Name that deficiency….cause I can NOT figure it out

hotrodharley said:

Possibly a deficiency but one caused by an excess of something. Or multiple somethings.

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Well, I just did another topdress of 284 and 444 the other night….in retrospect mixing in the 2-6-3 compost (again at less than half recommended dosage) a couple weeks ago was probably over complicating things and should have stuck with the regular ewc….. so it’s a little late to take it back but I guess it will help me see if it is an excess.
I just don’t get it though, looking at other peoples feeding schedules with Gaia green and they’re using sooo much more….
aside from the weird veins on that one leaf and 2 lower leaves looking kinda k def (yellowing starting around edges) and the edges turning up she’s looking pretty good. I’ll do as you suggest and cut out anything aside from next dose of microbes, humic acid and boost which will all help work through things
I really need to get my well water tested and find out what all is there, and get a tds meter - that would give me some indication of how hot my soil is, no? Ppm in vs ppm out?

nyxthenightmother said:

just to be clear though the plants look absolutely gorgeous. amazing thick buds man you should be proud regardless. it's better to make mistakes and learn from them rather than be stubborn and kill the plants.

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Thanks man!! This has been one of my more frustrating rounds after a couple years of it. I keep trying to replicate what has been successful in previous runs, but it seems to change from round to round - what resulted in good yields and limited problems last time did not work this time. I need some soil kits and a tds meter so I can have a better idea what I’m working with
Fortunately it is a weed and good genetics still make good flowers even when you fuck up. This is key lime pie x dosido from philosopher seeds - one of my all time faves of a lifetime of smoking.

TimewasterOG said:

Thanks man!! This has been one of my more frustrating rounds after a couple years of it. I keep trying to replicate what has been successful in previous runs, but it seems to change from round to round - what resulted in good yields and limited problems last time did not work this time. I need some soil kits and a tds meter so I can have a better idea what I’m working with
Fortunately it is a weed and good genetics still make good flowers even when you fuck up. This is key lime pie x dosido from philosopher seeds - one of my all time faves of a lifetime of smoking.

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frosty bud wow. i totally understand what you mean by trying what has worked but you're totally right when you say it changes every round. i personally water each strain and plant differently and based on their leaf symptoms. these are how my hindu kush plants are looking 5 weeks into flower.

I've never used gia green but I believe its just a more expensive version of Dr earth. The amount of top dress seems right, did you start top dressing at week 1? I personally wouldn't feed straight molasses to a pot but instead make a compost tea and bubble it until it no longer smells sweet. If you've been "adjusting" ph I'd stop and give it a good watering.

nyxthenightmother said:

if you're already near the time to flush you can prob ride it out with the nutes left in the pots. best course of action is a clean start with some reg soil next time around. i prefer water soluble nutes every other to every third watering.

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Just going through my journal….I went wayyyy heavier last time - weekly topdress Fridays with gaia green 284 444 and phosphate and ewc, ewc + bokashi + bunch of other stuff as a weekly Monday tea, flores, boost, fish hydro, liquid seaweed, calmag, microbes. So much more in there and had absolutely stellar results compared to what I have going now. Has me second guessing big time. Biggest difference is the missing calmag and bokashi this run as well as top dressing every 2 weeks at the same rate I was doing weekly last run. Baffled

TimewasterOG said:

Thanks man!! This has been one of my more frustrating rounds after a couple years of it. I keep trying to replicate what has been successful in previous runs, but it seems to change from round to round - what resulted in good yields and limited problems last time did not work this time. I need some soil kits and a tds meter so I can have a better idea what I’m working with
Fortunately it is a weed and good genetics still make good flowers even when you fuck up. This is key lime pie x dosido from philosopher seeds - one of my all time faves of a lifetime of smoking.

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Ts looks good

ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:

"topdressed with 2tbsp gaia green bloom,
1/2 tbsp 444,
4tsp mineralized phosphate around the start of flower.
Topdressed again 2 weeks later with a 2-6-3 compost from sustane,
about week 4-5 now and just did another half strength topdress with 284 and 444 again
Watering in with humic acid.
I’ve also supplemented here and there with some biocanna flores, boost, fish hydro and Gaia’s soluble seaweed.
And a weekly dose of molasses for the microbes I give every couple weeks.
The sustane does have some cal in there, and I have supplemented a couple times with egg shell vinegar +a tums tablet and Epsom salts (I ran out of calmag , which probably contributed to my problems"

I think @hotrodharley was referring to all that^^^

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It may seem like a lot but it’s not as heavy as I went last round when I had much better results. I’m top dressing every 2 weeks instead of weekly at the same 1/2 strength of the monthly dosage, using less extra liquid stuff…. The biggest difference is not doing the weekly aerated tea, less frequent topdress, I ran out of calmag last run (have read gg can be lacking, especially when using leds), and also not having bokashi. I think my explaining might make it seem like it’s more than it is.
strawberry cane this round (first photo) vs strawberry cane last round

hotrodharley said:

Possibly a deficiency but one caused by an excess of something. Or multiple somethings.

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I’m really not trying to be ignorant, but I think I might explain things in a way to make it seem like it’s more than it is….gotta make dinner, but check out my new replies regarding my previous round and how much heavier I went - is the whole reason I’m feeling confused

TimewasterOG said:

I’m really not trying to be ignorant, but I think I might explain things in a way to make it seem like it’s more than it is….gotta make dinner, but check out my new replies regarding my previous round and how much heavier I went - is the whole reason I’m feeling confused

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I’m just going by the pictures you posted. Those appear fried and not deficient. But I could be wrong.

“ topdressed with 2tbsp gaia green bloom,
1/2 tbsp 444,
4tsp mineralized phosphate around the start of flower.
Topdressed again 2 weeks later with a 2-6-3 compost from sustane,
about week 4-5 now and just did another half strength topdress with 284 and 444 again
Watering in with humic acid.
I’ve also supplemented here and there with some biocanna flores, boost, fish hydro and Gaia’s soluble seaweed.
And a weekly dose of molasses for the microbes I give every couple weeks.
The sustane does have some cal in there, and I have supplemented a couple times with egg shell vinegar +a tums tablet and Epsom salts (I ran out of calmag , which probably contributed to my problems"



Easy answer - way too much for just a plant.
Regardless if you somehow shoved more than this on plants before …. All of that dry nute PLUS compost would need at a minimum a couple weeks to breakdown for uptake , yet you are feeding based on a particular timetable.

How about chillin on the feed ? - let plant work thru all of that unnecessary nute bath you have it locked into.
I can bet that no one here ever fed a plant that much in any form. You got boosters , humid teas , fish stuff and some crazy egg shell salad mix too.
No molasses or whatever.

Shockingly , it’s in bloom ……therefore just the 2-8-4 BLOOM feed would suffice , with kelp in watering.

It’s a waste of product ( s ) on a single plant ….. nute excess can cause antagonism among multiple elements - interfering with uptake and actually blocking completely others.

How do you get a compost that's 6% phosphorous?? And how much of it did you use?

The 444 and 284 amounts don't sound excessive, maybe even on the low side, if you were using just those two...

Light burn?. Them lights are bright as anything I've seen. My little qb burns the hell out of my plants. Have to increment the light gradually otherwise I get this too.

ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:

"topdressed with 2tbsp gaia green bloom,
1/2 tbsp 444,
4tsp mineralized phosphate around the start of flower.
Topdressed again 2 weeks later with a 2-6-3 compost from sustane,
about week 4-5 now and just did another half strength topdress with 284 and 444 again
Watering in with humic acid.
I’ve also supplemented here and there with some biocanna flores, boost, fish hydro and Gaia’s soluble seaweed.
And a weekly dose of molasses for the microbes I give every couple weeks.
The sustane does have some cal in there, and I have supplemented a couple times with egg shell vinegar +a tums tablet and Epsom salts (I ran out of calmag , which probably contributed to my problems"

I think @hotrodharley was referring to all that^^^

Click to expand...

It may seem like a lot but it’s not as heavy as I went last round when I had much better results. I’m top dressing every 2 weeks instead of weekly at the same 1/2 strength of the monthly dosage, using less extra liquid stuff…. The biggest difference is not doing the weekly aerated tea, less frequent topdress, I ran out of calmag last run (have read gg can be lacking, especially when using leds), and also not having bokashi. I think my explaining might make it seem like it’s more than it is. Photo is cherry bakewell (HolySmoke seeds) and she was covered with giant tops like this….almost as big around as a 2l bottle

weedstoner420 said:

How do you get a compost that's 6% phosphorous?? And how much of it did you use?

The 444 and 284 amounts don't sound excessive, maybe even on the low side, if you were using just those two...

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It’s from this company called sustane, made from composted turkey litter. This info sheet is a bit different than what’s on the bag, which indicates it’s good for general use not just remediation. Based on what it says on the bag for containers, I figured out it asks for about 2.5cups per 5gal fabric pot (about.7 cubic feet give or take). I prefer to give lower concentrations more frequently, thinking that will maintain a more constant level in the soil, and my last round seemed to support that theory, so I went with 1 cup to the 5gal pot - thst was a couple weeks ago so it’s had some time for the soil life to break it down some.

EarLobe257 said:

Light burn?. Them lights are bright as anything I've seen. My little qb burns the hell out of my plants. Have to increment the light gradually otherwise I get this too.

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Samsung does make some good diodes!! The fact it’s mainly upper leaves showing symptoms makes this suggestion a possible contributor, but I’ve had a number of runs with both the spider farmer and the ecofarm and it hasn’t seemed like a problem before. At the moment the sf is a good 18-24” above canopy, and the ecofarm is close to that. All that said, I did recently bump the uv levels on that, so I might dial back down a bit.

Budzbuddha said:

“ topdressed with 2tbsp gaia green bloom,
1/2 tbsp 444,
4tsp mineralized phosphate around the start of flower.
Topdressed again 2 weeks later with a 2-6-3 compost from sustane,
about week 4-5 now and just did another half strength topdress with 284 and 444 again
Watering in with humic acid.
I’ve also supplemented here and there with some biocanna flores, boost, fish hydro and Gaia’s soluble seaweed.
And a weekly dose of molasses for the microbes I give every couple weeks.
The sustane does have some cal in there, and I have supplemented a couple times with egg shell vinegar +a tums tablet and Epsom salts (I ran out of calmag , which probably contributed to my problems"



Easy answer - way too much for just a plant.
Regardless if you somehow shoved more than this on plants before …. All of that dry nute PLUS compost would need at a minimum a couple weeks to breakdown for uptake , yet you are feeding based on a particular timetable.

How about chillin on the feed ? - let plant work thru all of that unnecessary nute bath you have it locked into.
I can bet that no one here ever fed a plant that much in any form. You got boosters , humid teas , fish stuff and some crazy egg shell salad mix too.
No molasses or whatever.

Shockingly , it’s in bloom ……therefore just the 2-8-4 BLOOM feed would suffice , with kelp in watering.

It’s a waste of product ( s ) on a single plant ….. nute excess can cause antagonism among multiple elements - interfering with uptake and actually blocking completely others.

Click to expand...

Im really thinking it’s the wca (the crazy egg salad shit , it is a thing - vinegar reacts with the calcium carbonate and you end up with water soluble calcium….a neat little experiment really) and mag sulfate mix I did - pretty sure my ratios were completely fucked and I did lock out a few things. I had read previously that ~1-2tbsp epsom / gal water is good but further reading indicates that is completely too much. See screenshot of part of a pretty good write up about it. So one of my solutions had 3tbsp/4gal and I think that was bad.
For real though, look up some of the Gaia green (I think dr earth in the states) methods - there are people topdressing with 2tbsp/gal and supplementing with a bunch of other stuff. Seems like too much to me too, so I use a fraction of that concentration. I have read a few places that especially with led’s, additional cal and mag is needed.
Also, I finally got a tds meter and my well water is down at like 21ppm (not sure what that consists of, but there’s not much of it), so I think my laying off of things this run (especially the lack of aerated tea and calmag) might have just left something lacking….and then I way over corrected

Sometimes just a 2 or 3 part nute line is enough.
Too many supplements can and will cause antagonism among elements.

TimewasterOG said:

https://www.sustane.com/images/Documents/Spec_Sheets/2-6-3_Concentrated_Compost_EC_Spec.pdf

It’s from this company called sustane, made from composted turkey litter. This info sheet is a bit different than what’s on the bag, which indicates it’s good for general use not just remediation. Based on what it says on the bag for containers, I figured out it asks for about 2.5cups per 5gal fabric pot (about.7 cubic feet give or take). I prefer to give lower concentrations more frequently, thinking that will maintain a more constant level in the soil, and my last round seemed to support that theory, so I went with 1 cup to the 5gal pot - thst was a couple weeks ago so it’s had some time for the soil life to break it down some.

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Dang so that's compost *concentrate*, not compost. Anything with over 0.5% of any given nutrient I would consider a "fertilizer," not compost.

I have not personally used any amendments that come out of a warm-blooded flying animal's butt (chicken manure, bat/seabird guanos, etc), but I get the impression they tend to be quite hot and are very easy to overdo. I'd assume turkey litter would be similar. Treat that stuff like a 2-6-3 dry fertilizer, maybe adding up to 1/4 cup at a time to a 5-gallon pot until you know how it's going to affect things.

I appreciate @Budzbuddha 's consistency in encouraging growers to keep things simple. You have the Gaia 444 and 284, that and some compost or worm castings is pretty much all you need for a successful organic grow.

Side note - I've heard the thing about plants grown under LED requiring more calcium and magnesium, too, but I'm not sure how much truth there is to it. I grow organically under LEDs and my plants have never seemed to lack either one specifically, but the amendments I use also have a higher-than-normal amount of calcium in them already (KiS Organics Nutrient Pack @ 10% and Espoma Tomato tone @ 8%). I wonder if there is any scientific evidence to back up those claims...

weedstoner420 said:

Dang so that's compost *concentrate*, not compost. Anything with over 0.5% of any given nutrient I would consider a "fertilizer," not compost.

I have not personally used any amendments that come out of a warm-blooded flying animal's butt (chicken manure, bat/seabird guanos, etc), but I get the impression they tend to be quite hot and are very easy to overdo. I'd assume turkey litter would be similar. Treat that stuff like a 2-6-3 dry fertilizer, maybe adding up to 1/4 cup at a time to a 5-gallon pot until you know how it's going to affect things.

I appreciate @Budzbuddha 's consistency in encouraging growers to keep things simple. You have the Gaia 444 and 284, that and some compost or worm castings is pretty much all you need for a successful organic grow.

Side note - I've heard the thing about plants grown under LED requiring more calcium and magnesium, too, but I'm not sure how much truth there is to it. I grow organically under LEDs and my plants have never seemed to lack either one specifically, but the amendments I use also have a higher-than-normal amount of calcium in them already (KiS Organics Nutrient Pack @ 10% and Espoma Tomato tone @ 8%). I wonder if there is any scientific evidence to back up those claims...

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“ usually “ cal and mag are covered in your municipal water ( tap ) - and yes tap water will work unless its f’ up badly. Also most complete nute lines have calcium and mag . I run tap on all.

My calmag bottle collects dust on the shelf.
However it can be used as a foliar if needed.

UPDATE:
So I muddied the waters by discussing 2 different (possibly related) problems. Most of the discussion has been on what I’m getting ready to start cutting soon, which is too far along to really know if I’ve fixed anything. Couple of test buds are still delicious even though I botched things.
Despite being so far along, I have hit them with a 1/2 strength dose of flores (before switching back to heavy watering amd some boost fkr the last little bit) and progression of symptoms has slowed some.
I finally got a tds meter and have discovered my filter system brings my well water down to~25ppm, that’s super low. So I think NOT adding stuff (especially cal and mag, which gg doesn’t have quite enough of when they’re eating lots and under led’s) might have contributed to my problems on this run. I’m also feeling like a regular watering with an aerated tea was helping support the soil life better than I have this time - healthy little critters will help regulate things to some degree.
So I want to focus on the Future#1 (she tested at 38%!!! Grown by some folks in Oregon a few years ago), currently 5 weeks since flip and still lots of time for me to either help her shine or make things go sideways again.
To clarify
•flipped Jan 10
• Jan 13: 2tsp mineralized phosphate, 1tsp kelp (approx 1/4 strength)
• Jan 19: topdressed with Gaia green - 1.5tbsp 284, 1/2tbsp 444, ewc, 1/4tsp raw microbes (Less than 1/2 recommended dosage)
• Also gave Azomite at 3/8 recommended dosage which is a change and I think one of the places I fucked up**
•Jan 26: watered with what I think is too heavy of a concentration of mag sulfate, which is causing uptake issues with other things,
•Jan 29: 1 cup sustane (2-6-3 , plenty of calcium, compost ***also new and probably mistake) + 2tsp phosphate ; water in w/ humic + boost
• feb 3 : 1 tbsp molasses/ 15l water
She was absolutely perfect up until about a week ago, except for 1 of the couple lower leaves looking a bit k def. I first noticed the serrated edges and a few tips lifting as though she was not transpiring properly or too hot. If anything too low some nights.
Then I noticed
-the veins on one upper fan leaf turning brown and getting scratchy little lines coming off it.
- Lower leaf progressed with what looks like k def to me and is just about dropped off now.
-Top leaf continuing with a bigger spot developing and some yellowing. There are some tips starting to lighten, so will take all the advice and not add much more for now. Bud
I’m pretty sure I have added too much mag sulfate because I ran out of calmag - but my water ppm definitely shows it needs a bit of something! And probably too much calcium from the azomite and sustane.
so really looking to see if anyone has seen this type of leaf damage before….and what caused it.
pjotos start with Jan 21, edges start turning up feb 6,
sorry for all that…