Light burn suspected in my 4x4 .

Hello! I’m currently running this plant on 24/0 in soil. Light: Spider Farmer se3000. Tested ph and all comes out well. Light was set to 800 ppfd at 71 degrees and 70% humidity and 16”. Buildasoil craft blend top dressed a few weeks ago. Lowers look fine it’s mainly the four uppermost fan leaves. I raised the light to 22” and lowered to 600ppfd to see if it helps but no signs just yet. Switched back to 18/6. Also removed to blumat stakes allow soil a better chance at drying a bit. Co2 bag is hanging as well. Any advice would be appreciated!! Thank you!!
 

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DeadHeadX

Well-Known Member
Hello! I’m currently running this plant on 24/0 in soil. Light: Spider Farmer se3000. Tested ph and all comes out well. Light was set to 800 ppfd at 71 degrees and 70% humidity and 16”. Buildasoil craft blend top dressed a few weeks ago. Lowers look fine it’s mainly the four uppermost fan leaves. I raised the light to 22” and lowered to 600ppfd to see if it helps but no signs just yet. Switched back to 18/6. Also removed to blumat stakes allow soil a better chance at drying a bit. Co2 bag is hanging as well. Any advice would be appreciated!! Thank you!!
I have used the same light for my previous and current grow and found that it’s easy to give the plants too much. 800 ppfd for 24 hours is more light than the plant can utilize. Look up dli (daily light index) and a related calculator for more explanation. I’d back it up and turn it down a bit. Not sure what’s happening with the plant, but light burn is certainly possible.
 
I'd say a bit of a combo issue, the excessive light is causing a mag deficiency, if turning down the lights corrects the problem on new growth, then that's great. If it doesn't maybe a spritz of epsom salts. BTW, at 71 degrees, the Co2 will not be very effective.

Mag Deficiency pics:
View attachment 5363903
Got temp to 81.5 steady with humidity to 65% and sprayed with foliage epsom under 400ppfd and this plant is bouncing back after only a few hours! Thank you guys for your guidance
 
Great idea. Started tracking details today and i’ll post once a week with the progress. I had amazing results with these last grow. Purple Chainz by scapegoat. The medicine is unreal!
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
The issue was a nutrient deficiency and was solved by using a foliar spray.

Turning down the lights had nothing to do with resolving this issue. As soon as PPFD drops, growth starts to slow down. And at 400µmol, you're now at seedling levels of illumination. Cannabis is a light whore loves light so 800 was on the low end of where you want your plants to be (the "light saturation point" for cannabis is 800-1000µmol).

Are you using Photone?
 
Yes, I’m using p
The issue was a nutrient deficiency and was solved by using a foliar spray.

Turning down the lights had nothing to do with resolving this issue. As soon as PPFD drops, growth starts to slow down. And at 400µmol, you're now at seedling levels of illumination. Cannabis is a light whore loves light so 800 was on the low end of where you want your plants to be (the "light saturation point" for cannabis is 800-1000µmol).

Are you using Photone?
Yes. I’m using photone and cross checking with a standalone meter.
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
The issue was a nutrient deficiency and was solved by using a foliar spray.

Turning down the lights had nothing to do with resolving this issue. As soon as PPFD drops, growth starts to slow down. And at 400µmol, you're now at seedling levels of illumination. Cannabis is a light whore loves light so 800 was on the low end of where you want your plants to be (the "light saturation point" for cannabis is 800-1000µmol).

Are you using Photone?
Usually 100-300umol for seedlings
400-600 for veg isn't it?

He had his light on 24/0
 
Yeah I’m pretty sure I dropped it to 350 for 4 days until the plant showed positive signs of recovery . Bumped it to 400 but at a distance of 32 instead of 18 as it was set before. also switched to 18/6
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
Yeah I’m pretty sure I dropped it to 350 for 4 days until the plant showed positive signs of recovery . Bumped it to 400 but at a distance of 32 instead of 18 as it was set before. also switched to 18/6
Hang height makes a difference in the how even the light cast is on the canopy. Of course it changes the amount of electricity needed to light the grow but the plant has no idea where photons come from because all photons are created equally, some just vibrate faster than others.

The key point is how much light for how long = DLI. If you're going from 800 and 24/0, that's a DLI of 800*24*.0036=69. If you're running 400 for 18/6, that's a DLO of 26.

A DLI of 69 is high but cannabis loves light. My 29 day old Glookie is at 800 (24/0) and I'll bump that to 900 when I finish this posting. Why so much light? Crop quality and yield increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase, up to the light saturation point, assuming that light is the limiting factor in the grow.

The italics are important because, if you flip things around, it indicates that, if you can't light your grow at 800-1000µmol, then something other than light is the limiting factor.

To my way of thinking, I'd figure out why I got the nutrient issue because if your plants get nute issues at 800µmol, you might want to change things in your grow. Cannabis will grow at 400µmol. That level of light doesn't harm the plant but the longer a cannabis plant is getting less light than the light saturation point ("LSP"), the more you're reducing crop quality and yield. The delta is almost linear, increasing about 4% for every 50µmol of PPFD, per the attached paper.

The table below is based on the paper. It starts at 600µmol because that's the lowest level of PPFD I've seen re. PPFD's in flower.

1706642597090.png
 

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Delps8

Well-Known Member
Usually 100-300umol for seedlings
400-600 for veg isn't it?

He had his light on 24/0
600 is the lowest I've seen for a recommendation for PPFD for flowering cannabis. Yes, cannabis will give you a crop at 600µmol and that will be about ½ what you could get if you were to turn the light level up to the light saturation point. As we know, many factors go into making a good crop but, if your light levels are not at the light saturation point, it's an absolute guarantee that your crop is smaller and/or of lower quality than it would be if it was growing at the LSP.

Oh, since people are using Photone - I corresponded with the programmer at growlightmeter.com when I tested Photone (I've tested it twice). I asked him for sources for their recommended light levels and the response was to refer to the citations on a given page of their site. At the time I corresponded with them, there were no citations. Given that their recommended values are at odds with results of research (and at odds with real world results!) and given that they offer nothing to support their recommendations, my preference and advice are to disregard their recommendations.
 

TankHankerous

Well-Known Member
Does ppfd really effect quality also? I always thought it was just quantity that was influenced by the amount of ppfd. I keep my canopy no higher than 800 ppfd since I'm not supplementing CO2.
 

Blue_Focus

Well-Known Member
Hello! I’m currently running this plant on 24/0 in soil. Light: Spider Farmer se3000. Tested ph and all comes out well. Light was set to 800 ppfd at 71 degrees and 70% humidity and 16”. Buildasoil craft blend top dressed a few weeks ago. Lowers look fine it’s mainly the four uppermost fan leaves. I raised the light to 22” and lowered to 600ppfd to see if it helps but no signs just yet. Switched back to 18/6. Also removed to blumat stakes allow soil a better chance at drying a bit. Co2 bag is hanging as well. Any advice would be appreciated!! Thank you!!
I have found that I had to reduce the light output to prevent light burn when I run longer hours.

I'm currently at 20/4 with my auto and I'm running at 60% with my 100w light.
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
600 is the lowest I've seen for a recommendation for PPFD for flowering cannabis. Yes, cannabis will give you a crop at 600µmol and that will be about ½ what you could get if you were to turn the light level up to the light saturation point. As we know, many factors go into making a good crop but, if your light levels are not at the light saturation point, it's an absolute guarantee that your crop is smaller and/or of lower quality than it would be if it was growing at the LSP.

Oh, since people are using Photone - I corresponded with the programmer at growlightmeter.com when I tested Photone (I've tested it twice). I asked him for sources for their recommended light levels and the response was to refer to the citations on a given page of their site. At the time I corresponded with them, there were no citations. Given that their recommended values are at odds with results of research (and at odds with real world results!) and given that they offer nothing to support their recommendations, my preference and advice are to disregard their recommendations.
I don't disagree with you on high levels of light in flower.

He's in veg with a dli of 69 and an air temp of 71f and states the lower leaves ( where mg def start ) are fine and it's the upper leaves that are suffering.

They were getting battered 24/7 by an unusable amount of light due to all other environmental parameters not being met.
 
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