Is this Tobacco Mosaic Virus? Almost three straight YEARS of total crop failure. Should I nuke the grow-op?

E

ebgms

Active Member
Phytoplankton said:
There is a thing called genetic fading, that really sounds like it may be your issue.
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When this first started one of my first thoughts was genetic drift. However, I thought if that was the case it would manifest as a gradual weakening of the crop and reduction of yield over months to years, instead of the sudden fall off a cliff from near perfect grows every time to near death every time like I have now.

What do you think?
 
Billy the Mountain

Billy the Mountain

Well-Known Member
ebgms said:
Oh believe me, I have tried. I've been at this for almost 15 yrs. I would like nothing more than to know the PH and EC of my nute solution. I've tried (7) different ph meters over the years ranging in price from ~$40 to an $500+ Hannah meter that in addition to pH did all that other wizz bang stuff like EC and PPM and uMeters/sec or w/e.

Check this out: Every single one of them gave a different reading when placed in the exact same glass of plain water (nothing added to/dissolved in it) and the best part was...none of them read 7.0. I know nothing about chemistry except that water is always neutral ph=7.0.

None of these meters were accurate, not a single one of them so they all went to the bin.

Confusis Say: Man with one thermometer know temperature. Man with more than one thermometer know confusion.
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What is "plain water"? Tap? distilled? RO?
You cannot use a pH meter to measure pH in distilled or RO water.
There's simply not enough free ions to accurately measure. It's pH 7 by definition (1:1 ratio H+ to OH-)
Tap water is generally alkaline due to carbonates and is unlikely to measure 7.0 on any meter

Trying to do hydro without knowing the pH or EC is akin to driving blind.
 
lusidghost

lusidghost

Well-Known Member
ebgms said:
Oh believe me, I have tried. I've been at this for almost 15 yrs. I would like nothing more than to know the PH and EC of my nute solution. I've tried (7) different ph meters over the years ranging in price from ~$40 to an $500+ Hannah meter that in addition to pH did all that other wizz bang stuff like EC and PPM and uMeters/sec or w/e.

Check this out: Every single one of them gave a different reading when placed in the exact same glass of plain water (nothing added to/dissolved in it) and the best part was...none of them read 7.0. I know nothing about chemistry except that water is always neutral ph=7.0.

None of these meters were accurate, not a single one of them so they all went to the bin.

Confusis Say: Man with one thermometer know temperature. Man with more than one thermometer know confusion.
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uh....
 
P

Phytoplankton

Well-Known Member
ebgms said:
That's a great idea. I didn't know water companies did this.

When/if I can find the water quality report / ph for my area I'll post it up here.

ps: Is ph even a real thing? Like, do actual scientists believe in it or is it more like fortune telling and tarot cards because that's what it seems like to me.
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PH is real!
ebgms said:
About the only thing I know about chemistry is pure H20 (aka tap water) is always neutral (ie ph=7.0). If a meter says pure H20 is anything but 7.0 the meter's wrong not a
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Don’t know how to tell you this, you failed chemistry. Tap water isn’t pure! Acceptable tap water can run anywhere from about a PH of 6.5 to 8.5 depending on the source , in some very alkaline area it can be even higher.. Distilled water should be close to a PH of 7.
 
N

nxsov180db

Well-Known Member
Stardog FPV said:
Yep that's your problem, genetic drift. The only way to correct it is to start over with new genetics.
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Tell that to the people running old school strains like sour d, blueberry, even gg4 has been around for a while now. I've got strains I've had for years and I start new moms every few months. Plants might lose a little vigor after being indoors for years but they won't just start burning leaves up like the OP lol
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
www.sciencedirect.com

Efficient shoot regeneration from direct apical meristem tissue to produce virus-free purple passion fruit plants

Purple passion fruit is an important fresh table fruit. At present, the production of passion fruit is decreasing because of the spread of viral disea…
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You can clean a plant up from it's apical meristem with tissue culture propagation. There are companies out there that will do this for cannabis.

However I'd start with a pH meter (I use a Blue Lab) and calibration solution, calibrate your meter and start by dialing in pH after you add nutrients or anything else to your solution. If you only use water I'd pH it to 6.5 if you're in soil and in your case I would check the pH of my run off and I rarely check run off for anything.

I wish you the best of luck in preserving your genetics and getting through this.
 
Kerowacked

Kerowacked

Well-Known Member
Tolerance Break said:
Looks burnt and starved. I'm guessing she couldn't metabolize the food in the soil and the lights cooked her.

You went through all those interventions without considering ph? You can get test drops for less than 20 bucks.
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Brings us back to the lights, doesnt take much to mess up metal halide, sodium can’t be much different. Only get a year or two with a wide spectrum in good condition.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
Your quote :

Check this out: Every single one of them gave a different reading when placed in the exact same glass of plain water (nothing added to/dissolved in it) and the best part was...none of them read 7.0. I know nothing about chemistry except that water is always neutral ph=7.0.

———————————————————————

That is absolutely not true. Even that water report - it is a snapshot of “ when “ it was tested not what it can be over time. I can get ph swings from municipal sources throughout day. It will change.

Your meters are calibrated to a 7.0 or so depending on manufacturer but it doesn’t mean meter is wrong.

You are hanging on the notion that “ all water “ should be 7 and but it will vary ( from city to city / source to source ) …. Even if you for some reason “ calibrated “ meters to an arbitrary 7.0 number using your “ plain water “ - it would be wrong since its true number is something you don’t like. All of those meters you say you used should have gave you numbers within an ( average collected ) range.

It was upon you to check calibration ( buffer solution ) to truly know what your water source is. Blaming all of those meters is ridiculous.
 
Tolerance Break

Tolerance Break

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
Your quote :

Check this out: Every single one of them gave a different reading when placed in the exact same glass of plain water (nothing added to/dissolved in it) and the best part was...none of them read 7.0. I know nothing about chemistry except that water is always neutral ph=7.0.

———————————————————————

That is absolutely not true. Even that water report - it is a snapshot of “ when “ it was tested not what it can be over time. I can get ph swings from municipal sources throughout day. It will change.

Your meters are calibrated to a 7.0 or so depending on manufacturer but it doesn’t mean meter is wrong.

You are hanging on the notion that “ all water “ should be 7 and but it will vary ( from city to city / source to source ) …. Even if you for some reason “ calibrated “ meters to an arbitrary 7.0 number using your “ plain water “ - it would be wrong since its true number is something you don’t like. All of those meters you say you used should have gave you numbers within an ( average collected ) range.

It was upon you to check calibration ( buffer solution ) to truly know what your water source is. Blaming all of those meters is ridiculous.
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Too add to this, RO water that sits unsealed long enough picks up carbon from the atmosphere, creating carbonic acid. My RO reads as 5.5-5.8 if I let it sit out too long.
 
ooof-da

ooof-da

Well-Known Member
Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is a base and buffered at around 8.5…meaning you can put a truckload of it in a solo cup of water and the pH will not raise higher that 8.5, okay not really in that example because of shear volume but you get the idea. That is one way to check a pH meter for its accuracy at higher ranges but the meter itself works on a curve meaning you can be right on the money at 8.5 but way off at 6.5. Carbonic acid (CO2, dry ice) is an acid and are buffered at 6.5 and anything lower will offgas…so that is another way to check the lower end of the curve. But like @Budzbuddha said; if you can get buffers and do a 2-point calibration it’s ideal.
 
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