Light burn suspected in my 4x4 .

Delps8

Well-Known Member
Does ppfd really effect quality also? I always thought it was just quantity that was influenced by the amount of ppfd.
"quality" - in the Frontiers paper I attached, the definition of quality is the ratio of the mass of the inflorescence to mass of the above vegetative matter (everything but the roots). The higher the better and, plants the get a lot of light tend to have a higher ratio.

From what I have read THC and cannabinoid content tend not to vary with PPFD/DLI and there's no concept of "dense nugs" when light levels are discussed. The only time I've seen "dense nugs" discussed was in a video by Mr Growit while interviewing Bugbee and, to Bugbee, it was a non-issue because that's usually a function of genetics, assuming there are no significant issues with the grow.

When plants receive very little light they have very distinct characteristics - large internodal distance, not a lot of inflorescence, and they tend to be quite tall. The word "scraggly" is apt.



I've attached two pictures of plants that were grown in "high light" levels and that were vegged using a veg light. They're the exact opposite of plants that have had very little light - short, compact, and very dense foliage.

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This is a 29 day old Glookie (photo) that's running at 800µmol @ 24/0. It's 800 at dead center but I need to raise the light to get things to even out. The plant has been topped but I haven't started LST (lazy) yet. The spectrum for this light is the one on the left. The high percentage of blue light helps keep the plant short and compact, the high light levels result in a lot of photosynthesis/growth activity.

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I keep my canopy no higher than 800 ppfd since I'm not supplementing CO2.
800 - great!

Two questions - why did you stop at 800 and how did you measure your PPFD?

RE. 800 - I've run as high as 1050µmol and my grow did fine. For one grow, I left it at 900, IIRC, because there was so much weed that I wasn't interested in taking more light readings. That grow ended up at 750gm± m2. If your grow can support, say, 1kµmol you might increase yield by ≈ 8% vs having an average PPFD of 800.

If your plants are getting too much light, the first sign is that leaves with "taco" or "canoe" or, perhaps, rotate the leaf around the petiole in the same way that a venetian blind turns. The plant does this because it can't process the incoming photons. If light levels remain high, plant tissue will be destroyed. I've also had a cola bend at 1200. The leaves recovered very quickly - they were back to their normal shape in a little over an hour. The cola that I bent had only a slight bend and didn't straighten out.

Re. measuring PPDF - per my other postings, I consider all Photone readings as suspect unless it's been calibrated against a known good source. For my $32, I'd go with a Uni-T Bluetooth light meter. For one, there's some level of accuracy out of the box (the manufacturer states ±5%) but I also like the Uni-T Bluetooth because it makes it easy to sample multiple points across the canopy. Also, I'd rather put a $32 light meter in a tent than my my $1k iPhone.

Another option for calibrating is to use Apogee's "ClearSky" app, iOS only. It's available on the App Store and Apogee put up a YouTube video on it recently. You might want to check that out.


Full disclosure - I use an Apogee as well as a Uni-T (not Bluetooth). I wrote the attached paper when I was testing my Uni-T against my Apogee.
 

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TankHankerous

Well-Known Member
I stopped at 800 because in the past when I was around 1000 I was getting some deficiencies atop the plant and figured I was pushing the plant too hard. I'm still getting deficiencies this grow atop the plant at 800 so it's probably a calcium lockout or something. I measure with a PHOTOBIO by Phantom Advanced Quantum PAR Meter.
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with you on high levels of light in flower.

He's in veg with a dli of 69 and an air temp of 71f and states the lower leaves ( where mg def start ) are fine and it's the upper leaves that are suffering.
I see no evidence that the "upper leaves…are suffering".

They were getting battered 24/7 by an unusable amount of light due to all other environmental parameters not being met.
I see no evidence of "battered" plants nor do I see any sign of an "unusable amount" of light.

The only symptoms are that there was a mag deficiency. We don't know what caused that. I understand how too much light could have caused the mag def but the fact that there are no symptoms of excess light, I wouldn't accept the assertion that it's too much light.
 
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Delps8

Well-Known Member
I stopped at 800 because in the past when I was around 1000 I was getting some deficiencies atop the plant and figured I was pushing the plant too hard. I'm still getting deficiencies this grow atop the plant at 800 so it's probably a calcium lockout or something. I measure with a PHOTOBIO LGBQM2 Advanced Quantum PAR Meter.
Got it. You hit the light saturation point for this grow (at this time). The LSP is currently less than 800µmol because of a nutrient issue.

I've attached an Apogee paper on PAR meters. Check the comment about reading light above 660nm.
 

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Update:
A week a half at 77-80 Degrees-65%RH-18/6. 400 ppfd until bounce back and just now bumped to 500 at canopy of the bigger plant. If all goes well, I'll bump a little more to see how they react. Trimmed the giant fan leaves to let some light bring up the lowers as they are looking healthy. Hoping to upgrade the light by summer to get more light to the perimeter. Thank you all for so much help, guidance , and a shit ton of info! Still studying and moving forward. I'll update again next week!
 

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A little update! Things are shaping up well and the growth is definitely ramping up. I installed a growhub to get better control on my VPD and overall conditions and it certainly makes things simpler!
Fans running 50/10 and on wind simulation mode
Lights running 572 ppfd. I rose the levels until I found the ceiling for the strain.
VPD averaging around .8-1.1
Temp 77 -80 during the day, slightly cooler at night.
Humidity 65-75. (Definitely challenging keeping this level!)
Watering with compost tea of Natures Living Soil & Molasses and a Foliar twice a week.
So far so good.
 
Update!
In to week 5 of flower. Overall buds have been developing so much larger thanks to the guidance on this thread! Thank you! Watering with a worm casting/molasses tea. Top dressed with build a flower around the time I flipped. Keeping with VPD a little higher and things have been going smoothly UNTIL now. Woke up yesterday and have a new development/concern. Any guidance to get through these last weeks and fix this would be amazing!
 

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