Led Users Unite!
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treeman14307
Member
Incandescents are really high in red,They're expensive to run and put off considerable heat though.I am running 2 135w 5 band a 100w 3 band and a 90w 3 band led setup supplemented by 1 400w HPS in a 3x6.I've experienced good growth with leds alone,but things really fattened up with the addition of the HPS.I think it is filling in gaps in the spectrum.Week 2 in flower so I guess I'll find out in 1.5 months.
Perro Negro
Member
For LEDs, or any light for that matter, to be truly effective in maximizing a plants potential you need two things; spectrum AND power. Miss the mark on either of those and you will not see full potential. Often people focus on one at the expense of the other, from what I have seen.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
So ,a single 300 Watt panel,compared to ten panels of 30 Watts ,of same spectrum will have the same yields ?
Same power -Same spectrum ....
I think not ...
There are more than just two " variables " (Power-Spectrum ) ,concerning "full potential " of led lights ...
Like i.e . cooling ,spectrum homogeneity & power distribution and homogeneity....
' Building ' an efficient led growing panel system ,is way more complicated than just balancing Power & Spectrum ,only...
....
My 2 ¢.....
I am currently 29 days into my first crop with a Blackdog XL. I am using it for both veg and flowering.The veg was great, (short growth nodes) bushy. I will let you know how the budding goes.PS my power bill was less than last Dec when i wasnt growing. I know i must have used less power somewhere else in the house but to run the bigdog 24 hrs for 21 days and not making my bill sky high is impressive
Green Dave
Well-Known Member
Think you will be very happy with BlackDog I have 3 of them and they rock
jubiare
Active Member
Spectrum homogeneity doesn't mean much at all, it's an aesthetical thing more than anything.. especially with wide degree lenses. Well distributed spectrum panels yeah, but don't stress about it, have seen plenty of less well distributed spectrum panels do just fine. (Diyers)
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well yes,plants adapt to variations of spectrum per leaf area ....
Well no , it's not just " an aesthetical thing more than anything."....
.....
"...to be truly effective in maximizing a plants potential you need".....a light of good,if not ideal , spectral homogeneity ....
..Amongst others ....
jubiare
Active Member
Naaaaa no need to stress about it. Plenty of grows with sole strings of whites here and there in between, doing just fine. Am talking about 120/130/170 degree angle lenses. Yes good distribution but no need to get anal about it 
....I have no experience with narrow lenses 
...you prob want to stress some more in that case
....I have no experience with narrow lenses ...you prob want to stress some more in that case
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Yes ...
We agree...
120/130/170 lambertian power distribution is adequate enough ,to provide good to great light "blending "...
No..for sure homogeneity of light is not a "prime " variable that needs fine tuning ,in order to achieve overall better grow efficiency ..
but still...
If a led system has already good to great :
- leds efficiency (mW of light / mW of electricity needed )
-driving efficiency ( W of output power / W of input power )
-cooling vs power design
- ' ideal ' spectum ( ambiguous ,enough... )
-' ideal ' light power distribution
....
Ok....
Then I guess that having also a total diffused and of great homogeneity light emission ,for sure it is a " plus " ....
Not of the "great " ones maybe ...
But probably,somewhere makes that small difference ....
Anyway...
Narrow lenses to me ,automatically means ...=> " No reflective walls at grow space " ..
& .... "Greenhouse utilisation " ..
&.."decreased coverage & light saturation at small height grow spaces " ...
....
Ok no need to stress about the light spectral homogeneity..
....
Cooling and light power distribution/homogeneity are those ones ,to stress about ...
We agree...
120/130/170 lambertian power distribution is adequate enough ,to provide good to great light "blending "...
No..for sure homogeneity of light is not a "prime " variable that needs fine tuning ,in order to achieve overall better grow efficiency ..
but still...
If a led system has already good to great :
- leds efficiency (mW of light / mW of electricity needed )
-driving efficiency ( W of output power / W of input power )
-cooling vs power design
- ' ideal ' spectum ( ambiguous ,enough... )
-' ideal ' light power distribution
....
Ok....
Then I guess that having also a total diffused and of great homogeneity light emission ,for sure it is a " plus " ....
Not of the "great " ones maybe ...
But probably,somewhere makes that small difference ....
Anyway...
Narrow lenses to me ,automatically means ...=> " No reflective walls at grow space " ..
& .... "Greenhouse utilisation " ..
&.."decreased coverage & light saturation at small height grow spaces " ...
....
Ok no need to stress about the light spectral homogeneity..
....
Cooling and light power distribution/homogeneity are those ones ,to stress about ...
Perro Negro
Member
Which is why we made the move to wider angle and not the lenses many LED companies have gone to. Once you have solid power and a great spectrum the spread really can come into play. We experimented to prove this in our own R&D and continue to test lenses etc. with our Spectroradiometer. We know the exact height where every light we test is perfect in terms of distance from canopy. You would be surprised that it is not necessarily exactly where it should be based on using the angles from the lenses and solving for the footprint and distance. Usually a bit further out. However we like to have the lights closer so as to minimize the distance the light travels, whether directly below the light or at the edges of the footprint.
Perro Negro
Member
Hey JC, this will definitely depend on the levels of CO2 and other variables (genetics, nutrients, etc.) but for the Platinum XL (NOT the Platinum XL-U) you would want to be about 20"-22" off the canopy. I did see a customer get much closer but he was running a light mover about 8" to remove shadowing. He got close to 12" before bleaching.thx dave how far from the plants do you hang them during flower?
Senseimilla
Well-Known Member
When you're ready to send me one to do a side by side against blackstar 240s thread on RIU let me know -- happy to prove yours are superior and i won't charge you anything to do so 
Perro Negro
Member
Have you hooked that light up to a kill-a-watt? Curious what the actual draw is.When you're ready to send me one to do a side by side against blackstar 240s thread on RIU let me know -- happy to prove yours are superior and i won't charge you anything to do so
Senseimilla
Well-Known Member
Nope don't have one.. have been told it should be around 135w.
Perro Negro
Member
Interesting, can't find any actual wattage on their site and they just refer to it as 240w. I am guessing you are correct within 10-15 watts based on what I can gather from their site. Assuming it is 135 watts I don't believe their specifications regarding footprint will pan out. What size footprint are you growing with it? How tall are you finishing? Any special growing techniques (topping, scrogging, etc.)? How many flower cycles has your light been through and what are you averaging in final dry weight?
sgt john
Well-Known Member
I have a 240w Black Star, had 2 untill one gave out on me..
Getting rid of the broken one, and the so called good one..
It will keep a plant alive, and thats about it..
UFO's worthless
BlackStar's low end
Kessil h350, not happy with them..
SolarFlare has worked best so far..
Was just looking at the Black Dog lights today, a little pricey, but they have the 5watt leds also like the SolarFlares.
Perro Negro
Member
Hey sgt, they can seem pricey at first but if you look at the cost per watt they are actually very affordable. This does bring up a question I have wanted to ask the LED community regarding what is considered expensive or even cheap.
I always see people write this or that light is expensive but I don't know what this is being based on. We could look at cost per sq foot of coverage but that is very dependent on manufacturers claims. We could use PAR or other light measurement but again that is dependent on manufacturers claims and is not easy for an individual grower to test for confirmation. This is why I believe the best starting point for comparing LED grow lighting cost should be cost per watt ($/watt).
I am curious if anyone has a thought on what should be considered "expensive" or "cheap" when discussing LED grow lights specifically?
To be completely clear I will grab the last three from sgt john's post as an example.
Kessil h350 - I have read this pulls 73 watts but the manufacturer claims 84w so we will use that. Retail: $375 so 375/84 = $4.46/watt
SolarFlare 200w - 165 watts actual draw from their site Retail: $450 so 450/165 = $2.72/watt
Black Dog LED BD360-U - 340 watts actual draw and is rated for about the same footprint as the SolarFlare Retail: $999 so 999/340 = $2.94
Any thoughts on this and especially other ways to accurately and fairly measure cost of LED lighting?
hi, i am new to the game. i have constant backpain from two slipped discs, really wears me down; i need this.. i have four seedlings (from bag) atm two each in one gal pots outdoors (f or m, who knows at this stage, will transplant), wanna move them indoors in three weeks, under these lights: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LED-120W-120-Watts-Triband-7-1-1-Plant-Lamp-Grow-Light-/170525211713?pt=AU_Seed_Starting_Hydroponics&hash=item27b4183c41
plus three of these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251179643813?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
165w in total. will this pull me through?
soil is all organic w/ compost, horse, sheep and worm manure, w/ garlic growing too. i want to keep them compact, a ton of research in front of me... hey!
plus three of these: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251179643813?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
165w in total. will this pull me through?
soil is all organic w/ compost, horse, sheep and worm manure, w/ garlic growing too. i want to keep them compact, a ton of research in front of me... hey!