Let's talk serious SCROG

profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
Well its that time again, I'm in the market for a new ec/ppm meter, last one finally ate it (the color was rubbed off most of it from occasional handling). Does anyone know if I can get by with like, a 15 dollar ppm reader from a pool and spa store? if it wasn't an emergency I would just wait and buy a good one but money is tight and I need to know where my vegging girls are at, they drink so dang fast!

I'm always trying to do things on the cheap because as a medical grower, I cannot charge my patient high prices, it just wouldn't feel right to me. I have gone as far as to use high CO2 output yeast (can't do it anymore because yeast and hydro don't work out together) instead of dumping money into Co2 tanks, it worked well but a bit of a hassle. If anyone else has a story about how they made something work on a tight budget I would love to hear about it.
 
thunderbay

thunderbay

Well-Known Member
Prof I see you are on and I need help now....3 days and 1 if my girls has grow up and is touching the light, I.m about to tuck her under...but... I realize there are so many holes she can fit in (back to front, side to side, diaganal ) so what kind of pattern should I use. The screen is a little less than 2x4 the holes are 2x2 and there are are 4 girls. Going to go take pics while I wait for an answer.
Took pics and upon closer examination that lanky plant (train wreck I assume) has 6 tops sticking through and the main is over 4 ins above screen and rather still. Hope I didn't wait too long to tuck. and as you can see one is really leafy, I can't hardly see the stalk.... anyway pics
 

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profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
thunderbay said:
Prof I see you are on and I need help now....3 days and 1 if my girls has grow up and is touching the light, I.m about to tuck her under...but... I realize there are so many holes she can fit in (back to front, side to side, diaganal ) so what kind of pattern should I use. The screen is a little less than 2x4 the holes are 2x2 and there are are 4 girls. Going to go take pics while I wait for an answer.
Took pics and upon closer examination that lanky plant (train wreck I assume) has 6 tops sticking through and the main is over 4 ins above screen and rather still. Hope I didn't wait too long to tuck. and as you can see one is really leafy, I can't hardly see the stalk.... anyway pics
Click to expand...

This is a great example of when to use the plants hormones in your favor, all the "primary" branches can be tucked back under, at this point to get your side branches to get up there a bit more you will need to tuck the primary as far as you can, make that stalk lay under the screen horazontally with none of its top above the screen. Once you do that the tallest side branches will start to focus up and grow faster, as long as they are taller than the screen. Let those go for a bit then tuck them and let even lower branches come up. The plant is going to favor the highest branch for most vigorous growth, it may take a few days to see it play out but its deffinetly apparent when it starts to happen.

Also, to promote even more growth to you're top branches cut that undergrowth asap. When your first branches hit the screen its time to clean up (I will admit I was slow to trim this last batch myself and I paid with my time) Anything small that looks like it will be weeks before it hits the screen you can remove, take fan leaves that aren't getting much light off as well.

Lookin' good, can't wait to see how your grow plays out!
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
Here's a quick mock up of what I would do.

The dominant stalks are marked in red
The "move to" location is marked in blue
The next to become dominant are marked in yellow

Top all the shoots and you will thank me XD

 
thunderbay

thunderbay

Well-Known Member
profgrow said:
Here's a quick mock up of what I would do.

The dominant stalks are marked in red
The "move to" location is marked in blue
The next to become dominant are marked in yellow

Top all the shoots and you will thank me XD

Click to expand...
THANKS a bunch....just what I needed
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
thunderbay said:
Man, nervous as a whore in church about trimming but did 1, gonna do the 1 behind it but those really bushy ones that are growing slower (only main branch has pushed through) is it time to trim them too

so far, look right ?
Click to expand...
Good start, don't be nervous about trimming, its a good thing. Nature made a plant that does very well on its own but to get the most out of it we need to "cull" the parts we cannot use, its just like trimming a fruit tree, have you ever seen a wild apple tree vs a groomed orchard tree? wild apple trees look like any other tree really, they grow straight up with an almost triangular shap. A groomed orchard tree is round, exposing more of its surface area to the light and allowing for easy gathering of the fruit.

Here's a pic of what else I would trim, maybe wait a few days if you must so you dont shock her but you can really chop half of the plant off and have no ill effects other than a few days of slowed growth.

Clip suggested site are in red





Bald below the screen is ideal.
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Prof. Move the big shoots out to the very edges, then flip and train them back under the lights and they will grow up new shoots on the way to the center. You want your apical buds under the light!!!!
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
legallyflying said:
Prof. Move the big shoots out to the very edges, then flip and train them back under the lights and they will grow up new shoots on the way to the center. You want your apical buds under the light!!!!
Click to expand...
Sorry left that bit out, figured we wern't there yet. you need to get a job as an editor!
 
legallyflying

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
Lol. I actually used to do alot of editing. I guess for further clarification, this is how my scrog training strategy works, it is underlain by the fact that the highest shoot will typically grow faster.

So when things start hitting the screen I move the big central shoots out to the side, I never let them get above the screen as they grow fast due to the size of the stalk. As soon as it is possible, I grab those skinny branches in the understory..the ones that are kind of growing horizontal or at a 45 and pull them as straight as possible and put them through a hole in the center. I let them grow up several inches before training them again.

So they are essential growing in the space in the center of the scrog that is left by pulling the main branch to the edges. When the little branch is several inches above I tuck him under and direct him towards the edge. At the same time I start bending the big (which was once te center branch) towards the center. When I am training him towards the center I let the side branches Growing off of it just come up through the screen. After about 5 days after the flip I dont pull anything back under the screen, I just let them grow up.

Any little growing tip that isn't within say 4" of the screen gets clipped off.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
legallyflying said:
Lol. I actually used to do alot of editing. I guess for further clarification, this is how my scrog training strategy works, it is underlain by the fact that the highest shoot will typically grow faster.

So when things start hitting the screen I move the big central shoots out to the side, I never let them get above the screen as they grow fast due to the size of the stalk. As soon as it is possible, I grab those skinny branches in the understory..the ones that are kind of growing horizontal or at a 45 and pull them as straight as possible and put them through a hole in the center. I let them grow up several inches before training them again.

So they are essential growing in the space in the center of the scrog that is left by pulling the main branch to the edges. When the little branch is several inches above I tuck him under and direct him towards the edge. At the same time I start bending the big (which was once te center branch) towards the center. When I am training him towards the center I let the side branches Growing off of it just come up through the screen. After about 5 days after the flip I dont pull anything back under the screen, I just let them grow up.

Any little growing tip that isn't within say 4" of the screen gets clipped off.
Click to expand...
Good call, thanks for the clarification.

Update with no pics;

Res temps are hovering in the high 60s and low 70s so of course I got algae. I was trying to go as long as I could before adding H2O2 but its time, had to use 3% but switching to 30-35% this week, still waiting to see the algae die off.

12ml per gal of 3% seems to do fine, now I just have to watch my ph as dying algae can cause violent swings
 
thunderbay

thunderbay

Well-Known Member
Did some more trimming got it pretty much cleared out under there,even trimmed the bushy 1......now time to top. Frankly I don't know where to start. I've seen plenty videos on topping but none on topping durning scrog, donno if I wait for them to come through the screen and ambush them then or cut em where they lay. Maybe as a 1st timer I just let em grow (?). I didn't realize there was an emotional side to this growing stuff.
On a side note.....my girl is pretty handy with house plants and she did something I've never seen done before....she took a piece of one of her plants (some kinda vine) and sealed it in a freezer bag where it survived for SEVERAL YEARS. Strange I think but was wondering if that would be 1 was to keep cuttings till spring....or... have I been smoking too much (either is fine lol).
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
thunderbay said:
Did some more trimming got it pretty much cleared out under there,even trimmed the bushy 1......now time to top. Frankly I don't know where to start. I've seen plenty videos on topping but none on topping durning scrog, donno if I wait for them to come through the screen and ambush them then or cut em where they lay. Maybe as a 1st timer I just let em grow (?). I didn't realize there was an emotional side to this growing stuff.
On a side note.....my girl is pretty handy with house plants and she did something I've never seen done before....she took a piece of one of her plants (some kinda vine) and sealed it in a freezer bag where it survived for SEVERAL YEARS. Strange I think but was wondering if that would be 1 was to keep cuttings till spring....or... have I been smoking too much (either is fine lol).
Click to expand...
Trimming can be emotional at first but in a couple months you will be wildly hacking at the plant just to keep it from being a jungle!

Clippings can be stored for up to several months in a ziplock stashed in the fridge, it can take a while to bring them back but they will come back.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
legallyflying said:
Light leaks cause algae, not temperature. Wrap your Rez in panda film, problem solved.
Click to expand...
My waterfarms have those bullshit blue tubes on the side and the drip rings, not sure how to completely cover the water from the light unless I just wrap the whole system in a garbage bag.
 
profgrow

profgrow

Active Member
Nvm, figured it out.

Took some tarp pieces and fit them over the top, added 3ml per gal H202 to control what algae is left and adjusting Ph to compensate for dying microbes.

pushing fert a bit harder than before, 1500 ppm, we'll see how they react, hard telling as VKs are somewhat temper-mental when it comes to nutes.

Cleared out some more underbrush and things are looking pretty good, may have to flip soon so the left plant doesn't run out of room.









 
skeeterbob

skeeterbob

Active Member
profgrow said:
Alright! someone with viable questions! I'm super excited to share this info with someone who wants to know.

First off, the bottom pic is not a true scrog, its more of what i call and "industrial scrog". This method takes multiple plants and fimm's them (fimming is a form of topping where you get 4 tops as opposed to one) so you have 4 top plants about 1 per 1.5 feet and each plant takes over its own little canopy space.

SCROG veg times very based on how big you want your scrog, I stop vegging when i have filled most of the screen, a few gaps and about 2-4 inches around the edge of the screen, after 24 hours of dark there will about 7 days in 12/12 that the plants "stretch" while flowering, during this first 7 day period take the tops that are 2-3 inches out of the screen and fill in the closest gaps, at this point most of your plant matter will be horizontal to the light and flower nodes will be better exposed to the light source, once this is done, clear out most of your undergrowth, large fan leaves and smaller branches that aren't getting any light can be removed so that all the energy of the plant goes into the tops that are exposed. During the next 2-3 weeks flowering shoots will rise above the screen, we want this, but if fan leaves start to develop above the screen and are covering other node sites cut them. This sounds time consuming but its really a couple min every week or so and your yield will be that much greater, the whole concept behind scrog is to have as much flower exposed to light as possible while controlling the distance of the canopy from the light for consistency. Some buds will be taller than others, if they get out of control try to train them down diagonally into a gap (if you have any) in the screen. Training buds completely horizontally will cause half the bud to not develop trichomes, and thats bad, moisture can also be an issue, make sure the under side of the canopy is well ventilated.

before we discuss your grow area i must ask, are you talking about ft or meters? I'm going to assume meters because i get the feeling I'm the only person on this site from America lol! 1.5x1.2 meters could accommodate 4 plants but it would be tight, you would only need to veg for 3-4 weeks, the top pic on this site is my current grow, its roughly 1 meter by .7 per side and as you can see, i have one plant per side, I vegged for around 6 weeks to fill this space. Really, you can veg as long or short as you want, i stop when i fill the space but i have seen people let they're tops go a foot or more through the screen before flowering, this seems like a waste to me but growing is so personal, who am I to say whats right? Thats not a hair i try to split.

Last but not least, if SCROG is too intimidating do what i did, start with LST, low stress training ties the tops down to control the canopy that way, you get a bunch of tops and a bunch of nugs! for me LST was just a gateway to scrog, i loved being able to move my plants more freely with LST but i find that i would rather have a better controlled canopy and light penetration than a big bushy plant that i can turn easily.

Thanks for the questions, keep em' coming, anything I can't answer i will research and figure out how to answer!

And now... SOME BUD PORN!



Big thanks to LBH for the gnarly bud pron!
Click to expand...
Alright im copying this and saving it for my grow, if anyone could head over to my channel im setting up a scrog, i have a screen set up and am building one more. i have 6 plants which only five are probably going to make it to the final stages. Please let me know if there is anything that i need to do. im on day 21 right now and am wondering when i should top my plants. Thanks!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXg5uA4LTo&feature=feedu
 
mrbluesuk

mrbluesuk

Active Member
quick question guys. i have a scrog coming into it's 4th week of flower. at what point should you stop trimming?? +rep to useful answers. thanks:peace:
 
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