plant would then take an alternate biosynthetic route, creating CBC from CBG to get to THC. This route would provide the plant with the UV-B protection it needed, whereas the route involving CBD would be less functional for that purpose.

Although further investigation is needed along this line of inquiry, the theory is somewhat supported by Robert Nelson when he writes,
Quote:
The phenotypes rich in THC always possess Cannabichromene (CBC), sometimes in large amounts. (Nelson, 2000)
And also by Bassman when speaking in general of UV-B radiation's effects on plants,
Quote:
In addition, some secondary metabolites may increase with enhanced UV-B radiation, whereas concentrations of others may decrease. (Bassman, 2004)
In our case, CBC would be increased because of its UV-B absorptive properties, and CBD would decrease because it readily degrades upon UV-B exposure. Bassman then goes on to say,
Quote:
Such changes may be due, at least in part, to competition for substrate by different enzymes along different branches of major biosynthetic pathways. (Bassman, 2004)
In our case, this would be relevant in the biosynthesis from CBG to THC through either CBD or CBC, with the CBC route given evolutionary favor in areas of intense UV-B.

Lydon wrote a good summary of the issue about UV-B radiation and Cannabis potency when he stated,
Quote:
Thus, populations of C. sativa which produce more UV-B absorbing compounds when exposed to high levels of UV-B radiation (as demonstrated with the drug-type clone) may experience more reproductive success in high UV-B radiation environments. This would account for the present distribution of drug and fiber type C. sativa in temperate and tropical environments. (Lydon, 1985)
There has been a large group of individuals in modern times, who for various reasons attempt to grow Cannabis indoors under artificial lighting for its narcotic properties. These individuals try to mimic the output of the sun as closely as possible in order to grow their plant to their highest potential, although intense UV-b radiation is never represented in their indoor environments, mainly due to lack of information on UV-B's effects on Cannabis potency. There have been a few select individuals who have gone through the pains to supplement their HID (High-Intensity Discharge, the most common type of lamp used for this purpose) lighting with UV-B producing lamps and reported their findings, with almost all of them reporting positive results. This was observed on the Internet Cannabis growing community Overgrow.com. On that website, there have been five people who've supplemented UV-B through the whole life cycle of a Cannabis plant, aallonharja, Alchemy Grower, middle_aged_crazy, maxgrow_de, and Sam_Skunkman.

The first, aallonharja, though only using a 15 Watt tanning fluorescent bulb, but failing to report his strain or growing conditions stated a
Quote:
5-10% (increase in resin production)
although he felt it wasn't worth the trouble. middle_aged_crazy has added supplemental UV-B lamps to his indoor environment, with plant harvests intended for medical users, and reports such a large difference that he won't go back to an environment without UV-B represented. He said that the patients he supplies reported that they needed 25% less plant product to fulfill their medical needs. The same situation was reported by Alchemy Grower, another medical grower, who feels that it makes such an impact that he will keep the UV-B producing lamp in his growing area. maxgrow_de reported positive results, also, when he said,
Quote:
You can determine clear differences in between the UV powered plant and the other two ladies.
The only person to report unvaried results was Sam_Skunkman. He supposedly had his close associate David Pate set up a UV-B experiment in his greenhouse and found no difference between the controls and the UV-B supplemented product, although it was not explained how he tested them. He failed to give the strain used, any procedure, or growing conditions of the experiment; therefore his test is hard to draw conclusions from.

Out of the five people to have added supplemental UV-B to their indoor growing environments and reported about it, four report an increase in the narcotic properties of their final product. Three felt that there was such a difference that they will not go back to using no UV-B supplementation. Sam_Skunkman reported no difference, although the strain he used and procedure were never reported. aallonharja, despite reporting a positive increase in resin production, felt it wasn't important enough to do again, but that could be due to the fact that he is an extremely experienced cultivator and there was not that much psychoactive difference between his products with UV-B and those without. Now that a direct correlation has been shown between UV-B radiation and the potency of Cannabis, one would suspect more people attempting UV-B supplementation in their indoor environment, with positive results reported.

In support of the fact that Ultraviolet-B radiation positively influences the narcotic properties of Cannabis, one could look at the writings of Ed Rosenthal, an author who specializes in indoor Cannabis growing. He seems to believe that UV-B is important in growing a narcotically potent Cannabis plant. His advice has been taken by more people on indoor Cannabis growing than any other author, mostly from his "Ask Ed" column which appears in Cannabis Culture magazine, or his best selling books on Cannabis growing. There have been at least two "Ask Ed" articles that speak of UV-B radiation, both in a positive light.

The first is from the November 2002 issue of Cannabis Culture in an article entitled "Light Disagreement", where an individual claims that Metal Halide HID lamps are better for the flowering cycle because of the UV radiation emitted by them. The person claims,
Quote:
MH lamps produce more (Ultraviolet light) than HPS lamps and the more UV, the higher the potency climbs in normally high potency plants. (Rosenthal, 2002)
In response, while probably speaking of Lydon's dissertation, Rosenthal says,
Quote:
A researcher conducted a controlled experiment in a greenhouse. ... He found that the percentage of THC increased in a direct ratio with the increase in UVB light. This research confirms the adage that high altitude plants are more potent than those grown at low altitudes. If you look at old-world land races of Cannabis plants that have become adapted to the climate and latitude, the ratio of THC to CBD starts at 100:1 at the equator. At the 30th parallel (the Hindu Kush Valley) the plants have a ratio of 50:50. At the 45th parallel the ratio is near 1:100. This corresponds roughly with the amount of UVB light received at these latitudes. There is much more UVB at the equator than the 45th parallel. (Rosenthal, 2002)
The second instance of Mr. Rosenthal speaking on UV-B radiation is from the February 2003 issue of Cannabis Culture. In the article entitled "Metal Halide for Flowering?" Rosenthal says,
Quote:
Third, the lamps emit more UVB than HPS lamps, although still in very small amounts. The amount of UVB light plants receive is directly related to the quality of buds. The more UVB, the higher the quality. (Rosenthal, 2003)
Mr. Rosenthal's advice should not be taken lightly due to his reputation and widespread audience in the Cannabis growing community.

The scientific data has shown that intense levels of Ultraviolet-B radiation have been the single most important environmental factor in developing Cannabis varieties with highly narcotic properties. The environmental stress of UV-B radiation coupled with the obvious artificial or cultural selection carried out by the human race, has resulted in varieties of Cannabis with large quantities of the psychoactive principal delta-9-THC. It would seem that today, Cannabis breeders are focused mainly on artificial selection, with little or no emphasis on the environmental factors that would affect the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway, content, and ratio.


The author has no knowledge of modern breeders trying to give their plants an intense level of UV-B radiation, although it would seem that this was the case for cultivators in the distant past. With the amount of high quality, highly narcotic Cannabis strains available today, it would seem that the last step would be to give the plant a supplemental dose of Ultraviolet-B type radiation equal to that of low-latitude or high-altitude environments in order to fully develop the biosynthetic pathway to THC with little or no CBD involved. The lack of UV-B radiation in a Cannabis growing environment would effect the potency of the mind-altering attributes, as in the plant would not be as narcotic as if there was a quantifiable level of UV-B radiation in the light. Highly potent Cannabis can be grown without UV-B radiation being represented due to intense cultural selection, although it would seem that almost all the strains grown today are originally from areas of intense UV-B radiation.

Ultraviolet-B radiation is the single most effective environmental stress to increase the psychoactive potency of Cannabis. In fact, it's evolutionary, and over the years, along with a human hand, it has played the most important role in developing Cannabis with large quantities of its main psychoactive principal, delta-9-THC. The words of David Pate can best conclude this discourse when he wrote,
Quote:
This study was done as a library thesis due to restrictions placed on even the scientific investigation of this genus. However, the approximate limits of inquiry possible with this technique have now been reached. Conclusive answers to many remaining questions demand carefully controlled experimentation. (Pate, 1979)

References C.R.B. Joyce and S.H. Curry. 1970. The Botany and Chemistry of Cannabis. J. and A. Churchill: London.

R.C. Clarke. 1981. Marijuana Botany. And/Or Press: Berkeley.

E. Rosenthal. 2002. “Light Disagreement” Cannabis Culture (Nov.) http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2696.html

E. Rosenthal. 2003. “Metal Halide for Flowering?” Cannabis Culture (Feb.) http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2833.html

R.A. Nelson. 2000. Hemp Husbandry. Rex Research Archives: Jean (NV).

D.W. Pate. 1979. The Phytochemical Ecology of Cannabis. Dissertation for Ph.D. at University of Missouri-St.Louis.

J. Lydon. 1985. The Effects of Ultraviolet-B Radiation on the Growth, Physiology and Cannabinoid Production of Cannabis sativa L. Dissertation for Ph.D. at University of Maryland-College Park.
 

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
Wait, who are you yelling at now? Dont group me with him, I am not claiming to know anything about HPS or MH as I have never used them. This DID happen to me though. They didnt "break down" my door, they knocked, yelled "police departement" and I opened the fuckin door lol. I lived right in the middle of the hood at the time, so maybe they didnt know what they were dealing with. Actually at one point when they were about to leave, I asked them was all the gear, and people really nessesary, and one of them said "yea, we was kinda bored, slow night.", and a couple of them chuckled. I dont know how serious he was... The whole thing was strange, and I still dont know why they actually came to my house, I just said it could have been because my electricity bill was pretty high for a 1 bedroom appartement. They said it was an "annonimous tip" but Im positive this is bullshit.

I understand if you dont believe me, because honestly, if someone told me this story, I dont know if I would believe them or not.... Up until this post, you have been helpful, and patient. I dont know if you mixed me up with this mxyz guy or what, but I have no reason to bullshit anyone.
I'm not yelling at anyone. But seriously? The cops knocked on your door so you showed them your cubensis? Then they were all, "haha, we can't test that" and walked away?

I dunno...

And hooray for copy pasting.

I think that in every post on the subject I have said that UV-B supplementation holds plenty of water. There is a lot of literature on the subject obviously... But as I've asked for, has anyone in the last 5 years or so bothered to do a side-by-side. I've done some googling, not a lot, didn't turn up anything compelling. Most threads were abandoned by the OP.

I agree that we want to imitate nature, and that UV-B is probably something a person would need once they got their environment and nutrients and method completely dialed to get the most resinous weed possible.

I'd like to restate that I am not an opponent of using UV-B in the grow room. I just don't think it is the make it or break it ingredient when it comes to producing top shelf stuff. Genetics, environment, nutrition. That's the kind of stuff I can get behind. If you get the chance to use UV then I suppose why not.

And again... Yes. UV-B is reported and theorized to force the plant to defend itself and to produce maybe 1 more trichome for every 10.
I am aware of the process, thank you for the quoted resources BrickTop, I think the item in contention here is not the use of UV-B. The issue I have undertaken is related to the advice against the use of bulbs that do not contain UV-B radiation. It is my experience, as is others, that very sticky bud can still be grown sans the presence of UV-B. That is not to say the buds couldn't be "stickier."

I think the idea is to get the most PAR you can from your high wattage bulbs and if you'd like to supplement UV-B then use a reptile UV bulb designed specifically for that purpose. This allows you to put the most energy you can directly into the plant while still gaining the benefits of the reaction a plant has to UV-B radiation.

The point I am trying to get across is that for a new grower working on their first system they should be focusing on other aspects. If they get the chance for UV-B containing bulbs then I have already supported their use.

It is so very unfortunate this thread was hijacked in this manner but I had to call shenanigans on the advice contained. There are better methods of growing that HPS, of course, and the more like nature the better... Just don't be fooled into thinking your plants will be pathetic and devoid of THC without UV-B radiation. This is not the case.
 

mxyz250newb

New Member
Snow crash... I AM A NEW GROWER... and I learned from mistakes of others before me, and some mistakes I had to make myself... I was just VERY lucky to have a friend who would let me use his energy for a few months to practice my strain on the different lights i'd purchased...

Snow crash I will sell you all my HPS bulbs man alot are new let me know if you want em some are hortilux eyes super hps..... 600w/1000w

EDIT : Im not trying to grill you about that pic I posted earlier i'm serious you're plants could be that much better if you put some faith in me i'm on a quest for potency (like bricktop) .

Also I only said HPS produces way less trichomes than MH in flower, so much less so that its "little to none" in comparison, i didnt say none at all. (this isnt a direct quote, just the way i remember it going down).

Please my man, take a step forward and just do a test run.... you seem to have everything dialed in except your lighting choice, I am jealous... I am struggling with some aspects (other than lighting)

Also the reptile uv bulbs kinda suck ass you need something with more wattage because when it starts to degrade , the low powered cfl reptile lights put out zilch.... so best to start with something strong (you can always lower/raise the bulb or move it around or use it less/more)
 

Brick Top

New Member
And hooray for copy pasting.

I just LOVE that sort of response. Someone makes a claim that is counterfactual. An irrefutable is given, using C&P's so no one can claim it is only the person's opinion or belief, so actual facts are presented, and it's made fun because it was not reworded and hand typed, and in doing so some pertinent information possibly lost and the credibility of actual scientific research findings, along with the references of those doing it, are lost.

It's like the person making fun of it has hopes that it will not be seen as having proven them to be 100% incorrect just because it was a C&P rather than a short 4 or 8 line hand typed message lacking any and all credibility due to lack of proof that could then be claimed to be nothing more than opinion or misguided belief.


I think that in every post on the subject I have said that UV-B supplementation holds plenty of water.
Really? In every post on the subject of UVB lighting you have done that? Were you doing that when you said; "UV light doesn't somehow make resin. UV light doesn't provide ANY usable energy?" Maybe I missed something but it sure did not appear that you were saying that the fact that UVB lighting does increase both resin and THC production; "holds plenty of water." It appeared more as if you were saying the opposite.


There is a lot of literature on the subject obviously... But as I've asked for, has anyone in the last 5 years or so bothered to do a side-by-side.
Sure, researchers, horticulturalists, people with PhDs and other degrees and other plant researchers. Do you think that because some Beavis and Butthead member of some growing site growing in their basement or closet or grow tent or store room or spare room or garage or attic, people lacking controlled environments and up to date modern high tech equipment to test the final results hasn't said, I tried it and it works, that professioanl researchers, people with degrees and whose life work it is to study cannabis plants must be wrong, or at least mistaken?

People who want to become good growers and grow the very best herb they can need to stop accepting the personal opinions and inaccurate beliefs of people on growing sites and spend more time doing actual research and putting more faith in the findings of professional researchers with degrees and whose life work is the scientific research and study of cannabis plants.

People will learn a Hell of a lot more from highly educated professional researchers with degrees than they will from some Beavis and Butthead who at best night possess a GED.

I've done some googling, not a lot, didn't turn up anything compelling.

The best information on plant and growing information is found many, many, MANY pages into a Google search, far beyond where most people have hit their boredom limit or decided something is not true. Most searches will give a number of pages that are mainly threads from sites like this and a few growing information sites, a number of which are just C&P'd from some other growing information site and do not contain anything different from the other sites.

When you get to about page 35 or 56 or 89 in a Google search you can often times run into many abstracts of actual scientific research and if you are willing to pay for the information or know of one of the sites where usernames and passwords can be found that will work for at least a fair number of the abstracts to then be able to read and or download the entire study ... that is where you strike gold .. not in the first 5 or 10 pages of a search where almost everything is growing site threads on the subject that often contain nothing more than opinion and personal belief.


Most threads were abandoned by the OP.

Of course. They become discussions, or arguments, that are opinion based and totally void of anything factual. Why bother to keep something like that going?



I am aware of the process, thank you for the quoted resources BrickTop, I think the item in contention here is not the use of UV-B. The issue I have undertaken is related to the advice against the use of bulbs that do not contain UV-B radiation. It is my experience, as is others, that very sticky bud can still be grown sans the presence of UV-B. That is not to say the buds couldn't be "stickier."
Frankly you were not clear on that when you said; "UV light doesn't somehow make resin. UV light doesn't provide ANY usable energy." since UVB light rays are in the group of UV light rays. Possibly a little more specificity would have come in handy when you attempted to make your point.

The point I am trying to get across is that for a new grower working on their first system they should be focusing on other aspects.
So you preach doing certain things right, or the best, while ignoring other things that are proven to be highly beneficial until somewhere down the road rather than just do it the best that can be done from day one, sort of a stair step method of building a good grow room, a good setup and slowly inching your way upwards from good to better to best rather than just starting out with the very best.

A novel approach.


If they get the chance for UV-B containing bulbs then I have already supported their use.
Possibly you have at some point but it certainly did not appear so when you said; "UV light doesn't somehow make resin. UV light doesn't provide ANY usable energy."


It is so very unfortunate this thread was hijacked in this manner but I had to call shenanigans on the advice contained. There are better methods of growing that HPS, of course, and the more like nature the better... Just don't be fooled into thinking your plants will be pathetic and devoid of THC without UV-B radiation. This is not the case.
You are right, plants will not be; "pathetic and devoid of THC without any UV-B radiation." They just won't be all they can be, all their genetics would allow them to be if they received additional UVB lighting along with HPS lighting. That is a scientifically proven fact.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Also the reptile uv bulbs kinda suck ass you need something with more wattage because when it starts to degrade , the low powered cfl reptile lights put out zilch.... so best to start with something strong (you can always lower/raise the bulb or move it around or use it less/more)

The answer is you just don't go with CFL reptile lighting just as someone who wants to grow good herb should not go with CFLs for grow lighting.


  • UV only travels so far. When using fluorescent lighting make sure the animal basks less than 12 inches away. Move the basking spot if you have to.
  • Mercury Vapor Lamps are better. The UV from the mercury vapor type lamps does travel further, up to 2-3 feet. Check the documentation for your specific bulb to see how far the UV travels.
 

mxyz250newb

New Member
Brick top, is there any certain MV lamps you recommend ? I was looking into megarays and used older mv lights on ebay, as well as tanning bulbs locally... can you steer me in the right direction if you have any more info? I'm currently using solarmax MH bulb and sunpulse MH bulb in flowering but want more UVB/UVA.

EDIT : D'oh forgot to mention its the 7.2k solarmax and 3k sunpulse bulb
 

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
And brick goes back on ignore.
See what you want to see. You are narrow minded. You are in denial. You are on a high horse.

Face the facts geezer. You've got more years behind then ahead. I bet that mid-life crisis isn't helping your attitude much.
 

Brick Top

New Member
Brick top, is there any certain MV lamps you recommend ? I was looking into megarays and used older mv lights on ebay, as well as tanning bulbs locally... can you steer me in the right direction if you have any more info? I'm currently using solarmax MH bulb and sunpulse MH bulb in flowering but want more UVB/UVA.

EDIT : D'oh forgot to mention its the 7.2k solarmax and 3k sunpulse bulb
Megaray is popular and a good choice.
 

Brick Top

New Member
And brick goes back on ignore.
Cool! That's one less pain in my butt to have to deal with.


See what you want to see. You are narrow minded. You are in denial. You are on a high horse.
Wrong on all counts.

Face the facts geezer. You've got more years behind then ahead.
Gee ... let's do the math ... I'm 56 years old ... ummmmmmm Yep, I'd have to agree with you, I have more years behind me than ahead of me.

But go ahead and try to make fun of it ... maybe if you do it enough, and well enough, it will keep you from one day being in the exact same situation age-wise as I am in.


I bet that mid-life crisis isn't helping your attitude much.
My mid-life crisis hit me at 39 years old. I dumped a woman I had spent 14 years with, bought a Harley and dated an 18 year old babe that was hotter than the fires of Hades.

The dame I dumped could only have been but so surprised though. I had always told her that if she hit 40 and we were still together I was going to trade her in on two 20 year olds. I just traded a little sooner than a expected and for a single younger model rather than two slightly older ones.

With me being on ignore and all I know you will not see this to not read it, so I know you will not respond to it ... but I still wanted to set the record straight for others.
 

mxyz250newb

New Member
I'm in my M.L.C. as we speak! Bricktop I think you get fired up about lighting almost as much as I do.

Snow Crash U shouldn't ignore anyone here even if you disagree with them it's always good to have someone to debate with :)

also I'll never get on Bricktop's bad side because I want him to stay away from my Jacobs :)
 
Top