Is this a PH issue? 1st Grow

S

s00shi

Member
Hello all,

I've attached a couple pictures of two plants that are both "freaking" out (stems twisting, leaves turning) immediately after watering. Typically it will correct itself in half a day or so.

My question is - I am giving them water and feedings @ 6.2-6.5 ph(Handheld tester and old school bottle/drops). If this is a PH issue - will flushing them fix it? Could it be anything else? The two plants that are having issues are the same strain(cake crasher - seedjunky) and there are 4 others that aren't exhibiting any of the traits.
 

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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
s00shi said:
Any thought? It also happens to be the two plants from the same strain that have given me the most issue with slow/odd growth. Is it possibly mutation?
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In a way. It looks more like a phenotypical expression of the strain.
It lacks proper vigor.

Personally speaking, "I" would run it out, just to see what it turns out like. Yet, the guys I partner with in breading and strain accumulation. Would pitch it now and if the strain was really, really desired. Pop more seeds or hunt other clone sources.

BUT

The strain and where it came from (wedding cake x Wedding crasher) sort of tells me it maybe something that is kinda normal for it. We've had minor issues with Wedding Cake. It should buck up as it gets older

Thing is, it also may sort it's self out a bit in successive cloning. The pheno will likely "shift" to the environmental conditions of your op.

This is why "I" would choose to tough it out....

Stay on top of how it wants to be feed. (More or less N, Mg, etc) Throw some Kelp extract in the next feeding! Get those micro's up. Give her a "tic" more K and be patient. It's slow rooting and needing some micro's.
The Kelp will help her root out better. So will the one time K kick...

Does she stay damp longer then the others? I would guess so.
Don't over water her! That will help her root development also.

This is a "be patient" and make some minor adjustments situation.
 
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Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
BTW, let me know how she is in a smoke report please.
I have some interest in that strain...
 
B

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
s00shi said:
Any thought? It also happens to be the two plants from the same strain that have given me the most issue with slow/odd growth. Is it possibly mutation?
Click to expand...
I use ffof. This is just a hunch, but let me ask anyway; Where those two plants stunted young? (likely by the ffof soil)

Also I would stop adding nutes for a while. I wouldn't flush, it won't hurt, maybe a light flush like 2× normal & check runnoff, but stop the newts and see if it doesn't get better
 
S

s00shi

Member
Dr. Who said:
In a way. It looks more like a phenotypical expression of the strain.
It lacks proper vigor.

Personally speaking, "I" would run it out, just to see what it turns out like. Yet, the guys I partner with in breading and strain accumulation. Would pitch it now and if the strain was really, really desired. Pop more seeds or hunt other clone sources.

BUT

The strain and where it came from (wedding cake x Wedding crasher) sort of tells me it maybe something that is kinda normal for it. We've had minor issues with Wedding Cake. It should buck up as it gets older

Thing is, it also may sort it's self out a bit in successive cloning. The pheno will likely "shift" to the environmental conditions of your op.

This is why "I" would choose to tough it out....

Stay on top of how it wants to be feed. (More or less N, Mg, etc) Throw some Kelp extract in the next feeding! Get those micro's up. Give her a "tic" more K and be patient. It's slow rooting and needing some micro's.
The Kelp will help her root out better. So will the one time K kick...

Does she stay damp longer then the others? I would guess so.
Don't over water her! That will help her root development also.

This is a "be patient" and make some minor adjustments situation.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply!

I agree - I am leaning towards running it out however I've thought about maybe cloning and running it next round. Both have quite a few less nodes than the others and one basically topped itself very early.

Pretty sure I am not over-watering at this point(cant say the same early on). I will watch to see how they do going forward.

I added an update picture of them "happy" now, notice they have what looks like "clipped" leaves(forgot to mention that earlier).

The 1st pic I added is of another CC that appears to be just a mutant?

I'm about to transplant up today in prep of flower in about 10 days. Will update on what the roots looked like for all 3.
 

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S

s00shi

Member
Beachwalker said:
I use ffof. This is just a hunch, but let me ask anyway; Where those two plants stunted young? (likely by the ffof soil)

Also I would stop adding nutes for a while. I wouldn't flush, it won't hurt, maybe a light flush like 2× normal & check runnoff, but stop the newts and see if it doesn't get better
Click to expand...

Hey brother - appreciate it. The 2 plants in question don't seem to be displaying any signs of being over-fed and do the same thing on a feed vs just ph/cal-mag water.

On a side note I don't actually believe FFOF soil to be "hot" or even the nutes at "general" feeding(with respect to plant size). I popped 2 Plat. Garlic x Plat. Kush Mints straight in FFOF and they have done very well(I would do this again except start in a 1 gallon)

To answer your original question - I believe all my plants are stunted. Most of these plants are on day 40-48 from start of germ. I am a tryhard lol - even though I technically know better I basically over-watered, over-lighted and over-everything besides nutrients(I'll drown my plants but g'damnit I won't burn them! lol)
 
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Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
s00shi said:
Hey brother - appreciate it. The 2 plants in question don't seem to be displaying any signs of being over-fed and do the same thing on a feed vs just ph/cal-mag water.

On a side note I don't actually believe FFOF soil to be "hot" or even the nutes at "general" feeding(with respect to plant size). I popped 2 Plat. Garlic x Plat. Kush Mints straight in FFOF and they have done very well(I would do this again except start in a 1 gallon)

To answer your original question - I believe all my plants are stunted. Most of these plants are on day 40-48 from start of germ. I am a tryhard lol - even though I technically know better I basically over-watered, over-lighted and over-everything besides nutrients(I'll drown my plants but g'damnit I won't burn them! lol)
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Okay so I get it you want to keep adding newts to soiled that doesn't need it yet, I get it and that's up to you.

  • The reason I suspected your plants were stunted initially:

I had one of two remo chemo's hit a hotspot in ffof as a Seedling, barely survived & yada yada.. (there's a grow journal in that Forum about it under that strain name should you be interested)

now everything I do to it curls the leaves!

It can barely take any nutes, albeit a seemingly light feeder, it's not a normal response even for a light feeder (also the first remo is a normal feeder)

the first remo has never on a hotspot, has zero Leaf curved issues. this is not the first plant thats hit a hotspot and started doing weird things all through its growth cycle either

I've recently taking clones from remo2, I want to see if they keep the curled trait, anyway that's why I asked if they were stunted early, cuz that's possibly your issue?

In my opinion a severe Hot Spot, when a plant is a Seedling can alter the plant to where it will never stop throwing hooked leaves and/or having other odd growth patterns all through its life, good luck!
 
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S

s00shi

Member
Beachwalker said:
Okay so I get it you want to keep adding newts to soiled that doesn't need it yet, I get it and that's up to you.

  • The reason I suspected your plants were stunted initially:

I had one of two remo chemo's (there's a grow journal in that Forum about it under that name should you be interested)
hit a hotspot in ffof as a Seedling, barely survived yada yada

now everything I do to it curls the leaves!

It can barely take any nutes albeit a light feeder, it's not a normal response even for a light feeder

the other remo eas never on a hotspot has zero Leaf curved issues, this is not the first plant that hit a hotspot and started doing weird things all through its growth cycle either

I've recently taking clones from it I want to see if they keep the curled trait, anyway that's why I asked if they were stunted in, cuz that's likely what happened.

In my opinion a Hot Spot, when a plant is a Seedling can alter the plant to where it will never stop throwing hooked leaves and/or having other odd growth patterns all through its life, good luck!
Click to expand...
Stunted for sure but definitely not over-fed.

The reason I don't think it's over-fed is because I'm just really not feeding it much - the last 2 feedings happened over 12 days and were both half strength(zero nutrient burn at all and random sets of leaves show minimal nitrogen toxicity. Also if you take into account the plants are in 1 gallons and on day 40+ I don't think in any world the feeding schedule I described above could be the issue just my .02 from 40 whole days experience lol. Plants are all about 12" tall. I really can't go too crazy with babying each plant because I'm running 4 strains across 13 plants, it's just too much damn work and it being my first grow I would probably end up chasing my tail anyways.

Also - I'm not saying it's not impossible for the FFOF to cause that because I just don't know. Since it worked well for me on the PG/PK and resulted a lot less work I will do it next run for sure.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
s00shi said:
Stunted for sure but definitely not over-fed.

The reason I don't think it's over-fed is because I'm just really not feeding it much - the last 2 feedings happened over 12 days and were both half strength(zero nutrient burn at all and random sets of leaves show minimal nitrogen toxicity. Also if you take into account the plants are in 1 gallons and on day 40+ I don't think in any world the feeding schedule I described above could be the issue just my .02 from 40 whole days experience lol. Plants are all about 12" tall. I really can't go too crazy with babying each plant because I'm running 4 strains across 13 plants, it's just too much damn work and it being my first grow I would probably end up chasing my tail anyways.

Also - I'm not saying it's not impossible for the FFOF to cause that because I just don't know. Since it worked well for me on the PG/PK and resulted a lot less work I will do it next run for sure.
Click to expand...
To be blunt here.
This guy is way off - or just plain wrong.... It's not any type of overfeeding and most certainly not the soil.

100% a slow to root properly pheno of the strain..... Your explanation of how the other plants from the same set of beans, are healthier,,,Confirm's my thought, exactly.

I have a pheno of Ethos Citral Flo that clones fine but, develops the root system slow...Gives me longer veg times but, the THC levels and the terp/trich expression is off the hook! I can baby this pheno for the return in quality,,,,any day! The use of Kelp extract as soon as she goes into solo's and at every up pot (with a shot in-between - now and then) help her root better. Still slow, but, better.

Try what I suggested.....Be sure to clone each differing pheno and keep the best one for quality results....Even if you have to hold it's hand in veg a bit...
I would not use this pheno as a breeder but, stash quality....worth the work..
 
S

s00shi

Member
Dr. Who said:
To be blunt here.
This guy is way off - or just plain wrong.... It's not any type of overfeeding and most certainly not the soil.

100% a slow to root properly pheno of the strain..... Your explanation of how the other plants from the same set of beans, are healthier,,,Confirm's my thought, exactly.

I have a pheno of Ethos Citral Flo that clones fine but, develops the root system slow...Gives me longer veg times but, the THC levels and the terp/trich expression is off the hook! I can baby this pheno for the return in quality,,,,any day! The use of Kelp extract as soon as she goes into solo's and at every up pot (with a shot in-between - now and then) help her root better. Still slow, but, better.

Try what I suggested.....Be sure to clone each differing pheno and keep the best one for quality results....Even if you have to hold it's hand in veg a bit...
I would not use this pheno as a breeder but, stash quality....worth the work..
Click to expand...

Thank you for the insight. Here's an update - I ended up transplanting the two rascals and their root system looked the same as the rest of the garden. I took some further data points - runoff: 660ppm after a 1100ppm feeding, PH 6.8. Now, I didn't get a chance to test the other plants, I will do this next water/feed. I'm interested to confirm your suspicions, glad I'm going through the exercise.

I'm going to transition to flower in about a week and considering making a decision on taking cuttings. I am leaning towards not taking any cuttings. Here's a ramble ....Couple reasons are: I'm not sure I have the ability to identify a plant as a stand-out for a mother. I have not completely committed to year round cultivation. I initially set out to do 1-2 and be done until this time next year.

I'll report back with some pictures and maybe a time-lapse.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Ok....
The pH of any soil run off is simply the pH of the run off...NOT the pH of the soil!

The plant sort of "sets" the soil pH to the plants "liking". For cannabis,, around 6.5 in veg, and it will creep up a tad in bloom to around 6.7 or so.

Properly run soil grows,,,,Don't need the nutrients to be pH'ed.....Personally, If the pH the nutrient mix is in +/- 1.5 of that 6.5 value.....I don't bother pH adjusting the feed/water pH..

Now low pH can be worse then high...

Soil will drop around a whole pH point when watered, and slowly return to "normal" as the soil dries back out....
This natural "swing" in pH allows for better nutrient uptake as Nutrients are best available at differing pH values. The plant upping the pH of the soil in bloom? That is allowing for better P availability among other things..

Keeping a plant to damp, for extended periods. Can bring on nutrient def's due to pH lockouts.... It looks like a nute "burn" with bad Ca def...

More info for you...
 
F

Ford20

Member
Beachwalker said:
Okay so I get it you want to keep adding newts to soiled that doesn't need it yet, I get it and that's up to you.

  • The reason I suspected your plants were stunted initially:

I had one of two remo chemo's hit a hotspot in ffof as a Seedling, barely survived & yada yada.. (there's a grow journal in that Forum about it under that strain name should you be interested)

now everything I do to it curls the leaves!

It can barely take any nutes, albeit a seemingly light feeder, it's not a normal response even for a light feeder (also the first remo is a normal feeder)

the first remo has never on a hotspot, has zero Leaf curved issues. this is not the first plant thats hit a hotspot and started doing weird things all through its growth cycle either

I've recently taking clones from remo2, I want to see if they keep the curled trait, anyway that's why I asked if they were stunted early, cuz that's possibly your issue?

In my opinion a severe Hot Spot, when a plant is a Seedling can alter the plant to where it will never stop throwing hooked leaves and/or having other odd growth patterns all through its life, good luck!
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure remo chemo and zombie kush are dirty famous for clawing. I love remo but I know a few growers that haven’t had much luck with those strains.
 
B

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
s00shi said:
Stunted for sure but definitely not over-fed.

The reason I don't think it's over-fed is because I'm just really not feeding it much - the last 2 feedings happened over 12 days and were both half strength(zero nutrient burn at all and random sets of leaves show minimal nitrogen toxicity. Also if you take into account the plants are in 1 gallons and on day 40+ I don't think in any world the feeding schedule I described above could be the issue just my .02 from 40 whole days experience lol. Plants are all about 12" tall. I really can't go too crazy with babying each plant because I'm running 4 strains across 13 plants, it's just too much damn work and it being my first grow I would probably end up chasing my tail anyways.

Also - I'm not saying it's not impossible for the FFOF to cause that because I just don't know. Since it worked well for me on the PG/PK and resulted a lot less work I will do it next run for sure.
Click to expand...
Dr. Who said:
To be blunt here.
This guy is way off - or just plain wrong.... It's not any type of overfeeding and most certainly not the soil.

100% a slow to root properly pheno of the strain..... Your explanation of how the other plants from the same set of beans, are healthier,,,Confirm's my thought, exactly.

I have a pheno of Ethos Citral Flo that clones fine but, develops the root system slow...Gives me longer veg times but, the THC levels and the terp/trich expression is off the hook! I can baby this pheno for the return in quality,,,,any day! The use of Kelp extract as soon as she goes into solo's and at every up pot (with a shot in-between - now and then) help her root better. Still slow, but, better.

Try what I suggested.....Be sure to clone each differing pheno and keep the best one for quality results....Even if you have to hold it's hand in veg a bit...
I would not use this pheno as a breeder but, stash quality....worth the work..
Click to expand...
Look how dark green they are, and the leaf curling too, there's lots of hot spots in Fox Farm ocean Forest. Anyway he doesn't want to hear me, I just use two bags of ffof this afternoon and I've had plants do exactly that in it, I've got two or three doing exactly that right now, but what do I know, good luck op

Edit: Actually I don't see much wrong with those plants in that picture to begin with?
 
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B

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
Ford20 said:
I am pretty sure remo chemo and zombie kush are dirty famous for clawing. I love remo but I know a few growers that haven’t had much luck with those strains.
Click to expand...
Check out my Remo chemo grow Journal by the same name in grow journals if you're interested, I've got a couple in flower now, good luck!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Beachwalker said:
Look how dark green they are, and the leaf curling too, there's lots of hot spots in Fox Farm ocean Forest. Anyway he doesn't want to hear me, I just use two bags of ffof this afternoon and I've had plants do exactly that in it, I've got two or three doing exactly that right now, but what do I know, good luck op

Edit: Actually I don't see much wrong with those plants in that picture to begin with?
Click to expand...

Been chatting with the guy..

He says all the plants in those pic's are from the same set of beans and in the same soil..... Not the soil......sorry.

I rather agree, not much wrong with them...They do show like every other slow rooter I ever run...That's where my call came from...

Nice idea though.....

I've popped 24 strait runs and gotten 14 very different pheno's, 6 males and 4 matching other pheno's......
Straight runs need to be run all at once and you hand pick the best pheno...

Riot has a strain that goes stupid high in concentrations....Has stupidly thick seed shells, and to get that 1 "pheno"...The rate is about 1 in 200 beans......The price for them? Around a big Ben a bean ($100) Love to have one, not spending that kinda cash to get it....
 
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