Multiple Questions
- Thread starter tonedub
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PrometheanLeaf
Well-Known Member
If you already have the ballasts/fixtures Use a 400w mh and a 400w hps. Otherwise look for a deal on a 630 cmh or 2x 315 cmh. If you want to go with a 600w hps it's probably the cheapest option and you probably wouldn't be disappointed with the weight you could pull scrogging or sogging.
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Joint Monster
Well-Known Member
1) In a 4x4 room = (16sqft.). You can go somewhere between 50-65W per sqft.
That would be 800W - 1040W. Keep in mind the larger the light, the more heat that must be exhausted.
I would personally choose two dimmable 600W systems. Given your preferences here's what you should consider. You would get better coverage with two 400W units, but you would sacrifice some lumens. (light strength).
2) LEDs can be just as good as HID systems. It really comes down to if the LED is comparable to the HID. A Quantum board will be more comparable to a HID than blurples.
That would be 800W - 1040W. Keep in mind the larger the light, the more heat that must be exhausted.
I would personally choose two dimmable 600W systems. Given your preferences here's what you should consider. You would get better coverage with two 400W units, but you would sacrifice some lumens. (light strength).
2) LEDs can be just as good as HID systems. It really comes down to if the LED is comparable to the HID. A Quantum board will be more comparable to a HID than blurples.
How do regular home-use light bulbs compare? (Seriously)
Joint Monster
Well-Known Member
They don't. (Seriously!)
...
1000W HPS (Hortilux) 145,000 Lumens
125W Apolo CFL Grow Bulb 6300 Lumens
60W Household Bulb 900 Lumens
You would need 23 Apollo CFL Bulbs to get an equivalent Lumen Count. (Just in numbers, for simplicity's sake.) One of these bulbs are like $40-50... so 23 would not be worth buying!
You would need 161 Household Bulbs to match the Lumen Count of a 1000W HPS Bulb. Good look with that fire hazard, if you could even fit it inside of a 3x3 or 4x4 tent!
These are just rough estimates. There would be a GREAT different in PAR numbers as well.
...
1000W HPS (Hortilux) 145,000 Lumens
125W Apolo CFL Grow Bulb 6300 Lumens
60W Household Bulb 900 Lumens
You would need 23 Apollo CFL Bulbs to get an equivalent Lumen Count. (Just in numbers, for simplicity's sake.) One of these bulbs are like $40-50... so 23 would not be worth buying!
You would need 161 Household Bulbs to match the Lumen Count of a 1000W HPS Bulb. Good look with that fire hazard, if you could even fit it inside of a 3x3 or 4x4 tent!
These are just rough estimates. There would be a GREAT different in PAR numbers as well.
Hmm... I don't get it. Bulbs from Costco are like 1650 lumens and are 15 watts. Home Depot lights are like 14 watts. Yeah perhaps because these lights are white instead of purple makes them bad? Obviously the efficiency isn't as good as the newest quantum boards, but they can still grow plants?
Well no, only 830 watts of LED bulbs would be great for a 5X5. It's actually almost too much because you need to keep the lights about 24 inches above the plants without burning them. I know this because I'm doing this now. I know people laugh at us, but we still pull 1.2 to 1.6 grams per watt. Obviously they work, but again not as efficient as the modern quantum boards. But darn close enough for those who choose to use them.
Are you HPS guys pulling 1.6 grams per watt common? (I came from there)
Joint Monster
Well-Known Member
I just found your average household bulb from HD, that was the description... 60W / 900Lumen. That was the most 1-dimensional example I could give to show a comparison of the three bulbs, via comparison of lumens.
I wasn't saying you that you need 1000k watts in a 5x5. I was simply comparing the lumen output of the HPS to CFLs.
I've run 2K HPS (dimmed to 1.5K) in a 3.5 x 6 before without light burn, happy plants. Overkill... borderline, maybe, yeah, lol. But they loved it.
If you're pulling 1.5G/watt off HPS, why would you "Seriously" ask the difference between household-CFS and LEDs?
I've never used CFL bulbs for growing before, but I know before LED became the "normal" household bulb a lot of people used to use them successfully as grow lights while taking a hit on efficiency. Back in the late 70's I did some runs using those 4' grow tubes they used to sell.
The bulbs I use are just the regular Home Depot, Walmart, Costco, Dollar Store, etc. LED light bulbs you can get anywhere. They burn an average of about 14 watts each, so 60 bulbs makes up the 840 watts quoted.
I meant I used to use HPS. Sorry for the confusion. I think the best I likely ever did was 0.6 grams per watt with HPS, but that was many years ago when electricity was cheaper and my growing environment substandard.
I brought it up just because I haven't heard much about using regular light bulbs as a low cost option on this forum. I was really skeptical until I decided to try them myself. It allows for a lot of flexibility too in that you can control color temp just by changing out bulbs, and just keeping the bulbs directly above the plants screwed in to save power during early veg. There's no sense lighting up your tent floor. I remove the plastic covers from each light to significantly increase lumens and to get a more directional light - no hood needed.
Joint Monster
Well-Known Member
@Northwood Ah okay, I got you! Simple household CFL's would be fairly similar to house LED's.
If you're going to run more than like 10 CFLs, you might want to look into one quality hoticulture cfl, they're usually stronger wattages but a little pricier than regular CFLs. Either way, you can pull a decent micro or tent grow with that!
To OP, booms 111 gave a good suggestion. My original suggestion would be the optimal suggestion imo. (2x 600w dimmable with air cooled hoods). If you can only purchase one, get the 600W but you can get an extra large hood, that should disperse the light much better.
Have you decided on a hood yet? If you haven't, and you're new to HID's then I would suggest an air-cooled hood. HID produce significantly more heat than other systems.
If you're going to run more than like 10 CFLs, you might want to look into one quality hoticulture cfl, they're usually stronger wattages but a little pricier than regular CFLs. Either way, you can pull a decent micro or tent grow with that!
To OP, booms 111 gave a good suggestion. My original suggestion would be the optimal suggestion imo. (2x 600w dimmable with air cooled hoods). If you can only purchase one, get the 600W but you can get an extra large hood, that should disperse the light much better.
Have you decided on a hood yet? If you haven't, and you're new to HID's then I would suggest an air-cooled hood. HID produce significantly more heat than other systems.
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
@Northwood I've used E27 LED too, and for the price you can't beat em..
CFLs, if they are old, will give more UV light due to the cracks on the inside of the bulbs that develop over time. I'd use some if had some to supplement the E27 LED because of that added UV, but LED are better in general (better efficacy and ppfd/w) and I'd recommend the LED over the CFL for the main source but don't hate on CFL and think the added UV is beneficial.
I started growing w/ CFL. I had about 25 of those shop light clamp reflector fixtures loaded with 26w CFLs for 4 plants. It worked but LEDs yield denser and bigger bud.
9 bulb fixture
(5) 3000k - 30w ($0.80/bulb)
(4) 6500k - 20w ($0.65/bulb)
10 bulb fixture
(6) 3000k - 30w
(4) 6500k - 20w
Just flipped to 12/12..
What do you guys use for your R/B ratio?
CFLs, if they are old, will give more UV light due to the cracks on the inside of the bulbs that develop over time. I'd use some if had some to supplement the E27 LED because of that added UV, but LED are better in general (better efficacy and ppfd/w) and I'd recommend the LED over the CFL for the main source but don't hate on CFL and think the added UV is beneficial.
I started growing w/ CFL. I had about 25 of those shop light clamp reflector fixtures loaded with 26w CFLs for 4 plants. It worked but LEDs yield denser and bigger bud.
9 bulb fixture
(5) 3000k - 30w ($0.80/bulb)
(4) 6500k - 20w ($0.65/bulb)
10 bulb fixture
(6) 3000k - 30w
(4) 6500k - 20w
Just flipped to 12/12..
What do you guys use for your R/B ratio?
herballuvmonkey
Well-Known Member
So your pulling 2lbs to 3lbs per harvest with leds ? I call bullshit. Let’s see the pics.
Yeah you're right. No one has ever pulled off 1.2 grams per watt of LED before, let alone a kilogram from a 5'x5' tent. Impossible!
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
What's your w/ft2 and what's your typical g/w (is it 1.2)? I'm trying to figure if I'm tracking or lacking (I also use RDWC & E27 LED).. Most E27'ers are in micro grows. I'm curious how someone other than myself does it (w/ft2, R/B, color temps, light height, scrog/sog/lst/natural, ect..), and what they've come to expect in terms of yield (g/w)..
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Having 830 watts in a 5x5 foot growing area would equal 33.2 watts per square foot. No fans included. It seems enough because none of the strains I've grown so far stretch too crazy, but I haven't tried the more "pure" sativas yet. I know they like penetration. But all that is not what the OP was asking about, so let's start another thread?
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Sure