Michigan Supreme Court rejects cooperative medical marijuana grow operations in Kent

Timmahh said:

Wow REALLY? You actually typed that and Stand by it? you are SO Completely WRONG RARE D. You can have a caregiver and easily be your own Plant possessor, The CG can not have 12 plants for you as well. that is the difference.
YOu can name GOD as your CG and you can still retain the possession of the plants.
or
You can name a CG and NEITHER Of you need to GROW The plants.

Wow, and you say I don't understand the Law? You rare D are just Dangerous with the level of your ignorance of the 2008 MMM Act.

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He's kind of right no one needs to technically grow any plants if a caregiver is also a patient.

For example

Patient A is purely a patient who has elected to grow his own plants, however he has a caregiver patient B who has elected to have Patient C (his caregiver) to grow his plants. In my opinion you could legally argue that this chain of caregivers keeps all transfers legal as long as transferring from C to B to A.

Hell you could have a chain of 30 caregivers who don't grow but simply transfer from one caregiver to another until Patient A gets his meds...


I'm not saying this is legal fact just my interpretation. I'm very open to argument that leads to a different conclusion.

I think the medical reason to have a caregiver when you grow your own plants, would be to ensure you have access to medicine in between crops, or if your plants/medicine were destroyed.

Rare D MI said:

Not scheming huh? Let me guess... Your wife doesn't smoke, or doesn't have a qualifying condition, so she's your caregiver so you can legally possess 5 oz. instead of 2.5... Seems likes a scheme to me...what happens when you're together and have 5 oz, and the officer pulling you over says, "we'll, if you have your 2.5 oz with you, why does she have to have your 2.5 oz too?" As her not being a patient would only allow her to posess your medicine, not hers.

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Actually Rare, this is a legal situation. In fact, I frequently tell people where one is a patient and the other not, to make the non-patient the caregiver. Yes a caregiver can retain 2.5 oz even after giving 2.5 to the patient. The reason I do it is two fold. One, if non-patient wife borrows car without realizing there is meds in the back she has a defense to possess it legally. Second, if through poor planning we get 4 oz of meds on hand, it can be spread around. The extra 2.5 oz gives a little wiggle room.

Dr. Bob

McMedical said:

I think the medical reason to have a caregiver when you grow your own plants, would be to ensure you have access to medicine in between crops, or if your plants/medicine were destroyed.

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The reason to have a caregiver and possess your own plants would be to have someone else manage your garden without taking ownership of the plants for 'excess'. It is not a very workable situation (Imagine a caregiver having to go to 5 different locations to tend plants for his 5 different patients). But there may be times it does make sense. For example if there is an expert grower lived in Section 8 housing and couldn't possess plants but wanted to care for a patient elsewhere.

Dr. Bob

Dr. Bob said:

The reason to have a caregiver and possess your own plants would be to have someone else manage your garden without taking ownership of the plants for 'excess'. It is not a very workable situation (Imagine a caregiver having to go to 5 different locations to tend plants for his 5 different patients). But there may be times it does make sense. For example if there is an expert grower lived in Section 8 housing and couldn't possess plants but wanted to care for a patient elsewhere.

Dr. Bob

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That too makes sense.

McMedical said:

That too makes sense.

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Even a blind squirrel gets a nut sometimes.

Dr. Bob

Rare D MI said:

Not scheming huh? Let me guess... Your wife doesn't smoke, or doesn't have a qualifying condition, so she's your caregiver so you can legally possess 5 oz. instead of 2.5... Seems likes a scheme to me...what happens when you're together and have 5 oz, and the officer pulling you over says, "we'll, if you have your 2.5 oz with you, why does she have to have your 2.5 oz too?" As her not being a patient would only allow her to posess your medicine, not hers.

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Like I said and I will say it again not scheming at all..... Has nothing to do with holding any amount of meds for me. Plain and simple I am disabled and she needs to help me from time to time....... That simple not a scheme in any way shape or form.....................


Edited to add. She does not smoke or use marijuana in any shape or form.

ozzrokk said:

Like I said and I will say it again not scheming at all..... Has nothing to do with holding any amount of meds for me. Plain and simple I am disabled and she needs to help me from time to time....... That simple not a scheme in any way shape or form.....................


Edited to add. She does not smoke or use marijuana in any shape or form.

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This is a variation of what I was saying about a non-patient spouse accidently possessing meds (borrowed the patient/spouses car, meds in car). Clearly if Oz needs her assistance, making her caregiver makes perfect sense.

Dr. Bob

I will also add. How bout a patient that is growing their own but needs a cg help with the grow knowledge,clones, etc........ Like I said there are MANY reasons to have a cg yet grow your own meds and dr bob pointed out another one which is for general safety. Not everything or everyone in this program is in it to scam and scheme........ Sounds like I am talking to bob harris again geeeesh.......

I guess there should be another name for people who serve this function. Peripheral people that don't grow medicine, but at some time may be called upon to possess it in extenuating circumstances, or by accident.

In my opinion, caregivers should have extensive knowledge of the medicine they are providing for patients. They should be striving to further the medicinal properties of what the produce. It's almost an insult that someone who has had decades of experience or dedicated their life to cultivating this plant can have the same simple designation as someone who just buys herb on the street and sells it to patients, or someone's wife who doesn't grow or smoke.

Rare D MI said:

I guess there should be another name for people who serve this function. Peripheral people that don't grow medicine, but at some time may be called upon to possess it in extenuating circumstances, or by accident.

In my opinion, caregivers should have extensive knowledge of the medicine they are providing for patients. They should be striving to further the medicinal properties of what the produce. It's almost an insult that someone who has had decades of experience or dedicated their life to cultivating this plant can have the same simple designation as someone who just buys herb on the street and sells it to patients, or someone's wife who doesn't grow or smoke.

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There is a name for those people.... they are called 'those that are not caught'. There is nothing in the Act that I can see that would allow people to do that. You can use the 'assisting with use' argument, and that might fly. I don't know if it has been tested and I don't recommend being the test case. But someone with their back against the wall and nothing to lose might want to consider the concept.

Dr. Bob

Rare D MI said:

I guess there should be another name for people who serve this function. Peripheral people that don't grow medicine, but at some time may be called upon to possess it in extenuating circumstances, or by accident.

In my opinion, caregivers should have extensive knowledge of the medicine they are providing for patients. They should be striving to further the medicinal properties of what the produce. It's almost an insult that someone who has had decades of experience or dedicated their life to cultivating this plant can have the same simple designation as someone who just buys herb on the street and sells it to patients, or someone's wife who doesn't grow or smoke.

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I understand what you are saying but a caregiver has many many many different uses. All dependent on patient need. As long as the caregiver can do what the patient needs then said caregiver serves his/her role. My wife is an absolute expert in what she does for me as MY caregiver.......

^nice.

'Surrogate Caregiver' or temporary surrogate-CG for Patient. there is a need when CG is unavailable or not existing.

Rare D MI said:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(avb11d55j2cwgs55qy3up355))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-26426

...
(6) A clear designation showing whether the primary caregiver or the qualifying patient will be allowed under state law to possess the marihuana plants for the qualifying patient's medical use, which shall be determined based solely on the qualifying patient's preference.

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this can be interpreted a couple ways by the way it is written. But from what I gather, ozzrock's circumstance would be okay, but timmah's retarded inarticulate blathering does not make the point properly. Basically these type of situations, you guys are relying on non growing drug dealer "caregivers" for your herb and retaining you plant possession for a hobby? Why designate a caregiver at all if you're gonna grow your own plants anyway? I guess it's cool to connect your friends to you in the state registry so it looks less legitimate and more like criminal enterprises?

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In E (6) it uses the word OR specifying that the patient must choose Either OR in my opinion. I never really looked at it that way before because the form we fill out was confusing. I hear that has been changed to make it clearer which choice the Patient is making.

Rare D MI said:

Not scheming huh? Let me guess... Your wife doesn't smoke, or doesn't have a qualifying condition, so she's your caregiver so you can legally possess 5 oz. instead of 2.5... Seems likes a scheme to me...what happens when you're together and have 5 oz, and the officer pulling you over says, "we'll, if you have your 2.5 oz with you, why does she have to have your 2.5 oz too?" As her not being a patient would only allow her to posess your medicine, not hers.

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Does not matter. a CG can hold 2.5 for each assigned pt. so long as that patient does not have full access to it without getting it from the CG, there is no law being violated.

Rare D MI said:

Bah, lack of commercial operations. I think you'll find different when you move here homie. They're just not run by dispensaries like Colorado. Plenty of big commercial ops in Michigan.

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Yikes--!!


GRAND RAPIDS, MI – John Clemens Marcinkewciz II reports to a Duluth, Minn., federal prison on Jan. 8. His girlfriend, Shelley Waldron, reports to a Lexington, Ky., prison two days later.
The two are both registered medical marijuana caregivers and patients, and said they wouldn’t be in this trouble – federal prosecution for growing marijuana – if not for Michigan’s medical marijuana law.

Both will take part in a live chat on MLive.com at noon Friday, Dec. 21.

They will be joined by Kalamazoo attorney Daniel Grow, who specializes in medical marijuana cases. Grow represents Joseph Casias, who was fired by Walmart in Battle Creek after he failed a drug test. Casias, who has an inoperable brain tumor, used marijuana after work.


If you have questions for any of them, join the chat, leave questions in the comment section below, or write [email protected].

Marcinkewciz said they would not have grown marijuana if not for Michigan's medical marijuana law passed by voters in 2008.

He contends that the U.S. is nearing the end of marijuana prohibition, but some are forced to pay a high price – both financially, and with their freedom. He said legal fees have wiped out his retirement savings.

“Hopefully, something good will come out of what we have put our families through,” Marcinkewciz, the son of a former county prosecutor, said recently.

“I have a hard time believ(ing) my whole life working like a dog, owning businesses employing up to 30-plus people at a time, paying taxes … has come to this: prison,” he wrote in an email.

Marcinkewciz pleaded guilty to manufacture of 100 or more marijuana plants and conspiracy. Both charges carry minimum prison terms of five years.

Marijuana possession and manufacture is illegal under federal law.

He was not able to use Michigan’s medical marijuana law as a defense in federal court. He was originally charged in Mecosta County District Court but charges were dropped.

Police say he and Waldron, along with his nephew, who is already imprisoned, had 208 plants. The government said the state medical marijuana law does not allow cooperative growing, and he had too many plants under state law.
http://mobile.mlive....ntguid=8owqfZ4j

Rare D MI said:

I you have a designated caregiver you are not authorized to posess plants in any way period. If anyone tells you different they are lying.

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not true though.

you can have a caregiver and grow your own...

just select that box.

that caregiver is allowed an extra 2.5. no plants.

plant rights are different than just "having a cg"

and that is where people are misled a lot

tomcatjones said:

not true though.

you can have a caregiver and grow your own...

just select that box.

that caregiver is allowed an extra 2.5. no plants.

plant rights are different than just "having a cg"

and that is where people are misled a lot

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It sounds like they busted them because their plant count was to high , am I correct with my understanding that if a patient is growing their 12 plants they would not be able to take any cuttings at all ?

Cuttings are normally not considered plants until they show roots. Then is counts as a plant.