Need a topping experts advice!!!

kinddiesel

kinddiesel

Well-Known Member
my opinion . I toped 8 plants. to see what would happen . I got 2 major bud sites instead of just the one hug one. and ill tell you I pulled the same from the toped plant compared to the one I did not top with 1 major bud site. so I no longer top. i did not see any advantage in it in my set up. now if your training them then there would be a major advantage, results will not be the same in every room . we all do it different . different lights different size plants. so on and so on. i bet if you did a lot of small plants veg for a foot height there would be an advantage. mine were veg for 3 feet tall.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Paclo WILL remain in the plant. The only study I found on it was with foliar application and they subsequently tested the new growth for the pretense of paclo and it was in the new growth. While only moderately environmentally toxic ( caltrans did a study of paclo usage in right of ways for vegetation suppression), it has a long half life in the soil (6 months if I remember correctly) but again I'm in DWC with no substrate so after flush their is no paclo remaining in the soil.

I use phosphoload which is a mixture of paclo and diaminizode But pay no mind uncle Ben, it's just worthless snake oil bullshit that I got suckered into buying by a hydro store employee. I'm not smart enough to make my own decisions. :(
 
dannyboy602

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
niche.s said:






View attachment 2810543

Hello my mate topped some of his plants like example A ,now he is afraid this may cause a staggered growth pattern can anyone tell us the impacts of this...? And how he can correct this...? Please

Thanks
Click to expand...
cannabis germinated from seed has an opposite leaf arrangement. it will develop an alternate arrangement as it matures. the arrangement has nothing to do with yield. a cutting taken from a mature plant will never have an opposite arrangement.
the only difference between the two is the tap root that a seed will put out. the tap root will grow down proportionate to the terminal bud that grows up as long a there is room in the pot.
a plant grown from seed is a little more vigorous than a plant not grown from seed because of the tap root. however the rooted cutting will quickly catch up once it gets established.
 
Malevolence

Malevolence

New Member
One of these days you're gonna have to tell your ma to quit calling. You're a big boy now.
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Hey captain cola, I know you think anything other than a pile of compost is snake oil, but indoor soilless growers face unique challenges getting the entire canopy well lit and supplementing elements found in the wild but absent of typical indoor setups.

Give this a read and see what you think. https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/574371-beneficial-additives-hydroponics-must-read.html

It is geared towards hydro but the info is worth a read. Try to keep an open mind.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Malevolence said:
..... but indoor soilless growers face unique challenges getting the entire canopy well lit and supplementing elements found in the wild but absent of typical indoor setups.
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Like trying to sort out all the confusion and choices? Never really had that problem, uh, lighting issues and providing all 16 essential elements. Been doing this for decades. Ever wonder why I don't do SCROG, coco, DWC, LST, and all the other gimmicks? Cause it has too many shortcomings and bullshit you have to fight. Enjoy your challenges....I'm a KISS man myself.

Great link and some really excellent info, some of it corroborating what I've been preaching for years, actually for decades: Tissue tests conducted in 2003 by Advanced Nutrients through BC Research Inc on numerous cannabis strains demonstrated that cannabis plants require far less P than is present in many hydroponic nutrient formulations and additives. The tissue tests also demonstrated that N, Ca and K are required at far higher levels than P and P, while required at somewhat higher levels in bloom than grow (as is shown in numerous studies), is required at far lower levels than would be expected. Another surprising outcome was N requirements in flower (re cannabis) were higher than previously believed. These findings contradicted conventional beliefs among hydro industry professionals and others that high levels of phosphorous are required to achieve optimal flowerset in hydroponic settings (among other things).

duh....

Snake oil sons-a-bitches might finally be starting to get it. Won't matter though. They'll still sell the formulations that they do because they think it's what the (ill informed, usually young) customer wants. You'll read many a post where I've used and am an advocate of such formulations as 20-10-20 or 18-4-9 from start to finish.

Also, I'm using DeltAg products or let's say I'm experimenting with them based on a generous care package from the company. Me and Johnny went around on his sales pitch about how silly other's chelates were compared to his use of organic complexors. http://www.seedcoat.com/Our-Chemistry.html

Yep, this too was an excellent read - CHELATED MINERALS VERSUS COMPLEXED MINERALS

Still left me a bit confused but the conclusion is that chelates are more effective than complexors....not that I really care. Too much of "here's the scoop but only if XYZ element is not present......" Thankfully my plants can't read. ;)
Give me a pot of soil, some food like Jack's or a slow release Polyon or Osmocote food and that's all I need.

You may now step down from your pulpit.

UB
 
Malevolence

Malevolence

New Member
I think you missed the point of those additives... we use salt and mineral based nutes in hydro and according to the post there are some minerals that are not easily absorbed by the roots. There is a whole section explaining the chelators typically found in hydroponic nutes and how they are not as effective as they could be or have a narrow ph range before the chelated element falls out of suspension. Shit like fulvic and humic acid transports the nutes better and over a wider ph range. Then it goes on to talk about how other elements are the opposite charge and kelp helps transport that, etc. Beneficial microbes are used for pathogen control and also digest root bits and fungi burrow into roots and fortify them from other bad fungi blah blah blah it goes on and on.

Training is not complicated you even have your gay little uncle bens topping guide. A scrog is not difficult, growing a 7 foot bean pole next to a 3 foot bush is. You don't need "snake oils" because you use organic soil which has ever-what-u-need... but not everyone wants to grow outside in the dirt princess.
 
nova1992

nova1992

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Like trying to sort out all the confusion and choices? Never really had that problem, uh, lighting issues and providing all 16 essential elements. Been doing this for decades. Ever wonder why I don't do SCROG, coco, DWC, LST, and all the other gimmicks? Cause it has too many shortcomings and bullshit you have to fight. Enjoy your challenges....I'm a KISS man myself.

Great link and some really excellent info, some of it corroborating what I've been preaching for years, actually for decades: Tissue tests conducted in 2003 by Advanced Nutrients through BC Research Inc on numerous cannabis strains demonstrated that cannabis plants require far less P than is present in many hydroponic nutrient formulations and additives. The tissue tests also demonstrated that N, Ca and K are required at far higher levels than P and P, while required at somewhat higher levels in bloom than grow (as is shown in numerous studies), is required at far lower levels than would be expected. Another surprising outcome was N requirements in flower (re cannabis) were higher than previously believed. These findings contradicted conventional beliefs among hydro industry professionals and others that high levels of phosphorous are required to achieve optimal flowerset in hydroponic settings (among other things).

duh....

Snake oil sons-a-bitches might finally be starting to get it. Won't matter though. They'll still sell the formulations that they do because they think it's what the (ill informed, usually young) customer wants. You'll read many a post where I've used and am an advocate of such formulations as 20-10-20 or 18-4-9 from start to finish.

Also, I'm using DeltAg products or let's say I'm experimenting with them based on a generous care package from the company. Me and Johnny went around on his sales pitch about how silly other's chelates were compared to his use of organic complexors. http://www.seedcoat.com/Our-Chemistry.html

Yep, this too was an excellent read - CHELATED MINERALS VERSUS COMPLEXED MINERALS

Still left me a bit confused but the conclusion is that chelates are more effective than complexors....not that I really care. Too much of "here's the scoop but only if XYZ element is not present......" Thankfully my plants can't read. ;)
Give me a pot of soil, some food like Jack's or a slow release Polyon or Osmocote food and that's all I need.

You may now step down from your pulpit.

UB
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hey ub i went to pm you and i think its blocked so i will just ask here: i have a 12/4/8 npk plant food and was wondering if that was good for the whole grow?
i also have liquid kool bloom which is 0/10/10 if i needed more pk.
your help is appreciated :) thank you
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
nova1992 said:
hey ub i went to pm you and i think its blocked so i will just ask here: i have a 12/4/8 npk plant food and was wondering if that was good for the whole grow?
i also have liquid kool bloom which is 0/10/10 if i needed more pk.
your help is appreciated :) thank you
Click to expand...
1. Yes

2. No
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
I guess I just don't get growing in coco. I'm sure that there are positives to this medium, but from someone outside looking in, it doesn't make sense to me.

You take a medium that has no nutritional value and then have to add the same nutrients that are already in a good soil....am I getting this right? As I understand it, soil acts as a buffer for many grower mistakes, and for high/low PH issues....does coco do the same thing?

Please don't get me wrong, I have seen some amazing plants in coco and I'm sure that there's a long list of positive attributes that come with it, but for me....soil is so much simpler.

While I'm at it.......I understand hydro grows plants much quicker than soil, but there's so many moving parts that much can go wrong, not just for one plant, but all of them if the grower screws up. I guess I'm still enjoying keeping everything simple. I plant a seedling in good soil, give it the right amount of the correct lighting, give it the right amount of water and add nutrients when needed.....3-4 months later I have a very nice plant that yields between 3-5 ounces.

I do like UB's topping technique.....it almost doubled my yield, but I'm not against trying other types of training and will be main-lining a couple of my upcoming plants at the same time I'll be doing UB's topping. I like experimenting with this stuff.

Am I babbling here?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
Damn, we seem to be cut from the same cloth LOL. :)

lilroach said:
I guess I just don't get growing in coco. I'm sure that there are positives to this medium, but from someone outside looking in, it doesn't make sense to me.
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Making no sense is all sense in the cannabis world. Noobs are hell bent on setting themselves up to fail. Check this out - https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/507899-dynagro-under-rated-fuck-39.html

I've never bought into hydro grows faster than soil mantra. To me it's another one of those myths and gets a lot of noobs in trouble - monkey see monkey do. If you've mastered your watering and nutritional drills along with all the other cultural factors that are involved the vigor should be about the same or even faster. I've witnessed thousands of hydro grows in a dozen different forums and I have yet to see any one finish a garden as fast as I do. If I can't bring a plant to the flowering stage within 4 weeks of the seed popping the soil's surface, something's wrong. And, they turn into high yielding bushes, not SOG type wimps. ;) For example - https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

BTW, I was growing in orchids in coco before most of these kids were messin' in their drawers. It's OK, but it needs special treatment, doesn't hold salts all that well and come time when it decomposes, it goes to mush fast. Osmunda fiber is a much better choice, the soft brown kind. I used to grow the hell out of orchids in that stuff. Also did pure screened lava rock too which is the same thing as water culture.
 
Sand4x105

Sand4x105

Well-Known Member
niche.s said:







Hello my mate topped some of his plants like example A ,now he is afraid this may cause a staggered growth pattern can anyone tell us the impacts of this...? And how he can correct this...? Please

Thanks
Click to expand...
Thanks for asking this question....
This thread was a really nice morning coffee read....
Hope everyone is still good...
have a nice day...
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Soil is great...if you want to spend the longest time possible vegging and achieve the lowest yields

Some people "KISS" and yet others are just fucking lazy.

Hydro rocks some serious shit. The problem is, it is NOT for newbs or people that can't think on their feet, analyze and adapt.

The best compromise between growth and yield and simplicity has to be hempy with coco/perlite. I use that in the vert room but still do DWC and ebb/flow in the other room. If your not legal, you would be a fool not to rock SOG on a flood table. By far best yield from wattage that I have ever seen. I'm number limited however so have to veg them up and train heavily.

What Evs
 
Malevolence

Malevolence

New Member
I don't understand all the kiss shit. Hydro is not hard I started with dwc. The ability to dump out the water and instantly correct errors is a god send for noobs. If you can't handle a bucket of water and air stone I'm not too sure you qualify to dig a hole in dirt either.
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Both of you that responded to my post seem to think I was knocking your type of grow, and I assure you that I'm not.

On the other hand, neither of you gave any proof that your comments are based on anything other than your own viewpoints. Have you grown side-by-side a soil grow vs. coco or hydro? Is there a study you can link that proves your statements?

I'm sorry if I sound skeptical, I am not disagreeing with you, but one thing I've learned on here is not to take someone's say-so on anything. I didn't even trust Uncle Ben until I tried his suggestions.

I'm not trying to be a dick here.
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Now UB.....name-calling isn't in order.

Tonight I harvested a plant grown in soil....4 months from seedling to harvest. I gave it proper light, proper (Jack's) nutrients, and good soil.

UB...the first pic is a tribute to you:





 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
lilroach said:
Now UB.....name-calling isn't in order.

Tonight I harvested a plant grown in soil....4 months from seedling to harvest. I gave it proper light, proper (Jack's) nutrients, and good soil.

UB...the first pic is a tribute to you:
Click to expand...

Now that's how it's done, nice job. ;) Lots of nice green leaves at harvest from top to bottom, yah sah. Most can't pull that off. Fat colas, lots of yield on that one.

Those type shears are perfect for trimming.

No name calling. Just stating the facts.

Enjoy!
 
A

Anotherlover

Active Member
I just want to make a general statement here.

Everybody is right to some extent.

Please keep in mind that everyone's grows are different, everyone's environment is different (to a greater or lesser degree).

As an example, my temps are usually much higher than the recommended, even though I have an in line fan that is more than triple needed for the room size I still have terribly high ambient temperatures.
I worked around it by a mixture of trial and error as well as studying other peoples grows and environments then adjusting method to suit my circumstance.

The same goes for topping/fimmimg/lollypopping or any other form of (or lack of) training.

Anyway, Personally I try to avoid the bitching and concentrate on the information given :) a good thing about getting your blood flowing in a debate is you tend to think more clearly, so if you ignore the anger there is some seriously well honed and sharp information to be found in this and similar threads :)
 
lilroach

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Oh......and I somehow forgot to flush my plant and deprive it from nutrients. What was I thinking?

Anyway....Anotherlover is right....if we stuck with the facts and didn't make things personal, we'd go a long way to improve the the information on here. Personally, I prefer following the KISS stuff as it works for me as you can see from my previous post. I'll admit that I've seen some amazing grows using SOG but it's not for me....at least for now. I like having numerous strains going, and the ability to change my flower-room around which SOG really isn't very user-friendly to do.

I don't focus on (in my mind) useless watts-per-grams, or other measurements for how successful my grows are.
 
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