Induction Lights? The newest (supposedly) technology in Induction Grow Lights

^^^^ oh you are a sly one Chaz Remove the reflector and gain at least 35% light output/efficiency, always wondered if you could run induction vertically! Running bare bulb is the best way IMO........

Hiya P!

Don't mean to appear vague on this but I really can't say much on this one and I'm not even privy to all the details. I will say that your hypothesis is not the approach they are taking. Once I'm given the green light, RIU will be the first place I share it with since the implications to the commercial greenhouse grower are 'substantial'.

chazbolin said:

Hiya P!

Don't mean to appear vague on this but I really can't say much on this one and I'm not even privy to all the details. I will say that your hypothesis is not the approach they are taking. Once I'm given the green light, RIU will be the first place I share it with since the implications to the commercial grower are enormous.

Click to expand...

Damn ..........Now I am intrigued! well will see then.....wattage bump?Ha

PSUAGRO. said:

Damn ..........Now I am intrigued! well will see then.....wattage bump?Ha

Click to expand...

C'mon ol buddy...we're talking supplement here...anyone can increase watts...this is about optimizing DLI...it'll be worth the wait...on this you'll have to trust me

SCARHOLE said:

Pics of my Riant 400 w ballast
This thing reaks of cosmoline, like a surplus AK47.
View attachment 2542814


Pic of the case for scale
View attachment 2542815

Click to expand...

Hey Scar!

One thing you should look for when dealing with China direct is that they have a listing agency certification. The preferable one being UL with others that follow. Failure to have that means in all likelihood the mfg has not met certain standards that protect the product or the consumer. Since these are high frequency drivers to save a few bucks they often avoid building in any EMF filtration into the boards. Sure the light will work but you're corrupting any electronics on the entire circuit/phase that the distorted signal is connected to. Sensitive electronics on that same circuit/phase are susceptible. If you only buy one or two units you don't have much exposure but if you're setting up a 20+ light room and the collective EMI created by your lights is knocking off their PC's or other sensitive electronics than you have a much bigger problem.

Check with the manufacturer and see what agencies are certifying them. If you could even get Mr Wu @ RIANT to point to where, at a minimum, they are certified in the Chinese Manufacturers database (ccccertichaxun) certification number I'd be interested in seeing it.

http://125.35.1.216/ccccertichaxun/cccsearch.htm

Got the okay to share part of an email I got from Darryl since the patents are in place with the Vertical Daylight Harvester they've been working on. The first installations of these are scheduled to begin within the next 3 months.

Unlike what we've seen in the emerging trends with supplemental greenhouse lighting systems whereby 1000 watt DE HPS (Philips) lamps are being specified to work in conjunction with multiple rows of horizontal LED strips (Lumi-Gro), Inda-Gro took a different approach and saw the benefits of bringing the lights closer to the plants, to reduce to the number of hours the plants might need supplemental lighting to achieve optimum levels of crop DLI and by incorporating a proprietary vertical trolley systems and controls design that reduces shadowing effects by the lamps, meets crop DLI, is energy efficient, long life, low heat and enables the commercial greenhouse gardener to manage the photoperiod and Pfr functions from a single fixture.

The VDH process benefits traditional vertical walled trellis systems or may be better suited for vertical gardens whereby the vertical garden trellis system is built in an A frame construction to match the inversely proportional geometry of the VDH frame construction. This will allow optimum DLI values be met first by the sun followed by the with the ability to consistently manage the supplemental lighting systems by maintaining parallel geometry throughout the vertical light rail process. A single local area sensor mounted on the top of the junction box will control both lamps 50-100% light output with the commensurate savings in connected load. A high/low uMol settings switch allows the local area sensors operational sensitivity to be set for thresholds of:
High Setting: 300 to 600 uMol/m2-s (Full bright if < 300, dimmed to 50% output if > 600)
Low Setting: 200 to 400 uMol/m2-s (Full bright if < 200, dimmed to 50% output if > 400)

The VDH system comes wired and nearly completely assembled with the end user required to put in 4 bolts to install the top systems bracket. The VDH will run on any 50/60Hz system that supplies between 120-277v AC. With a 10 year warranty on lamps and drivers, weighing in at 40 lbs and allowing instant on/off as well as step dimming controls this may help to make a difference in how the world see's supplemental greenhouse design going forward.

Click to expand...

Inversely proportional from the top on down with the lamp output adjusting up and down based on where it is during the travel. While the light is higher up on the trellis it may only need to be at 50% and while it's near the bottom it might want to be @ 100%. Definitely a different approach from what I've seen being done with various combinations of Plasma/HPS/LED. Should prove very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwNGhxXCNzk&feature=em-subs_digest

The 10 yr warrenty is awsome.

That's cool, but I was hoping for a acrylic cool tube version for 360 output with fan provisions..Hint hint

SCARHOLE said:

The 10 yr warrenty is awsome.

That's cool, but I was hoping for a acrylic cool tube version for 360 output with fan provisions..Hint hint

Click to expand...

The sun emits photon packs vertically where once they hit the ionosphere they are distributed in horizontal packets. I'm not a big fan of straight vertical since the plant leaf absorbs light on the tops of the leaf and so much light is lost over the tops of the fan leaves or worse damages the underside of the leaves from that intensity. I like the angled approach that the VDH design incorporates for that reason. That being said 360 is not a problem but controlling the light to put it where you want it is paramount. If you surround the lamp with all plants great but if you're running an aisle you just lost all that energy to the aisle.

The other thing you absolutely don't want to do is move too much air across the glass since the lamp won't reach optimal temperature for all of the mercury to vaporize in the tube. This reduces lamp output and efficiencies. There are competitor companies doing just this with cool tube versions of EFDL induction lamps and they don't even realize that this is actually hurting, not helping their lamps performance.

PSUAGRO. said:

^^^^ oh you are a sly one Chaz Remove the reflector and gain at least 35% light output/efficiency, always wondered if you could run induction vertically! Running bare bulb is the best way IMO........

Click to expand...

That's what I've been waiting to see, PSU!

HiloReign said:

That's what I've been waiting to see, PSU!

Click to expand...

Yeah me too!!........But it looks like Chaz is right ^^^ air circulation would lower the bulb temp and decrease light output/ efficiency. Hid bulbs also suffer from this when used in a cool tube supposedly(according to Gavita).

What benefits do induction lights have over LEP? Cost?

C
http://www.fjjk.com/en/PRODUCTS/Induction lighting/Induction Lamp/ST Series/56.html#ecms
I head fjjk makes the Indagrow induction ballast.
Is that one of the companys that makes products to spec you mentioned Chaz?

My bulb has a baby bottle nipple glued over the amalgam spur.
I believe thats purpose is to keep performance up in cold environments.
Id like to test it an see if it works for cool tubing an Small fan.
Any other lamps come with the Nipple blued to the bulb?

tony @ riant kinda dodged the question about Chinas Certifications, but he says they have applied for UL approval........

Kind of a hard question to dodge. They are either listed or they aren't. I've dealt with a variety of different Chinese manufacturers directly and as a minimum, ccccertichaxun certification is something that any US company wishing to do business with a Chinese manufacturer would want to assure the company is listed with the manufacturing standards set forth by the Chinese government for their product type. If RIANT applied for UL approval then they would have done so on their entire product line. This is not an inexpensive undertaking and I applaud their efforts to do so since that is the gold standard for quality and safety. But I'm curious why they would they not have first had the ccccertichaxun listing and would instead go straight to a very expensive and stringent UL standard? They need their own countries certifications first. My guess is Tony isn't giving you this information since it might point to the actual manufacturer and not many are aware of this database and it's mostly in Chinese.

Inda-Gro has their own UL listing which you can check out by typing in their name under the UL database search @ http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/template/LISEXT/1FRAME/index.html

I'm not sure who Inda-Gro uses for glass/board work in China. FJJK is another manufacturer over their that like LVD, YML, etc. will, if the $$$ is right, customize a phosphor blend or control system to specification. The problem is repeatability and the usual follow through poor customer support unless the US manufacturer has a thorough understanding of the technology and can correct issues before they are sold and support warranty claims after the sale. I've been to their shop in San Diego and have seen the gardens for product development, assembly and tests these undergo as well as borosilicate and quartz glass work they've done in house. I have no doubt that is it weren't for the fact that the EPA restricts US manufacturers from phosphors handling (thanks GE Lighting) the entire process would be done in the US. At that point the consumer would have to ask themselves is it worth paying more because the product was manufactured entirely in the US? You already know the answer. Price is no guarantee of value. Just because it's made in the USA won't necessarily make it better. It'll depend on who is doing the manufacturing and does their product actually outperform the competitors as a better value.

The rubber boot keeps the Hg spur warmer than the surrounding glass area so in a cold environment (<30F) the glass spur will allow faster temperature rise on the Hg to fully vaporize the amalgam. Their are different pressures and mixtures of gasses that also come into play when induction lamps are subject to these environments continuously (think Hg oxidation) but the rubber boot is always advised if the conditions don't allow the glass surface temperature to run up to 200F. I'm not sure what your motivation is with the cool tube and the small fan. This will reduce output and performance and if the 400watt induction lamp/driver is set up and operating properly it's only contributing ~1,400 btu/hr compared to a 1000 watt HID that contributes >5000 btu/hr. Do you happen to have a bunch of cool tubes laying around that you're trying to figure out what to do with them?

The fjjk guys have pages of certifications an seem great.
(i wonder what they cost direct?)

i shed grow for my indoor an in the summer my shed (and cab) sees 110' for a few months and cooling it is a must.
i only use a bathroom 65 cfm fan in my cab
I could add a dimmer for speed controls or a pc fan on a tube.

Been thinking of switching to a tent and DiYn a long rectangle cool tube made from scratch resistant lexan I have.
I'd cut em about 6 in x40in strips and glue em with clear silicone into a square tube.
The hang the bulb vertically and put the plants in a circle
if the plants grow up around the bulb the heat shouldnt damage em.

Pics of the lil ladys under My Riant grow light.





C99 x Amnesia haze auto2 weeks flower




89 Nl5/HazeC x Bannana platinum og 3 weeks flower



Nevil haze 21 x Mullimbimby Madness
Almost pure sativa 16+ week finnisher.

^^^^^ Nice work SCAR

SCARHOLE said:

Pics of the lil ladys under My Riant grow light.

View attachment 2551459



C99 x Amnesia haze auto2 weeks flower




89 Nl5/HazeC x Bannana platinum og 3 weeks flower



Nevil haze 21 x Mullimbimby Madness
Almost pure sativa 16+ week finnisher.

Click to expand...

hey there Scar!

nice looking ladies there. i have a bit of a , tho...

in that first pic (the one i kept in the quote) it looks like the light is rather close to the plants... but looking at them they don't look to be photoinhibited...

in my current Inda-Gro side-by-side, i have the 420 at about 15 inches above the canopy. and the 420 with the pontoon is about 3 inches higher than that...

have you seen from personal experience that you need the light that close to the plants? how do they do with it raised a bit?

The bulb is about 6-8 in from canopy.
My angled mirror makes it look closer in the first pic.
(love that specular reflection)
I keep em realy close to get big buds, control stretch and keep nodes spacing tight.
I train small plants and grow the plant in the lights sweet spot.

ll update y'all with pics every few weeks...

So these things run hotter than my cmh...and are huge...same power...Inferior spectrum IMO...inferior penetration....cost way more and more to operate... I run my bulbs for 2 years...so thats 5 bulbs in 10 years $250 plus $200 for the pl deep setup///$450 vs $650...I dont see it ...and furthermore they aren't remote ballasted..and chaz why the comparison to the 1000 watt hps? as I dont see them comparing to my cmh 400's? And a 1000 is 3500 btus there abouts...my cmh's are 1280...the ceramic arc tube blocks alot of the infra red

Scar lexan blocks more light that glass

and plants get HELL in the Scarhole...