Is this a PH issue? 1st Grow

Dr. Who said:

Ok....
The pH of any soil run off is simply the pH of the run off...NOT the pH of the soil!

The plant sort of "sets" the soil pH to the plants "liking". For cannabis,, around 6.5 in veg, and it will creep up a tad in bloom to around 6.7 or so.

Properly run soil grows,,,,Don't need the nutrients to be pH'ed.....Personally, If the pH the nutrient mix is in +/- 1.5 of that 6.5 value.....I don't bother pH adjusting the feed/water pH..

Now low pH can be worse then high...

Soil will drop around a whole pH point when watered, and slowly return to "normal" as the soil dries back out....
This natural "swing" in pH allows for better nutrient uptake as Nutrients are best available at differing pH values. The plant upping the pH of the soil in bloom? That is allowing for better P availability among other things..

Keeping a plant to damp, for extended periods. Can bring on nutrient def's due to pH lockouts.... It looks like a nute "burn" with bad Ca def...

More info for you...

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Many thanks! In what situation would you be looking at soil ph and how important is it to measure runoff ph assuming everything looks ok?

I've attached a couple more pictures the first two are of the original suspects about 3 days apart - the one seems to not quite recovered as fast as it had before. Couple things I've noticed on these plants....they both don't smell compared to the rest of the crop, they seem to just be growing tall and no energy or development at nodes and the stipules are quite a bit longer (pics attached).

The last picture is of a mother of all cherries which has been struggling with showing nitrogen toxicity, at times it's just been upper fan leaves but severely clawed and leaf edges folding down. I am considering flushing this plant as the leaf curling has gotten to the point where a leaf has died, it can probably be seen in the picture.

These cake crashers are definitely not pleb friendly, in addition to the 3 pictured there are 3 others that are growing strong but responding to nutrients very differently(1 burning others deficient at very low feeding levels).

hmm what else? Really appreciate all the help!!

I added a couple shots at the end of the rest of the plants - if for anything to maybe put to bed the soil discussion.

Beachwalker said:

Look how dark green they are, and the leaf curling too, there's lots of hot spots in Fox Farm ocean Forest. Anyway he doesn't want to hear me, I just use two bags of ffof this afternoon and I've had plants do exactly that in it, I've got two or three doing exactly that right now, but what do I know, good luck op

Edit: Actually I don't see much wrong with those plants in that picture to begin with?

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I added a slightly better picture of the plant I believe is in question. It's definitely been showing nitrogen toxicity since early on(always on the upper big leaves). Its a mother of all cherries from inhouse genetics, I currently have 3 in the tent. 2 look to be very similar but this one is for sure a different plant structure, its got what I believe to be very sativa dominant leaves, I checked some of the lineage and could make sense. I've been trying to let it ride out and maybe correct itself but now that it's causing damage I want to try a flush or something because other than the curling, the plant looks to be really good!

I get what you are saying about the soil etc. I just don't want to consider the soil as the problem as the rest of the garden looks good despite probably doubling my veg time. My take on it given the landscape of seeds/breeding from what I can tell you have to be realistic with your expectations and in turn when you buy "boutique" genetics you can and probably should expect the results I'm seeing. I want to be clear that I don't have anything negative to say about the breeder at least at this point.

Dr. Who said:

Been chatting with the guy..

He says all the plants in those pic's are from the same set of beans and in the same soil..... Not the soil......sorry.

I rather agree, not much wrong with them...They do show like every other slow rooter I ever run...That's where my call came from...

Nice idea though.....

I've popped 24 strait runs and gotten 14 very different pheno's, 6 males and 4 matching other pheno's......
Straight runs need to be run all at once and you hand pick the best pheno...

Riot has a strain that goes stupid high in concentrations....Has stupidly thick seed shells, and to get that 1 "pheno"...The rate is about 1 in 200 beans......The price for them? Around a big Ben a bean ($100) Love to have one, not spending that kinda cash to get it....

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I just caught/remembered the comment on being a slow rooter - is it possible that during germination I didn't plant deep enough resulting in this?

Dr. Who said:

Ok....
The pH of any soil run off is simply the pH of the run off...NOT the pH of the soil!

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Checking pH runoff is the latest fad and unnecessary. It sends many people down the wrong path.

xtsho said:

Checking pH runoff is the latest fad and unnecessary. It sends many people down the wrong path.

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Thank you.

Here's an update - I ran probably 1.5 gallons through the MOAC that was showing severe curling/nitrogen tox and it appears to have helped. Some of the leaves corrected, all new growth looks good however the couple leaves that started out that way looks like they aren't giving up yet.

s00shi said:

I just caught/remembered the comment on being a slow rooter - is it possible that during germination I didn't plant deep enough resulting in this?

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No, phenotypic expression of genetic dominance. Kind of a broad answer compressed......The explanation of this could be very long and technical.....
Many things can effect how a seed may express it's genetic dominate expression through environmental conditions......Expanded answer, keeping in mind that the definition of "environmental conditions" is LARGE and contains many factors, many do not expect..

s00shi said:

I added a slightly better picture of the plant I believe is in question. It's definitely been showing nitrogen toxicity since early on(always on the upper big leaves). Its a mother of all cherries from inhouse genetics, I currently have 3 in the tent. 2 look to be very similar but this one is for sure a different plant structure, its got what I believe to be very sativa dominant leaves, I checked some of the lineage and could make sense. I've been trying to let it ride out and maybe correct itself but now that it's causing damage I want to try a flush or something because other than the curling, the plant looks to be really good!

I get what you are saying about the soil etc. I just don't want to consider the soil as the problem as the rest of the garden looks good despite probably doubling my veg time. My take on it given the landscape of seeds/breeding from what I can tell you have to be realistic with your expectations and in turn when you buy "boutique" genetics you can and probably should expect the results I'm seeing. I want to be clear that I don't have anything negative to say about the breeder at least at this point.

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I kind of remember this thread, I didn't reread but I guessed that your plant(s) was stunted as seedlings and I said that I had seen that in one of my two remo chemo plants and the one that was stunted cannot lose the hooked claws, I give it almost no newts and it doesn't matter, frankly I can look at it wrong and the freaking leaves cur!?

I took clones to see if it would grow out of it so far they're still rooting in soil so I don't know but they look like they're going to be normal plants?

By the way I never said the ffof soil "was the problem", as I said I use it all the time. I said your plant might have hit a hotspot in the soil

I know at least once I tried to flush that plant and it didn't stop the leaf hooking at all, so I just let it do its thing now?

Don't believe that flushing is a great evil, it's not. it can help a plant but you only need to flush when you really need to doit, so there's a case against superfluous flushing for sure

I've been in soil 3 years now so I'm still learning and am not sure when to flush in every single instance if I'm honest lol, but I would rather flush and save a plant then say nah, I guess it's okay? and have the plant get worse or die

Measure the PPM of your next plain 6.5 watering, catch about 20% run off and post what ppm & pH is ?

s00shi said:

Fox Farm Ocean Forrest Soil - fox farm nutes at 1/2 strength, cal-mag @ 4ml/gal

Light is a Optic XL Cob LED - @ ~22"

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Also I went back and looked at your pictures from the 21st, plants that small I would not have fed them any newts yet

I don't feed anything nutes for 4 to 6 weeks in ffof, or until they start telling me they are hungry & I would never feed plants that small half-strength nudes in ffof

Beachwalker said:

Also I went back and looked at your pictures from the 21st, plants that small I would not have fed them any newts yet

I don't feed anything nutes for 4 to 6 weeks in ffof, or until they start telling me they are hungry & I would never feed plants that small half-strength nudes in ffof

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First feeding was at probably day 40, they needed it and I didn't get any burn upon feeding. I did get positive results from flushing the plant that was curling badly.