MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

Hi TF
washing machine solenoids will handle 10bar (~150psi), over here they have a 3/4" bsp threaded inlet for the hose connection and a barbed outlet that accepts a 1/2" bore tube.
Hi Fatman, i guess either way,economics will favour large scale but in most cases anyone looking at a commercial scale operation isn`t likely to use aeroponics.

It is a fact of Physics that it is much easier and therefore cheaper to compress air than it is to compress a fluid.

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yes, water is virtually uncompressible, hence the water pump only compresses air held in the accumulator tank I agree that the most expensive option is a high pressure pump (without a tank) to feed the nozzles directly. HP aero gained much of its reputation for killing pumps and being unreliable using that approach.

Atomizer,
Why will industry not look to air assisted aeroponics?

It appears to be scalable to me...
And of most efficacy...

Atomizer said:

Hi TF
washing machine solenoids will handle 10bar (~150psi), over here they have a 3/4" bsp threaded inlet for the hose connection and a barbed outlet that accepts a 1/2" bore tube.
Hi Fatman, i guess either way,economics will favour large scale but in most cases anyone looking at a commercial scale operation isn`t likely to use aeroponics.
yes, water is virtually uncompressible, hence the water pump only compresses air held in the accumulator tank I agree that the most expensive option is a high pressure pump (without a tank) to feed the nozzles directly. HP aero gained much of its reputation for killing pumps and being unreliable using that approach.

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I would be so sure about the commercial not using aeroponics. I know of a huge, huge number of aeroponic systems, however they presently are low or medium pressure aero. Where I am at the footprint is a major determing factor of profit and stealth. Aero offers a small footprint. Atomized promised the a higher yield on the same foot prints due to the very close internodal spacing. Tighter fatter colas mean more yield. I think it will take a while to find the strains that will perform best without the need for massive pruning however.

I agree, most types of aero are very minimalist and even good value when you look at the long term costs associated with other methods (quality store bought compost or hydroton for example).

Treeth, i wish they would, the more popular something is the cheaper the components become.. in theory anyway

I would expect mainstream agriculture to be into air assisted aero in glass houses by now if it was commercially viable but they probably only try whats available off the shelf.
There was plenty of interest in the Atomix..the only problem was the price. The question most growers will ask is whether air assisted (or HP aero) can be made as reliable/low maintenance as low pressure aero and still outperform it by enough margin to justify the investment. Cake and eat it comes to mind but thats the reality

Fatman, check out dutch passions' The Ultimate.
It's exactly what you're looking for.

What I'm working on now is figuring out a system to cool my pods;
I bought a chiller, and I'm thinking of passing an isolated loop of coolant water through loops of hose;

Through my four pods. (different nutes different times)

I also realized now that i will have to agitate each pod's res with an aquarium pump as well.

eh. I'll be running 1 SN nozzle per pod, probably around 90psi, I hope that works for feeding.

If not ill pull back into two pods.

My experiment however is regarding the light levels needed to sustain a true cola canopy...

Whether that amount is in the 60's per foot or double that is anyones' guess,
especially with this crazy level of efficacy afforded by air assistance.

There is a huge difference betwwen what is economical for agriculture thanpot growing. We are talking about growing something that a sells for a dollar or less per pound versus $2000 plus per pound. There are commercial growrs using aero for ornamnetals such as flowers etc because it is more ecomomical than soil but flowers and ornamental house planys sell for a great deal more than tomatoes etc. I think the main hold up with aeromist development ainly lies in the smalla mount of major manafctures of atomizing nozzles. Delavan and such are making a huge mark uop on their nozzles but how many are they actually producing. atomizers workvery well at very low pressures so blowers can be used with large systems asthey produce huge volumes at lower pressures and do so cheaply. Even a smaller regenerative blower is not a piece of equipment you would want to put in a house though. I have to admit though IMHO a low pressure , medium pressure and even high pressure aero or atomizer systems are very likely not economical but for growing luxury products. Even hydro is pretty much resrved only for that or for a few high dollar vegetables.

I am planning two misters per 18 cubic foot pod at hopefully 20 psi or less. No reservoir agitation. Drain to waste. Low EC. Home mixed nutrients, of course. I have no qualms about using small anmounts of chlorine to keeo protozoa levels low or absent so I am not worried about chilling the nutrients. Increasing the level of DO in the reservoir would be counter intuitive. High nutrient DO means fast bacterial multiplication. The misted nutrients will not gain by higher nutrient DO. The mist will assure high DO in and by itself.

I do not intend on providing a lot of cooling to anything but the lights which are water cooled. I do use air conditioners but I do not intend to really chill or cool any thing below the room temp of the grow room.

Hey guys
I been busy setting up accumulator precharge pressure and checking capacities, pressures and filling times today..its fun to mess around with stuff.
Anywho, it occurred to me that it should be possible to make a relatively silent diy compressor that uses mains water pressure as the compressive force. I haven`t worked out the details but i don`t see any reason why it couldn`t work. An accumulator (working in reverse), a few solenoids and a pressure switch..cheaper than a compressor and with 12v solenoids it functions in a power outage.
I came up with a way to use mains water pressure to power a hp aero system a while back but haven`t got around to building a prototype. Too many projects on the go and too little time

If you have good mains pressure and an unmetered supply..it might be worth experimenting with.

My water cost is 4 cets per gallon and the pressure is only about 18 to 20 psi. Lots of calcium build up in the pipes and the plumbing is only ten years old.

fatman7574 said:

My water cost is 4 cets per gallon and the pressure is only about 18 to 20 psi. Lots of calcium build up in the pipes and the plumbing is only ten years old.

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Water powered pumps are pretty common guys... I've seen them mostly in smaller sizes for lab work and that sort of thing... But honestly... It's just wasteful... Even if your water is free you'll be running so much to get the sort of pressure you need you probably won't be able to take a decent shower

A few car batteries and an inverter should be enough to give you days worth of backup if you have an decently sized accumulator system....

It's always been funny to me that one of the best ways to store energy from a wind farm has historically been to pump water up hill to a damn and then extract it hydroelectrically when the wind runs out...

For myself, I'll be investing in a small 2Kw generator as a backup... And will probably have some LED lighting on batteries just to keep the photo-periods from getting screwed up in the event of power loss.

I'll also likely run a second pump, either as a hot spare or with both running constantly connected through a shuttle valve.



Oh and as far as solenoids go... I've been getting mine from STCvalve.com... They are stainless, with viton seals... High Cv factor... Nicely made....

They come in everything from 1/8th up to 3/4 for $30-50... Less if you want brass or plastic... You can also get them in AC like mine, or 12-48v as well... And not to be a total whore or anything... But they also have lots of other cool fittings and stuff... The S.S. press fittings are sweet, but they don't stock them all yet... Spendy though... $15 for the one 1/8th" S.S. elbow I ordered to play with.

Anyway... Keep cracking... I've really been enjoying the conversation... It's really great to be part of a community like this where people inovate rather then just dropping cash on commercial setups.

Oh yeah... Treeth! You just about made my side split the other day with your comment in the "ABR-1" most advanced night light ever!* Now with free dental floss for hanging.... Thread. Priceless.

I got a quote from the manufacturer, about $400 with a two week lead time to build out one of the rebel 48 boards with just high bin royal blue and red LEDs... I'm thinking I might go for it... Don't think I could really do it for much cheaper myself.


Peace,

T.M.H.

Not impressed by the TVC valves. Really their good ones are not any cheaper than major brand names. They do have a lot of lesser quality cheap valves however. But if yor already putting in a few thousand anyway why not spend a few hundred more for high quality valves. Their good quality valves are not any less than a minimum $100 each, and their high quality valves are much more than that. Most of there valves are home owner quality that would be used for applications that would not cause thousands of dollars in losses if they failed.

fatman7574 said:

Not impressed by the TVC valves. Really their good ones are not any cheaper than major brand names. They do have a lot of lesser quality cheap valves however. But if yor already putting in a few thousand anyway why not spend a few hundred more for high quality valves. Their good quality valves are not any less than a minimum $100 each, and their high quality valves are much more than that. Most of there valves are home owner quality that would be used for applications that would not cause thousands of dollars in losses if they failed.

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Don't know if that's a mistype or not... Cuz' there is a TVC valve company apparently :-S

But I really did mean STC... I can't really speak to reliability or anything just yet... But the overall quality on the ones I got seems to be very high. Check out pics in my thread if you want some idea.

http://www.stcvalve.com/Process Valve.htm#1 2S025-1/4 is the one I'm using on the manifolds...

T.M.H.

Mis type. I have a 6 or more of the stc valves that are their mid price range valves. The internal machining is fine but the casting is crude or worse. I have quaite a few of their cheap small valves on reef tanks RO systems I have set up for friends. They are OK but not anybetter than those sold else where. The insides are good and they seem to have staying power but they just do not put the care into their casting as the major valv mnafacturers. There metal density is less also. IMHO you get a better deal on their cheaper valves than their more expensive valves which show poor quality and workmanship for the cost involved.

Pity about your 20psi mains water pressure, it was just a thought
I have an hp aero cloner that runs on mains water pressure but i have more to work with (75psi). Its dtw but only uses 10L/day.. collected and used on the garden. A 16 nozzle pumpless hp might need 40L/day, a dripping tap would use more

fatman7574 said:

Mis type. I have a 6 or more of the stc valves that are their mid price range valves. The internal machining is fine but the casting is crude or worse. I have quaite a few of their cheap small valves on reef tanks RO systems I have set up for friends. They are OK but not anybetter than those sold else where. The insides are good and they seem to have staying power but they just do not put the care into their casting as the major valv mnafacturers. There metal density is less also. IMHO you get a better deal on their cheaper valves than their more expensive valves which show poor quality and workmanship for the cost involved.

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The ones I have a super sweet outside... Machined SS... But it's good to know the process valves are a bit rough around the edges. My harbor freight pump was kind of like that... It's amazing what a coat of gloss black paint will do though I'm holding off on new pics cuz' I'm so close to getting the wall with all the gear done... And since -- you know -- it's only like 2 people even reading the thread

Pity about your 20psi mains water pressure, it was just a thought
I have an hp aero cloner that runs on mains water pressure but i have more to work with (75psi). Its dtw but only uses 10L/day.. collected and used on the garden. A 16 nozzle pumpless hp might need 40L/day, a dripping tap would use more

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Makes me wonder though... What might one be able to get out of a personal water tower if one were so inclined... It's a shame... I know I saw something about a turbine (as in windmill) driven aero system somewhere on instructables with a tag-line like "feed the third world" but I can't seem to find it now.

Damn you got 75 psi water pressure, and it's free??? Well I guess technically my water is free too... But I got to pay for the 'lectricity to pump it... But I have an accumulator tank the size of most peoples home water heaters and it still isn't 75 PSI

T.M.H.

Just saw this:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Worlds_greenest_water_pump/

It makes one hell of a racket... And I guess only 27 psi, but the guy claims it was pumping some 700FT up hill... Just thought it was sort of neat.

T.M.H.

I wish it was free, i do pay an annual water bill but its not based on usage.
The solenoid and timer use a bit of power but theres no pump to breakdown or replace. The slight chlorine content disinfects the cloner with every pulse and the cuts never see the same water twice The water is pretty cold (50F) so i made a simple heat exchanger to warm it up on the way to the nozzles.
Looking at your aero thread it appears you don`t like taking the easy route either

Atomizer said:

I wish it was free, i do pay an annual water bill but its not based on usage.
The solenoid and timer use a bit of power but theres no pump to breakdown or replace. The slight chlorine content disinfects the cloner with every pulse and the cuts never see the same water twice The water is pretty cold (50F) so i made a simple heat exchanger to warm it up on the way to the nozzles.
Looking at your aero thread it appears you don`t like taking the easy route either

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Nah... I enjoy a challenge... I get depressed when there is nothing for me to put my mind to...

Plus... You know tree framer set the bar pretty high

I remember reading that long ass thread on TAG by podracer... And I got to the page where he said that it was no longer necessary to fool around with accumulator tanks and solenoids and all that... And I was kind of sad

Then I read this thread... And I remember thinking, "That is the BIGGEST pressure gauge I have ever seen!"

And I was happy again


T.M.H.

y`know, i thought exactly the same thing about TF`s pressure guage, it must be at least 4" diameter. Marvellous bit of kit though.. no need to squint to see what the pressure is

Atomizer said:

y`know, i thought exactly the same thing about TF`s pressure guage, it must be at least 4" diameter. Marvellous bit of kit though.. no need to squint to see what the pressure is

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the gauge is big because i always hated having to get my glasses to read the gauges on other apps i had.

that TAG thread was the most wasted time of my life reading it. i found no useful info there. what little i found and used has turned out to be wrong info.

I am 99 percent happy with the performance of the pods. everything works as it should. only thing i would do different is put the silk screen bottoms in the pods to lift the roots off the floor like i had in my LP aero apps. Even though the sinks drain completely, the roots as they accumulate act as dams and hold tiny bits of water from flowing back to the res. where as if they were lifted off the floor they would be 100 percent out of any runoff. easy fix though.

Peeps who say these HP aero ops arent reliable i think just havent taken the time to build them properly with quality parts and most importantly planning. and ive read most people who try this method give up when they run into obsticales and convert thier systems to LP aeros or DWC or ebb and flows.

Ill admit i have never seen on the net a complete run using HP aero but i know people are doing it they just arent posting the grow journals and i can totally relate to thier reasons for not posting.

I`ll have to keep on squinting until i can find one that size
With hindsight, the old tag thread was flawed pretty much from the start. The biggest issue was the recommended misting times of 20-30 sec. The pressure swings during the misting pulse didn`t do much for uniform droplet sizes.
The thread lost the plot completely when they decided accumulators were an unnecessary complication