National Popular Vote Bill gets a little closer to realization

Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
Oh really? You fail to see the reason for a Senate, and its representation of State equality? Why is that? If you truly believe in our founding father's principles,and true liberty and freedom, then you MUST believe in our founding father's beliefs. I.e. the "Bill of Rights." Individual liberty will always be at odds with the needs of the "huge, collective, but most importantly,....the STATE."........

This is where me and other Americans often disagree.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Mcgician said:
Oh really? You fail to see the reason for a Senate, and its representation of State equality? Why is that? If you truly believe in our founding father's principles,and true liberty and freedom, then you MUST believe in our founding father's beliefs. I.e. the "Bill of Rights." Individual liberty will always be at odds with the needs of the "huge, collective, but most importantly,....the STATE."........

This is where me and other Americans often disagree.
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Stop misstating my arguments. The Senate IS equal representation by the States. I pointed it out as such, I didn't say it was a bad thing. Not the same as the electoral college.

Again, what does the Bill of Rights have to do with any of this? Connect those dots.

The very point I'm making is that the State- now controlled by big money interests- is indeed running roughshod over the rights of individual citizens. You're the one who has it backwards, due to the propaganda you've been spoon-fed by Fix News and Friends.

Buckley v Valeo
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo

Citizens United
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

These decisions handed power over our government to the highest bidder. Talk about subverting democracy...
 
Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
If you believe we need a popular vote, what need is there for the Senate at All? You tell me. I'll be waiting here for a cogent answer.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Not quite the same topic, but the next step is removing barriers to voter registration and getting more people signed up and at the ballot box.

There's a lot of voter suppression going on in America.
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Voting is a form of suppression and features false dichotomy as a cornerstone.

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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Mcgician said:
If you believe we need a popular vote, what need is there for the Senate at All? You tell me. I'll be waiting here for a cogent answer.
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The cogent answer is that the Senate is where the States get equal representation. Two Senators per State, no matter what their population. So it's there. And when it comes to discussing the electoral college, utterly irrelevant.

There's no need to rig the system for the Presidential vote.

Bringing up an irrelevant argument and then fighting about it is your miserable excuse for debate.

The topic is the electoral college and how it doesn't work in modern America. Not the Senate, not what the Founding Fathers thought back in their day. Try to stay on the topic- unless of course you're wrong and you're just trying to deflect attention from that fact.
 
Mcgician

Mcgician

Well-Known Member
In the case of the popular vote, what role would the Senate play? Pretend? Just for fun??? Your answer is a load of crap and you know it.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Mcgician said:
In the case of the popular vote, what role would the Senate play? Pretend? Just for fun??? Your answer is a load of crap and you know it.
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The Senate plays no role in electing the president now, so why do you keep bringing them up? Other than Strawman argument?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Mcgician said:
So many of you are uniformed. The very reason why we even have a Republic to begin with is, that each and every state received, at least in some way, EQUAL representation. If some of you people want the popular vote to go to the Presidential election, why not everything else? If so, what reason is there for a Senate at all??? The framers of our beloved Constitution went round and round about this for a long time, all while Thomas Jefferson was abroad acting as ambassor in France during the Constitutional Convention, and it's crafting. As for the popular vote, there was a HUGE reason the colonies didn't want that. They knew that the urban areas had more people, individual states deserved their own EQUAL representation, and without that carefully crafted republic, all democracy would equate to without it, was 3 wolves deciding what's for dinner with 2 lambs.
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What do you mean by "EQUAL"? The urban areas now house 75% of the nation's population but their vote counts less towards electing a president than the 25% of the nation's population that is rural. At the extreme, the rural voter's ballot has 3 times more power that an of urban voter's ballot.


If you read real history, not Rush Limbaugh's laughable re-write, the EC is a remnant of a compromise to slave holding states that counted slaves as partial people in order to stack congress and gain extra electoral votes. The EC was made up to account for the fact that the white vote was less in slave states than in free states. Rural population numbers were higher than urban for most of this country's history. Get your facts straight.
 
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