Keep getting root rot brown roots??

ttystikk said:

I won't run RDWC any other way.

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I'm curious as to how you dudes have your waterfalls setup. I get that you have a waterfall at each netpot, but what do you use for a pump and size of hose, and do you just spill directly from the hose at the top of each bin or something fancier?

That does NOT look like root rot, imo.

The real money question is, how have they been growing? Any root rot symptoms besides less than white roots?

Also, a fan of oxygenating water, but how is a waterfall any better than an air stone? You still have to have a pump that sits in the reservoir (which adds heat, waterfall) and you're mixing up the exact same atmosphere that an air pump uses, and it doesn't sit in a reservoir.

To me they both seem like they'll add atmosphere to the water, but I fail to see the hype of waterfalls over airstones, it seems to be pretty prefrencial and no real benefit either way. Maybe someone can throw a link up on how agitating water and room atmosphere vs pumping room atmosphere into water differed in the final water to atmosphere composition. IE show how waterfalls adds more O2 than airstones.

I don't use extra chlorine but my tap has it and my roots are not sparkling white (they look like your first pic) but also very healthy. Plants can't be happier. If your plants are growing well and not showing symptoms, imo, you have nothing to worry about.

And speaking thermodynamically the water will absorb any delta T between the air and water to the point that there really wouldn't be an issue. The water will absorb the heat and change its overall temp thus the reason for chillers. That's what a swamp cooler does, uses water to cool the air, in our case the water to air ratio is absurdly in favor of the water and the net temp change is minute. The specific heat capacity of water is pretty high compared to air or other materials.

graying.geek said:

I'm curious as to how you dudes have your waterfalls setup. I get that you have a waterfall at each netpot, but what do you use for a pump and size of hose, and do you just spill directly from the hose at the top of each bin or something fancier?

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https://www.rollitup.org/t/i-gotta-lose-the-air-pumps-how-plus-my-awesome-mini-dwc.960807/page-3#post-14262160

https://www.rollitup.org/t/i-gotta-lose-the-air-pumps-how-plus-my-awesome-mini-dwc.960807/page-2#post-14251657

This and the following post oughtta answer most of your questions on mine at least. TTYStick can post if he wants.

graying.geek said:

I'm curious as to how you dudes have your waterfalls setup. I get that you have a waterfall at each netpot, but what do you use for a pump and size of hose, and do you just spill directly from the hose at the top of each bin or something fancier?

Click to expand...

graying.geek said:

I'm curious as to how you dudes have your waterfalls setup. I get that you have a waterfall at each netpot, but what do you use for a pump and size of hose, and do you just spill directly from the hose at the top of each bin or something fancier?

Click to expand...

I put the pump in a control bucket where water from the tubs drains in by gravity.

The pump feeds a manifold that sends water to every tubsite. I placed an elbow fitting in the lid and the water drops into the tub near the netpot so the splash keeps it wet.

Brock_Fawkin_Samson said:

That does NOT look like root rot, imo.

The real money question is, how have they been growing? Any root rot symptoms besides less than white roots?

Also, a fan of oxygenating water, but how is a waterfall any better than an air stone? You still have to have a pump that sits in the reservoir (which adds heat, waterfall) and you're mixing up the exact same atmosphere that an air pump uses, and it doesn't sit in a reservoir.

To me they both seem like they'll add atmosphere to the water, but I fail to see the hype of waterfalls over airstones, it seems to be pretty prefrencial and no real benefit either way. Maybe someone can throw a link up on how agitating water and room atmosphere vs pumping room atmosphere into water differed in the final water to atmosphere composition. IE show how waterfalls adds more O2 than airstones.

I don't use extra chlorine but my tap has it and my roots are not sparkling white (they look like your first pic) but also very healthy. Plants can't be happier. If your plants are growing well and not showing symptoms, imo, you have nothing to worry about.

And speaking thermodynamically the water will absorb any delta T between the air and water to the point that there really wouldn't be an issue. The water will absorb the heat and change its overall temp thus the reason for chillers. That's what a swamp cooler does, uses water to cool the air, in our case the water to air ratio is absurdly in favor of the water and the net temp change is minute. The specific heat capacity of water is pretty high compared to air or other materials.

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You're missing several important points; first, waterfalls do oxygenate better than airstones, ask a professional fish keeper.

Second, airstones require compressed air. Compress a gas and you heat it.

Third, airstones do not always do a very good job churning the surface and disrupting any skin forming there.

Fourth, the same water pump that circulates water also runs the waterfall, meaning no additional pump is needed. Less complexity is always better.

Waterfalls are superior in every way.

Didnt look like rot to me. Get hydroguard and use 2mls per gal problem solved. Aerate ur rez good and change nutes every ten days dunno how often u do.

ttystikk said:

You're missing several important points; first, waterfalls do oxygenate better than airstones, ask a professional fish keeper.

Second, airstones require compressed air. Compress a gas and you heat it.

Third, airstones do not always do a very good job churning the surface and disrupting any skin forming there.

Fourth, the same water pump that circulates water also runs the waterfall, meaning no additional pump is needed. Less complexity is always better.

Waterfalls are superior in every way.

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Yaaaaaa, idk, your first 3 points are subjective or at least debatable. All that matters is DO. Where are you getting this waterfall better DO? How was it measured? A 900gph waterfall vs a 0.1cfm air pump? Lol where do you make the equivalency at? I'm pretty sure that DO is temp dependent and that either method will reach saturation effectively.

The compressed air heating your water is BS. Your water temp will be pretty much what your atmosphere temp is, minus a few degrees possibly, but never have I had water temp issues from an air stone. Like I said you need to look at the density of water to air as well as their respective Cp's. Airstones adding heat to your water is BS.

Waterfalls break up surface skim better than airstones? Lol again, how are you measuring this? Why does it matter?

Sounds like a lot of he said she said BS, show me some data.

Renfro said:

The first pic looks like pythium (root rot). The second pic looks healthy.

Water holds dissolved oxygen (this prevents pythium). Waters ability to hold dissolved oxygen is very limited at temperatures above 70 degrees F. Therefore keeping the water around 65 degrees will help the DO levels stay up. Water pumps and air pumps add heat. Your aquarium chiller may be required at a different location in your setup to get the water cool enough to hold oxygen. The best way to aerate water IME is the waterfall effect.

There are products out there that can help, beneficial bacteria, hydroguard and the like but water temperature is the main cause of pythium does not like oxygen and warm water won't hold enough dissolved oxygen.

"Pythium is a genus of parasitic oomycotes. They were formerly classified as fungi. Most species are plant parasites, but Pythium insidiosum is an important pathogen of animals, causing pythiosis. The feet of the fungus gnat are frequently a vector for their transmission."

I hope this information helps.

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As in itself your remarks are true (that water can hold more DO in warmer temperatures, and plenty of DO can help prevent Pythium) you are drawing not the right conclusions.
At 20 C (68 Fahrenheit) water can hold about 9.1 mg per liter
At 26 C (79 Fahrenheit) water can hold about 8.1 mg per liter
So that is just a small difference.
And that is in still standing water. The moment you start moving this water, the DO level will stay at 8.1, even when the plants start absorbing the DO. So with the right aeration there is always more DO available then any root can absorb. In cold water or warmer water. (if your res or tote is big enough of course)

An infection by Pythium can be caused by several reasons.
Quality and resistance of the plants;
High temperature (> 30 ° C) or strong changes in root and / or substrate temperature;
Too much root pressure. A too high root pressure can lead to cell weakness and glassiness. This gives the pythium mold more chance to penetrate the root;
Wrong fertilization or high EC value, making roots more sensitive or less resistant;
Low oxygen content in the substrate. At low oxygen values the growth of the pythium increases strongly.
Damage to root or plant during crop treatment.

So you are right that the more DO your roots get, the more you help to prevent Pythium.
But it is also important to work clean, desinfect after grows, making sure that you add enough DO to whatever hydro-system you are using.
If you keep the watertemperature down but you don't add new DO, you are doing the wrong thing.
Just make sure that your DO levels are always at their maximum and keep the temperature in a certain range, then it is ok.