MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

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The Mad Hatter

The Mad Hatter

Active Member
Atomizer said:
And they say hp aero is an expensive hobby ;)
I`ve been brainstorming again, a root chamber design this time. Its dirt cheap and allows you to increase the chamber depth to match the roots as they grow, the only limitation is the height of the room.
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My magical power to make any hobby expensive :-)

Care to share? I'm thinking something like a car antenna eh? Don't forget it's a dynamic system though, more volume, more mist...

I think I might rather try and fix as many variables as I can... Although if you went with a dynamic misting system regulated by humidity you could probably get away with it.... I have a feeling though that something like a root sog (sow?) system -- like we were talking about a while back -- has the potential to be more beneficial... Although no idea should go unexplored.

What exactly did you have on your mind? :-)

T.M.H.
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Its nothing special but may be a cheap way to build a good sized root chamber.
The magical ingredient is nothing more exotic than a section of flexible aluminum ducting 12"-18" diameter. All you`d need is a couple of plywood discs (14"-20"doughnuts) and 3 or 4 lengths of threaded rod to keep the discs apart and the duct under tension.
The bottom disc could sit on its extended threaded rod "legs" over a shallow container or bucket for the runoff with the nozzle built into the center.
A single nozzle firing upwards into a round duct will reach a fair distance. If the mist has time to expand before it meets up with the roots you`ll get almost complete coverage :)
The walls of the aero chamber don`t need to be strong, the weight of the plant is supported by the ply discs and threaded rod. 2ft of 10" duct will compress down to about 1.5", i don`t have any 18" to try but i guess its similar.

If you tack some light steel or plastic mesh around the doughnuts to form a mesh cylinder, you`ve got a cheap vertical hp cloner that`ll hold several hundred cuts. Not sure if the duct wall will like having hundreds of holes poked in it but its a thought.
If nothing else it`s a novel way to recycle old ducting :)

Edit: I tested on a single nozzle firing straight up just to satisfy my curiosity. Measured from the nozzle outlet it managed a height of 3.5ft comfortably with around 80psi pressure. I didn`t do a test with it confined in a length of vertical duct but it would probably go even higher.
 
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tree farmer

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Its nothing special but may be a cheap way to build a good sized root chamber.
The magical ingredient is nothing more exotic than a section of flexible aluminum ducting 12"-18" diameter. All you`d need is a couple of plywood discs (14"-20"doughnuts) and 3 or 4 lengths of threaded rod to keep the discs apart and the duct under tension.
The bottom disc could sit on its extended threaded rod "legs" over a shallow container or bucket for the runoff with the nozzle built into the center.
A single nozzle firing upwards into a round duct will reach a fair distance. If the mist has time to expand before it meets up with the roots you`ll get almost complete coverage :)
The walls of the aero chamber don`t need to be strong, the weight of the plant is supported by the ply discs and threaded rod. 2ft of 10" duct will compress down to about 1.5", i don`t have any 18" to try but i guess its similar.

If you tack some light steel or plastic mesh around the doughnuts to form a mesh cylinder, you`ve got a cheap vertical hp cloner that`ll hold several hundred cuts. Not sure if the duct wall will like having hundreds of holes poked in it but its a thought.
If nothing else it`s a novel way to recycle old ducting :)

Edit: I tested on a single nozzle firing straight up just to satisfy my curiosity. Measured from the nozzle outlet it managed a height of 3.5ft comfortably with around 80psi pressure. I didn`t do a test with it confined in a length of vertical duct but it would probably go even higher.
Click to expand...
one time i wanted to take some of these http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/934/Transparent-Tanks/shrimp brine/0 and put them in a basement and cut a hole in the floor above and stick them up to the ground floor. put a net pot in the top and misters down along the tube that would be in the basement. so youd have the grow on the main floor but youd have the root system suspended in these 10 ft columns down in the basement getting misted. i wonder if the mist would reach the bottom of the 10 ft column.
they are even self draining and see thru so you could check on the roots. just keep the lights out in the room unless you wanted a peak of the roots. i know it sounds crazy but i bet it would work nice. of coarse its not very practical using two floors (one for roots and one for plants) but alot of things i(we) DO arent practical. imagine walking into a basement with nothing but these columns hanging down.
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
They are pretty cheap considering what they are, 10ft of root depth sounds nice. The basement section of tube would probably be a perfect temperature for roots. The mist might make it that far depending on the humidity and temperature in the tube..droplet evaporation is likely to be the limiting factor.
With some fan assist, you may get away with the nozzles at the bottom, the bonus here is that larger droplets are too heavy to travel any great distance against gravity so only the smallest size would make it upto the top..assuming they didn`t evaporate on the way that is ;)
 
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travish413

Well-Known Member
Ok everybody,
You all have had some great info on aeroponics. I have been thinking for years that just a mist of water sprayed on the roots was aero but wasnt aware of the droplet size and psi that you need. Just have only seen low pressure systems until I came across this thread. Im glad i did. If I do something I want to do it right and aero is the route I am wanting to take for my next grow. I was thinking about buying this http://www.biocontrols.com/secure/shop/item.asp?itemid=22 but just dont want to drop 3 of 4 thousand on something that I cant get my hands on first. Wish I could see it and see what all those add ons which make it so expensive actually do and if they are really needed. I already have ro water so I dont need that. I dont know why they say you need a cycle timer and a hydroponic controller? I thought they were basically the same thing... Anyway, I think I am going to buy a hp pump that is capable of atleast 100 psi and try to build atomizers idea of the telescoping grow chamber. Great idea!:clap: What is yalls opinon on the hp system that i linked. Is it worth it or should i diy my own method. Im handy and can build about anything but am new to this hp aero but really intrigues me. Thanks for any input!:peace:
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Hi travish413,
You could build a pumped hp or even a compressor based air assisted aero system for considerably less. I don`t see how they can justify the $3300 price tag.. its all smoke and mirrors ;)
 
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travish413

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Hi travish413,
You could build a pumped hp or even a compressor based air assisted aero system for considerably less. I don`t see how they can justify the $3300 price tag.. its all smoke and mirrors ;)
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Thanks alot man! I was thinking the same thing but I just got caught up by their web site and I even spoke with them and they told me that I should by all my equipment from them bc it comes with all the fittings...what like I cant figure out how to connect misters to a tube... they have an accumulator tank that is 200 dollars and you can buy the same tank at lowes for 40. Thanks again and I'll be building a version of your telescoping idea tomorrow. I'll post pics when i am done.:peace:
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
Ugh a rotary vane pump, likely a double float switch for an auto top off solenoid valve, a stand, a house hold captive air water storage tank, a small plastic reservoir, some inline filters, a cheap RO filter (maybe) misters, timer, temperature controller (I assume for a heater or fan), common plubing connect hoses covered with braided sy tainless steel, electric solenoid for delivered pressurized water and trays for over $3000. They must be in partenership with Advanced Nutrients with a price like that. Rotary vein pumps are really not a very good choice. It would be nice to have no copper or brass in the system if possible. Nearly all small capicity highpressure rotary vein pumps are brass.
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
tree farmer said:
one time i wanted to take some of these http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/934/Transparent-Tanks/shrimp%20brine/0 and put them in a basement and cut a hole in the floor above and stick them up to the ground floor. put a net pot in the top and misters down along the tube that would be in the basement. so youd have the grow on the main floor but youd have the root system suspended in these 10 ft columns down in the basement getting misted. i wonder if the mist would reach the bottom of the 10 ft column.
they are even self draining and see thru so you could check on the roots. just keep the lights out in the room unless you wanted a peak of the roots. i know it sounds crazy but i bet it would work nice. of coarse its not very practical using two floors (one for roots and one for plants) but alot of things i(we) DO arent practical. imagine walking into a basement with nothing but these columns hanging down.
Click to expand...
Big bucks for the Aquatic Eco-systems tubing and you would have to paint it any way to keep the light from the roots. I would just use some cheap FRP paneling from Home Depot or Lowes. About $23 for a 84' by 8' sheet or $28 for a 4' by 10'. Figure a 1" overlap for joining the edges, so (47/3.1416) = 14.9 inch diamter tube of fiber reinforced plastic. If you want it stronger just glue two layers together with contact cement.
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
A cheap option could be layflat poly tubing they use for ventilation in tunnels, a 330ft roll costs pennies, all you`d need is some hoops to keep it open.
I didn`t notice the rotary vane pump, $3300 for essentially a glorified espresso machine ;)
 
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travish413

Well-Known Member
Ok, I just went to lowes and bought a 1hp lawn pump. It says it will maintain a pressure of 70 psi. I also got a 5 gallon diaphram tank rated at 100 psi. Do i need to install a relief valve or what should I install between the pump and the tank. They had switches to shut the pump of at 60psi and turn it on at 40psi but I wanted to get the most pressure I could so I didnt purchase one. So how would yall set this up? The guy at lowes said i would be ok with out anything bc the pump wasnt big enough to blow the tank but i am just concerned with maintaining my pressure. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.:weed:
 
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travish413

Well-Known Member
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tree farmer

Well-Known Member
you need a pressure switch to control the pump. most pressure switches are adjustable so even though its a 60-40psi switch it can be adjusted to a higher setting like 70-50psi. the range the pump you bought works in. the pump plumbes into the pressure tank with a tee. do a search for pressure tank installation and it will show you how to hook up the pump to the tank. it will also show you how to hook up the pressure switch that will control the pump. now you need some way to control the flow out of the pressure tank and thats done with a solenoid valve thats controlled by a repeat cycle timer. thats what biocontrols hydro controllers are. ( a solenoid with a repeat cycle timer)then just run the line to a distribution manifold that splits up the flow to however many misters you are going to run.
 
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tree farmer

Well-Known Member
travish413 said:
Here is the pump i bought http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=24840-48284-58418-LWS1&lpage=none and here is the tank http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=160659-48324-LPT-5&lpage=none. The tank is the same brand as the pump but basically the the same tank. I wasnt sure if i needed any kind of relief valve since my pump will only maintain 70 psi. And should I return this pump and go bigger? Or should i get good results out of this pump?:peace:
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that pump will work and run alot of misters but the tank you got is pretty small for that large pump. ive used pumps like that with 20-40 gallon tanks. the tank is just to small to work decent with that pump. the pump will fill the thing in less that a minute. it will probably cause the pump to cycle on and off rapidly if you can get it to work at all. it says 5 gallon tank but that means it will only acutually hold about 1 gallon of water the rest is filled up with the air bladder.
 
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travish413

Well-Known Member
tree farmer said:
that pump will work and run alot of misters but the tank you got is pretty small for that large pump. ive used pumps like that with 20-40 gallon tanks. the tank is just to small to work decent with that pump. the pump will fill the thing in less that a minute. it will probably cause the pump to cycle on and off rapidly if you can get it to work at all. it says 5 gallon tank but that means it will only acutually hold about 1 gallon of water the rest is filled up with the air bladder.
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Ok, thanks for that info! I read where you said that the bigger tanks were caking up with stuff so thats why i went with the smaller tank. Should i return it or run 3 or 4 of these connected together?
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
I imagine the caking is usually associated with heating of the water by pumping not the tank size itself. If so that is an aspect of the pump not the tank. If you heat soluble calcium it precipitates. Precipitaion is always a result of an over abundance of acids (carbonic) OH- or H+ (pH problems) or heat etc. There is always a related cause and an effect for an ion to form a precipitate. Greater fluid volume should not be a cause. He is definitely right about an oversized pump tank cycling to much with a small captive air tank.
 
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travish413

Well-Known Member
Thanks to everyone for all the help! I really want to do this right and when i say i grow aero i really want to mean it.:bigjoint: I just got back from lowes and bought a 20 gallon tank. Now for the cycle timer... Any suggestions on what brand or links to what else I should order. Like I said all of yalls help is greatly appreciated!
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Ideally you need to attack the design from the ground up otherwise you could be flying blind. Its best to sit down and work out the system required to do the job.. even though the temptation to rush out to buy stuff is strong :)

Start by ask yourself the basic questions; how big is the grow going to be? That will determines the number of nozzles, which determines the required flowrate and pressure. From those you can calculate/decide on the tank/pump size combo to fit the bill. All components are interrelated..a small pump can be offset by a large accumulator tank capacity to run a very large system.
 
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travish413

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Ideally you need to attack the design from the ground up otherwise you could be flying blind. Its best to sit down and work out the system required to do the job.. even though the temptation to rush out to buy stuff is strong :)

Start by ask yourself the basic questions; how big is the grow going to be? That will determines the number of nozzles, which determines the required flowrate and pressure. From those you can calculate/decide on the tank/pump size combo to fit the bill. All components are interrelated..a small pump can be offset by a large accumulator tank capacity to run a very large system.
Click to expand...
Ok, I am growing in a dr150 tent which is 5x5x7. I plan on trying to get about 20 to 30 plants and run 1 mister per plant. Will this work or what can I run with the pump and tank that i have. tree farmer said i could run 20 to 40 misters but with a 20 gallon tank is 40 possible? I actually want to run as many misters as possible. What would be the max do you think?
 
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travish413

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