Lawyer John Conroy update from 27 Oct. 2016

JungleStrikeGuy said:
Phelan's not going to tell you to do anything. He's either going to say 'the injunction is lifted', at which point only people in the current ACMPR regime are protected. Or, he'll say 'There are problems with the ACMPR', and the injunction may continue while that litigation happens.

This is pretty much the reverse of 'if Conroy had only had another defendant in the original case', so if Conroy is unable to stay an injunction lift or commence proceedings against medical regulatory associations, the only person to blame is the one in the mirror.
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I have a current script from my doc, so why should I sign for some new BS program that seems to be worse than the MMAR for getting approved. By HC own words...the ACMPR is temporary fix until legalization is ushered in. Why should we have to jump thru HC hoops for a temp fix? Personally, I feel the injunction will stay in place until Rec MJ is legal, then the shit will really hit the fan.
 
I phoned the Donoharm clinic to see about applying under the new program. (I'am covered under the injunction)she told me... no I don't need to as, I'am already covered...then wanted $200.00 for a letter stating I'am still covered... wtf!I tried to explain to her what Conroy had said on his website... but she kept telling me I'am already covered and wanted $200.00...
 
Flash63 said:
I phoned the Donoharm clinic to see about applying under the new program. (I'am covered under the injunction)she told me... no I don't need to as, I'am already covered...then wanted $200.00 for a letter stating I'am still covered... wtf!I tried to explain to her what Conroy had said on his website... but she kept telling me I'am already covered and wanted $200.00...
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WTF?? Wow these places are just getting worse and worse, Jesus.
 
I'm currently working to obtain my papers through DoNoHarm. Haven't paid a penny yet..... Is there a better way for me to go about this? I have a ph# for a Dr. Code in Duncan, BC - does anyone have experience w him? Would I be able to obtain my papers the same way, via fax, etc w him vs the seemingly steep price at donoharm???

Or should i just continue growing as i am? For me its a matter of not getting in shit because of young family and job - i also want to start a larger legal operation w a friend at some point (commercial)

Fuck this is the most cofusing process.
 
welcome highesetHD1200 sorry for the length...but I would read it...
You are doing it for the right reasons for sure...
getting a licence and subsequently getting a section 56 exemption...will
pretty much make you exempt from criminal prosecution for anything mmj related.
It really depends on how much you would like your freedom....
I have found thru my experience a home grow can be quite a bit of work depending on what condition you are in.
The process itself has always tried to deter people from applying .
It has also been set up to make it harder than it really ever needed to be...
My wife is a retired school teacher and when I got sick ...I needed to ensure that she would not be affected
at her work, so I began the process of getting my mmj licence.
I got the run around from my GP who "did not believe in the use of mmj" and would not sign my forms .
So I asked for a referral. I was given a doctors name and began waiting for a phone call.
6 months passed and nothing.
I went back for my next appointment and was told he was very very busy and I would have to wait and I could not have his number to call myself because all he had was an answering machine.
6 more months passed... nothing so I asked the doctor again what was up.. and she said it was out of her hands and I would just have to wait...
4 months later I checked into the Dr myself and found out he had retired a couple of days after my first inquiry.
His Name was DR Sol...which to me became DR Shit Outta Luck.
so 1 year and 4 months in and nothing so far....
I went back to the Dr to complain about the whole situation....and had a sheet of paper fired at me with a list of cannabis friendly doctors....
I took matters into my own hands at this point..but the fun didn't end there....
I called the first number on the list and It was a Dr Kammermann.
I was told he was no longer able to do prescriptions but that I could call this consultant and they would steer me in the right direction.
I called and was directed about how I could go about this thru the help of a lawyer.
Seems all on the up and up.
Instead I find out to see the doctor was gonna cost me 1000 bucks....
and the doctor /lawyer/and consultant all had to get paid.
So the rest happened quickly.
I saw the doctor and had a productive appointment and was signed up as a category A patient due to my condition at the time.
but it cost me 1000 plus gst so back then 1150.00 total.
To continue on
I was outted by the government shortly after I had signed up and felt totally betrayed since I live in a town of 102 total population....and I'm sure everyone knew....
fast forward a couple of years and I have rippers attempt to rip me off...but I fend them off.. two years in a row...
so two season of no sleep and switching from working days from home to working nights from home...
so weeks of no sleep and waiting and watching for rippers....
Then our neighbour goes beserk ..and we had to get a peace bond against her and were successful ....
because of how insane she is.
This year has been the worst yet....
I had to fend off rippers in my garden because my neighbour had taken pictures and showed them to all the unsavory characters around here and a couple are my friends so they said they had to tell me.. she had 8 1/2 by 11 printed copies.
I then had to attend my mothers funeral ,so with my crop locked safely in my house..with good security and video
motion/heat sensitive detecting lights..all around...and dogs though they were with us...
Still some low life kicks in my door.. steals my fungus covered crop....which at best would have been good for
oil .....also brought and forgot to take weapons he left on the scene....
We have great video of this slug....and even recognized his face and within a couple of days...remembered where I had saw him before....
Its only a matter of time.....till he goes down....cops are building their case now....regardless I will not get my crop back
which isnt a big deal...
So should you sign up for this madness......???
travel with care....keep it out of sight...no tell ...no sell ... no smell...
and everything else in between....
Good luck..
 
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There are important clarifications to the Santos case to be made for the benefit of anyone thinking they have carte blanche to not seek medical authorization.

The full text of the decision is here : https://releve.canlii.org/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2014/2014bcpc266/2014bcpc266.html?resultIndex=9

Important things to note:

He was arrested in February 2013, and obtained a valid exemption (by the dates this should be a MMAR authorization) in August of 2013. So this is really a question about the timing and complexity of obtaining the authorization, not eschewing the system completely and getting away with it.

From Justice Challenger:

He has a 50 percent chance that he will develop a life-threatening genetic disease. He is now in the process of having that condition confirmed, but has believed he suffers from it due to ongoing symptomology. Given his family history, he expects that the age of onset will be in the next 10 years and the decline will be very rapid. He has avoided a final determination for psychological and emotional reasons. He faces the prospect that his children may have inherited the same genetic disposition from him.

And further:

In Mr. Santos' written statement to the court, he speaks about the stigma and shame he has experienced as a result of being arrested and charged for producing marihuana in his home. Indeed, he well knew he was undertaking an illegal activity. He knew he should obtain an exemption, but perceived the application process to be a cumbersome one and so did not pursue it. He was concerned about the consequences of admitting his use of marihuana to the government given the uncertain future of the exemption program. His wife did not approve of his production of marihuana in the family home. He is remorseful for his conduct and understands he must face some consequences.

So again, this is not about flouting the medical system, but acknowledging that it is cumbersome and the future of it is, even under the ACMPR, 'uncertain'. Cannabis blogs seriously misrepresented this case by omitting the true nature of the case.

Finally, this case also brings to light that the seriousness of your penalty is somewhat related to your situation (Also from Justice Challenger, in response to submissions on previous precedent):

In cases where an absolute or conditional discharge was granted, the accused was not motivated by profit and the marihuana was for medical use. In many cases, the accused pleaded guilty, was of good character, and without a criminal history. Most of the offenders demonstrated an understanding of the importance of compliance with the law and were remorseful for having come to the decision to break the law. Specific deterrence and rehabilitation was found to have been addressed by the process of investigation and prosecution. The offenders and often their families had already suffered the adverse repercussions arising from involvement in the criminal justice system. Most significantly, the moral culpability of the offenders was found to be very low.

I caution anyone who thinks showing up before a judge waving the Charter and claiming imaginary rights is also going to get you an absolute discharge.
 
Or you could just fall out of the system....maybe you died, maybe you've been cured, maybe you moved and can't grow anymore, maybe you're buying all you cannabis from the BM now...they have a pretty good system going....my point is that if you are using for medical reasons you can stand before a judge and be remorseful for what you've done even though you knew it was wrong, because you think you might contract an illness. What about the folks that already have those illnesses? It's a good precedent for doing what you need to do for your health...and what's the charter there for if not to use and rely on?
 
JungleStrikeGuy said:
I caution anyone who thinks showing up before a judge waving the Charter and claiming imaginary rights is also going to get you an absolute discharge.
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Any time you go to court is a crap shoot. Going with evidence to support your reasons for not conforming with the laws obviously worked for this guy who not only did not have an existing medical condition, his claim was he only has a 50% chance of contracting an illness. I think everyone could claim the same thing. My condition is actual, well documented by doctors and hospitals and is progressive and incurable. What possible health benefit am I to gain by discussing my choice of treatment with someone only interested in making a buck?
My rights are not imaginary.
a) “right to life, liberty and security of the person”

Autonomy

The right to liberty includes the right to make fundamental personal decisions in addition to freedom from physical constraint and interference with physical freedom. Liberty includes the right to an irreducible sphere of personal autonomy regarding matters that “can properly be characterized as fundamentally or inherently personal such that, by their very nature, they might implicate basic choices going to the core of what it means to enjoy individual dignity and independence.”[44] Within that sphere, individual choices must be free from state interference. The Supreme Court of Canada has also held that the “security of the person” protected by section 7 includes an individual’s “psychological integrity”[45] where the interference is sufficiently serious.


The security rights protected by section 7 include the right to make decisions regarding one’s own medical treatment. [46] Where a person is no longer capable of making his or her own wishes known, previously expressed wishes (while capable) must be taken into account in order to preserve, in so far as possible, this autonomous sphere.[47] Both the Substitute Decisions Act and the Health Care and Consent Act in Ontario seek to maximise personal autonomy for persons who are currently incapable by allowing for prior expressed wishes, values and beliefs to guide substitute decision as follows:


· a substitute decision for an incapable person must take into account prior expressed wishes applicable in the circumstances when making a decision on behalf of the incapable person;[48] and


· where there is no prior expressed wish applicable in the circumstances the substitute decision maker must make a decision in the best interests of the incapable person, which will include considering prior expressed wishes generally (that do not apply directly to the decision in question), the values and beliefs of the incapable person, the general benefit of the treatment to the proposed person and whether any less intrusive alternative is available.[49]


Section 7 will also be relevant in the context of legislation applying to elder abuse and exploitation. Inquiries into a potentially abusive situation may be interpreted as an intrusion into the individual’s sphere of autonomous decision making and independence, and so an infringement of the personal security protected by section 7. Unless an adult person is mentally incapable they are considered responsible for reporting and accessing help regarding any abuse (outside of a criminal offence) that they may be experiencing[50] in the absence of mandatory reporting laws. Orders restricting a respondent’s rights made pursuant to adult protection or domestic violence legislation (emergency protection orders for example) may also be considered to infringe the respondent’s section 7 rights, although the infringement may be considered to be justified under section 1.[51]

I'm not telling you or anyone else to test my theory, but I am confident I can argue for a positive outcome.
 
You still have to pay out of your own pocket to defend the charges the cops bring against you and people like conroy want lots of money to defend you. If you're not going to get yourself a permit for $500-$1000 then you may end up paying much more than that in lawyer fees in my opinion. Are you guys ready to do that if you're not going to get a permit? Personally I'm not but I'm staying within the allard MMAr injunction for another year so I am okay.
 
I'm mmar as well so no worries at present. My argument is that I should not be required to get a dr.'s permission to use a plant when and if my pinks become void. I'm sure as fuck am not going to pay anybody extortion money to treat myself with my own plants.
"The security rights protected by section 7 include the right to make decisions regarding one’s own medical treatment. "
I don't need a lawyer to argue for me, and if I did the taxpayer can pay the fees when I win.
 
I'm sitting on the fence about applying to grow and after reading this thread think I'll stay on the dark side. I live outside a small town area too and if I'd ever got that envelope sent out with MMAR plastered on it the whole town would have known.

I just got my papers signed for the first time in August after years of trying to find a doc to sign up here in northern Alberta. Was in BC and at a compassion club I was checking out in Kelowna the guy turned me on to a doc. Two visits to the doc and I have an 8g/day limit.

I don't know if it helped but I told the doc that I was into hi-CBD strains in coconut oil and didn't really enjoy getting too high so was avoiding the stonier kinds of pot. I'm over 60 so maybe that helped too. A friend who saw a doc here had to beg to get 1.5g/day as he only wanted to give her 1.

She asked about me becoming her DG but I'm for sure not willing to go to the local cops to get a criminal record check and give them something to do some early morning when they feel like hassling a patient. I've got enough potentially legal plants to grow without involving the police.

And if I just register to grow my own then who's to say that the gubbermint won't release my name to the local cops if they decide to ban home growing down the road. I don't trust the damn Liberals anymore than I trusted Herr Harper and his goons.

:peace:
 
Hate to butt in off topic, but this group of posters seems to be a well informed lot. When the panel(?) first started working on rules for rec. distribution, the rumor circulating in my state was that home grow would remain illegal. Can anyone give me the scoop on what the Gov. thinking on this is?
 
A.K.A. Overgrowem said:
Hate to butt in off topic, but this group of posters seems to be a well informed lot. When the panel(?) first started working on rules for rec. distribution, the rumor circulating in my state was that home grow would remain illegal. Can anyone give me the scoop on what the Gov. thinking on this is?
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That is the $420 question. The gov. licensed producers are lobbying for no home grows, but it will be difficult to restrict the rights of citizens when measured against current alcohol and tobacco laws for personal use. I tend to think home gardens with limited plant counts will prevail, but others will argue the opposite. It's all speculative until the task force speaks in the spring.
 
WHATFG said:
Or you could just fall out of the system....maybe you died, maybe you've been cured, maybe you moved and can't grow anymore, maybe you're buying all you cannabis from the BM now...they have a pretty good system going....my point is that if you are using for medical reasons you can stand before a judge and be remorseful for what you've done even though you knew it was wrong, because you think you might contract an illness. What about the folks that already have those illnesses? It's a good precedent for doing what you need to do for your health...and what's the charter there for if not to use and rely on?
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This is another part of the decision that is being misinterpreted:

He has a 50 percent chance that he will develop a life-threatening genetic disease. He is now in the process of having that condition confirmed, but has believed he suffers from it due to ongoing symptomology. Given his family history, he expects that the age of onset will be in the next 10 years and the decline will be very rapid. He has avoided a final determination for psychological and emotional reasons. He faces the prospect that his children may have inherited the same genetic disposition from him.

The exact nature of the disease is sealed obviously, but a genetic disease is not just something that you have a family history of. Some examples are at https://www.genome.gov/10001204/specific-genetic-disorders/. Given the 50 percent specifier, it's likely an autosomal dominant disease : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Autosomal_dominant_disorders

My best guess would be Huntington's, but the exact disease isn't the issue. Turmel tried the preventative / prophylactic argument as part of his case(s) parallel to Allard, and Phelan wasn't buying what he was selling.

The Charter is something that enshrines in law fundamental rights and freedoms, however it is not an absolute get out of jail free card. s.7 is widely misinterpreted, in the same way that 'I find cocaine/heroin/whatever helps my condition therefore I should be exempt from the CDSA' isn't going to fly, the same is true for cannabis. The case law is clear, you have a right to a constitutional exemption from blanket prohibition, not a right to use cannabis for medical reasons.
 
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