Induction Lights? The newest (supposedly) technology in Induction Grow Lights

Hyroot I am not talking shit here. That last post was an attempt at some levity. Chill out about the ass kickin ok...

I did read your previous post and it is so wrong and inaccurate because you want LED to be the energy efficient alternative to HID for indoor gardening and it's not proving to be viable for large scale operations. You have got to agree with that at least!

So along comes iGROW and they do the research and get PEER reviewed studies that prove that iGROW is far superior to any other lamp for agriculture. Before you get all twisted up again would you just read the papers from these institutes. There is no way these studies have been compromised in any fashion. Once you see for yourself the testing that has been done by these guys I have no doubt that you'll at least have to consider iGROW for your larger gardens.

http://www.igrowlights.com/index.php/research/usda-beltsville-maryland-igrow

Keep an open mind and let me get my garden up for a side by side with the BD.

gordobo said:

I did read your previous post and it is so wrong and inaccurate because you want LED to be the energy efficient alternative to HID for indoor gardening and it's not proving to be viable for large scale operations. You have got to agree with that at least!

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It's true only in some cases.

The NASA and Standford exclusively use LED in their gardens now. Obviously it can be used in large operations but the initial capital investment is what is turning people off I assume.

Beefbisquit said:

I love on the iGROW website how it says;

"This breakthrough technology will allow...."

Followed by;

"A technology invented by Nikola Tesla 120 years ago..."


Makes me chuckle a little.... which is it? Breakthrough technology, or 120 year old technology?

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Beef tesla was so ahead of his time and his research has been held back by money hungry power companys since he 1st invented re-invented the light bulb we all know this the USA had Nuclear power and makes Nuclear bombs just like the UK does just like china does and just like Russia does the reason you can`t make tube lights in the USA is simple money.

I`m sure you can made soda glass neon lights mind ?

Oh here we go reply from I-grow

Please please remember I asked them exactly the same questions as I did Inda-grow I told them (and in reality what I`m saying is true)

I basically told both company's that I work for a UK company (I do) and that we use a lot of HPS lights (I do, my work also does) and that I was considering a change over to induction lights, I liked their products but I wanted to know where the Tubes were made as I wanted to check out how green their production was.

You all saw Inda-grow admit the truth with that one question that their lamps are made in China, we all know that I-grows are either made in China or their breaking federal US law, but hell even you legal growers are doing that.

Here is their reply

"Thank you for your email. Since you seem to be an analytic person, I would suggest you spend some time on our website where most of your questions will be cleared up. Play close attention to our Research and FAQ sections and videos. After reading the data and info I am sure it will be fairly obvious to you the huge difference between an off the shelf Chinese induction light made for tunnels, that can be purchased on dozens of websites and the iGROW light technology made and developed specifically for growing great plants only.
If you still have any other concerns we can clear up, please give us a call, we love to talk iGROW."

Unlike Inda-grow they did not tell me where their lamps are made I told them I`m from the UK so what would I care if they buy them in from China or if they are breaking feral law ? I emailed them back being as clear as I could be that I would like to know where their tubes are made if they can`t tell me this they will go on my blacklist for sure.

Igrow lies. They say they have 2 universities do studies. Which one told me they have nothing to do wiith igrow. All my findings are legit and from state offices. You just keep quoting the same website. Igrows site... Which they keep changing. Show some pics of a grow. Or show a real university study thats not a link to igrows site.

When I eo a search for studies from those schools for igrow. I cant find a thing. But when I search other schools on studies of inductions. No problem


IGROW LIES

Fuck I-grow anyway the specs show that the china made tubes from 2009 (probably almost the same if not the same as the ones i-grow and inda-grow use anyway) have the correct blue and red spikes and I know from testing a 5000k and a 3000k 200w ones that they both put out well over 2000 par point blank and once warmed up you`ll get more then enough light at 50cm from the tube to grow some decent buds

The tester don`t lie and the spectral image does not lie either it`s simple the light partials are there done it will grow weed it does grow weed everyone on PSU`s VS grow have seen him veg and bloom with inda-grow and seen my plants veg under just a 200w 3000k china made induction

The only down side is that the 200w induction gives off way more heat then my "300w" van-q leds do, it`s also bigger and heavier and there`s the ballast too meaning I can`t get it as high in my tent as my leds.

Also the led`s get a much higher par on my tester and are still reading good enough light levels at 1.5m to grow buds not the best buds but better then a 300w led panel made of 1w or 3w leds will give you at 1m

This might be due to the fact I have just 4 45mm leds with 90" chips on each unit I also suspect that my choice of just red and blue @ 5:1 would mean that even if the leds and the induction had matched efficiency a simple red and blue mix will always give you more par then a wider mix of spectrum's

Also the leds are around 50w more consumption per unit but still less heat and warm up to full brightness faster and the are smaller and they only emit light down so I don`t need a hod for them.

So growing with induction alone ?

I would say get either a "plant" type or a 3000k and try to get a 400w one or bigger if you can. I`d grow 2 to 4 plants under 1 200w lamp I would not let them get much over 1m maybe 1.5m max if you were using a 400w so great for all this sog and scrog crap people love doing now lol

Led wise ? I`d like to see a 400w 4 chip unit with more of a mix then mine, uvb, deep red and some white would be cool to have in the mix but I had an induction lamp already and wanted to mix led and induction so I played to the strength of led and just went for blue and 630nm red as they are the cheapest colours and MJ uses them the more effectively.

If I was making a stand alone led units as I said I`d add more spectrum's but I`d also do my own vs grow as I`ve seen nice plants grown under just 630nm as well as just 630nm with some clf`s or some blue leds.

I would grow induction only but I would probably in an ideal world want to use 2 x 200w units either a mix of 3000k and 5000k or just 2 3000k units I would use these 2 lamps in the place of 1 600w hps so in reality about a 200w saving I think the heat output would be around the same as a 400w hps so not much of a saving on fans.

Induction and LED both have commercial and home applications for growing, as most induction sellers have shown along with us talking on here red leds are needed to get the most out of induction

As most of the LED builders on here are also starting to peg onto that LED units benefit from having some white leds in them.

Maybe a full spectrum mix is needed to build the ultimate plants or maybe the white just helps growers see their plants and notice problems sooner ?

In the end it`s the same as the old hydro vs soil arguments both have benefits and you should stick to what you get the best results with but unlike hydro and soil with induction and led you CAN HAVE BOTH there`s no need to argue over it.

Sorry to DP after a long rant but this should get its own post.

GORDOBO please read this I don`t often use red text so this should make it very easy for you.

A reply from I-grow yay.


" All Induction bulbs are made in China and are mostly glass and contain harmless phosphors and gas, I do know the phosphors our manufacturer uses are very high grade and safe. Since you are a green consumer, you will be happy to know that iGROW’s reflector is made in Cleveland, Ohio and all assembly is done in Michigan, under US strict environmental standards. All other induction lights are made entirely in China under their very lax environmental laws.

We look forward to having you as a customer, you will be very happy with iGROW and you can feel good about buying it.

C.

Cary Senders
I Grow Lights"

Well need we say more ????? Made in China mate, more then likely made by Victoria's boy`s at eslights as they been selling "super grow induction" lights for a while now 2 types one that had a bi-tube and one that is a purple colour.

They also sell the 2 tubes I put specs up, Sunray is probably the supplier to both Inda-grow and I-grow I don`t really care and I`m too much of a nice guy to start emailing people in China to find out who exactly is making them.

But $300 to $400 will get you a 400w induction "bloom" or "flower" or "super grow" or what ever name you want me to get them to slap on the invoice, I can fully understand how some people would not want to deal with the "Red Dragons" and would sooner use a usa based company

But please stop acting like I-grow or even Inda-grows products are so much better and "you get what you pay for" your simply paying for an item to be shipped twice, for a USA return address for problems and so that some other Yanky can make a bit of cash to feed his family. None of these are bad things but personally I don`t have enough money to be able to afford to be Racist lol


Happy growing pep`s

Sorry to double post but I think some people on here needed it said by it`s self let me sum it up "extra extra read all about I-grow admits I-grow tubes are made in China!"

hyroot said:

Igrow lies. They say they have 2 universities do studies. Which one told me they have nothing to do wiith igrow. All my findings are legit and from state offices. You just keep quoting the same website. Igrows site... Which they keep changing. Show some pics of a grow. Or show a real university study thats not a link to igrows site.

When I eo a search for studies from those schools for igrow. I cant find a thing. But when I search other schools on studies of inductions. No problem


IGROW LIES

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Dude you have got to be kidding right. They list the researchers they're doing testing and validation at the USDA. Dr. Jonathon Franz, Dr. David Fleischer, Dr. Eric Dietz along with their undergrad student have thoroughly tested and put up their reports on the iGROW site. You don't have to look very far my friend. Wherever you're getting your information it's just wrong!

Before you run off half cocked again just watch this video all the way through. At 1:20 in they discuss the testing protocols and validation that has been used for their products at the USDA and the various universities. They also discuss how Dr. Franz worked with them to develop these phosphor blends that Dr. David Fleischer and his students, working at the largest agricultural research center in the world, found iGROW, @ 3:12 into the video, outperformed sunlight in terms of photosynthetic impact on the crops they tested!

And while it may not be what the LED cool aid crowd wants to hear, @ 3:40 seconds into the video Ohio State did a battery of tests that gave LED's the 'thumbs down' and iGROW the 'thumbs up' as the crops grown under the iGROW responded better than when grown under LED lights. You don't have to like it but when the leaders in plant lighting academics get behind iGROW you're going to have a hard time getting the 'informed grower' to take a cannabis forum's claims over these respected institutions.

[video=youtube;nLrejfi9N64]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nLrejfi9N64&noredi rect=1[/video]

Been skimming thru this thread, that dude gordo totally works for igrow. I looked at both websites and am still trying to figure out the huge pricetag on those igrows. Does the extra 5 bills cover the supposed univ.studies?

K while you're so busy doing your Kabuki dance over your extra-extra read all about it perhaps you missed the salient point here. iGROW never has once said said that their LAMPS were made in the USA. Federal law prohibits that. You insinuate in your post no 223 that in the iGROW response they somehow side stepped that question as to where the lamp was made. That's not the case at all from what I can see. The first response may have been handled by anyone in the company and would have been a generic response. So what. In the very next post 226 you put up, in red no less, the actual message from one of the founders of iGROW who takes the time out of his schedule to candidly respond to your request and all you can claim is GOTCHA. That's low dude.

iGROW has done some major ag projects with their products and don't need to try and cater to an LED-DIYer who would undermine their efforts in some obscure forum. You have to admit that the greenhouse projects where they have designed customized light rail systems for their lights is a first in using induction to meet a crops DLI. This is really where their products will change the way indoor garden lighting projects are specified. So while it may not fit your agenda on these forums the LED will not have a place in the evolution of large scale ag lighting like iGROW will with these types of innovations for the commercial greenhouse gardener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffu7MxkbMGQ&list=PLdN8FQhoRCDnHnmBNukzfVHH1zD2VE4Ej&index=10

gordobo said:

K while you're so busy doing your Kabuki dance over your extra-extra read all about it perhaps you missed the salient point here. iGROW never has once said said that their LAMPS were made in the USA. Federal law prohibits that. You insinuate in your post no 223 that in the iGROW response they somehow side stepped that question as to where the lamp was made. That's not the case at all from what I can see. The first response may have been handled by anyone in the company and would have been a generic response. So what. In the very next post 226 you put up, in red no less, the actual message from one of the founders of iGROW who takes the time out of his schedule to candidly respond to your request and all you can claim is GOTCHA. That's low dude.

iGROW has done some major ag projects with their products and don't need to try and cater to an LED-DIYer who would undermine their efforts in some obscure forum. You have to admit that the greenhouse projects where they have designed customized light rail systems for their lights is a first in using induction to meet a crops DLI. This is really where their products will change the way indoor garden lighting projects are specified. So while it may not fit your agenda on these forums the LED will not have a place in the evolution of large scale ag lighting like iGROW will with these types of innovations for the commercial greenhouse gardener.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ffu7MxkbMGQ&list=PLdN8FQhoRCDnHnmBNukzfVHH1zD2VE4Ej&index=10

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23 pages in and your still trying to make the sale, seems like your pretty vested in this obscure forum,lol

K so while iGROW may not manufacture their LAMPS in the USA they DO recycle the mercury from their lamps by allowing the customer to snap off the rubber boot with the mercury in it and send it back to them where they use them in another lamp! That is more environmentally conscious than any of the HID lamp manufacturers. Where do you think those lamps end up going? In the LANDFILLS that's where. So even though there are some of you who do properly recycle your HID lamps think about how many of these underground growers just toss their lamps into the trash. That mercury ends up going into our groundwater and our plants uptake it. Maybe you should take the time to visit their FAQ section on the iGROW site where they describe this feature before you start bashing again.

The only thing you will need to do is crack off the mercury amalgam, which is in solid form, take it back to your retailer and they will send it back to us. We then will use that amalgam in another iGROW induction lamp. No waste and no negative impact on the environment. The lamp itself can be recycled, as you would any glass product. Imagine a light source that has almost no carbon footprint!

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K if this is the same guy that replied to you Carey Senders he even describes in this video how iGROW was the first one to bring induction to the ag world with patented custom phosphor blends. He never states that the lamps are being made in the USA!

The whole video is informative but @ 4:40 in you'll see how the custom phosphors at vegetative and bloom frequencies were designed by leading scientists and the President of Full Spectrum Solutions, Mr. Mike Nevins. That is some serious innovative horsepower being brought to the garden! You can't blame them for patenting (3:02) their work as they discuss how they were the first ones (1:30) to bring this to market and the phosphors developed for both cycles are designed to protect the Chinese from stealing their blends. You can not blame them for that. It's the world we live in unfortunately.

[video=youtube;AOJR3UMA2O4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOJR3UMA2O4&list=PLdN8FQhoRCDm7tO2vFiwmDSQ 3UMGWxRQn[/video]

If the LED panel makers were really taken seriously for large ag projects they would patent their designs to protect their intellectual property rights. But that has not been the case and here's why:

http://www.igrowlights.com/images/pdf/comparing energy efficient agricultural lighting.pdf

Don't shoot the messenger.

gordobo said:

K if this is the same guy that replied to you Carey Senders he even describes in this video how iGROW was the first one to bring induction to the ag world with patented custom phosphor blends. He never states that the lamps are being made in the USA!

The whole video is informative but @ 4:40 in you'll see how the custom phosphors at vegetative and bloom frequencies were designed by leading scientists and the President of Full Spectrum Solutions, Mr. Mike Nevins. That is some serious innovative horsepower being brought to the garden! You can't blame them for patenting (3:02) their work as they discuss how they were the first ones (1:30) to bring this to market and the phosphors developed for both cycles are designed to protect the Chinese from stealing their blends. You can not blame them for that. It's the world we live in unfortunately.

[video=youtube;AOJR3UMA2O4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOJR3UMA2O4&list=PLdN8FQhoRCDm7tO2vFiwmDSQ 3UMGWxRQn[/video]

If the LED panel makers were really taken seriously for large ag projects they would patent their designs to protect their intellectual property rights. But that has not been the case and here's why:

http://www.igrowlights.com/images/pdf/comparing%20energy%20efficient%20agricultural%20lighting.pdf

Don't shoot the messenger.

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When the messenger is carrying a gun, and shooting at anyone and everyone within range; the messenger is going to get shot.... then drawn and quartered.

Have a nice day!

Sucked back in....DAMN IT Jim! I'm an indoor gardener not a doctor. Gordobo needs a doctor! stat

Hey I got a question for SteveyG if he's still hanging with Gordo. How many of those rubber booted glass spurs with Hg amalgam in them do you think got sent back to Ohio/Michigan than forwarded back to China to have them installed in new igrow lights when the warranty is for 5 years and igrow has only been around for a year or so? c'mon take a guess

The only thing you will need to do is crack off the mercury amalgam, which is in solid form, take it back to your retailer and they will send it back to us. We then will use that amalgam in another iGROW induction lamp. No waste and no negative impact on the environment. The lamp itself can be recycled, as you would any glass product. Imagine a light source that has almost no carbon footprint!

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BTW if you turn the light on it has a carbon footprint. How do you 'imagine almost no carbon footprint'?

Well under EU law any bulb that contains mercury has to be disposed of by someone with a licence to do so, I would assume the laws in the USA are some what the same meaning that you don`t need to snap off anything just take the lamp to your local recycling center.

Also you were the one that slated anything made in China and never acknowledged to anyone until now that I-grows tubes are made in China

As far as "ground breaking research go`s" It`s hardly cold fusion buddy it`s stoner science most of the world could not give a shit

Also please please please under stand something there is no such thing as a veg light or a bloom light ok ?

This is all bullshit that light company`s say to sell more lights man you can also do not have to run 18/6 to veg there are many light cycles that will let you veg for less money 12/5.5/1/5.5 for example or 6/6/6/6

Both use less power and will keep a plant in veg with less stress then 18/6 but people do what works for them I run 12/5/2/5 as my veg cycle and it works very well better then 18/6 or 20/4 or 24/0 ever did for me less stress less chance of males and less power use

Also I get a window of lights on during the night or day and as I work shift`s it means I can work on my plants anyway I want

You have to learn to just chill and try to listen to what people are trying to say, I`m not a fan of the way you post when you speak about myself and other people excuse me but you come across as a total cunt and not someone I would want to waste my time talking to in real life.

I hope that in the real world your a nice chap, but looking at a light chart and drawing a curve and then asking someone in China to build that for you does not make your product ground breaking.

I mean who do you think made the 1st run of lamps for them ? Someone in china would be my guess.

Hell I did some ground breaking work I emailed a light maker in china and ordered 2 units that I intended to be used with induction or hps or MH. red and blue at 5:1 it`s all you need to make bud, bud hell 40w of 630nm alone can still grow a nice plant.

And there I was hoping Carey Senders was a chick lol. Oh well I did send a reply to them saying it seams that due to the price of the product and the price of shipping I`m better off buying form China direct like they do I did not get a reply yet lol

What remains relevant is that the Chinese companies have been stealing US taxpayer funded lighting projects for years. iGROW was smart to develop a relationship with Full Spectrum Solutions since this a company that knows how to bring these products to market and create jobs here in the USA! I had no idea how big this FSS/Everlast was until I saw these two videos. Nowhere in either of these videos do they say the LAMPS are made in the USA. They say the fixture is made in the USA and that they are creating jobs over here that at the end of the second video a Congressman from Michigan is stating that the Chinese are stealing those jobs out from underneath Everlast's feet! You bet they need to patent these phosphor blends! It may be the only protection they have.

If you want to see how these are going to get built here in the USA take the time to watch part one and two of these videos and you'll see that the only induction light manufacturer in the world for ag will be iGROW. They will protect their intellectual properties and have done so in the past!

[video=youtube;u629cxWIVB0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u629cxWIVB0[/video]

This video includes an amazing interview with the President of FSS/Everlast, Mr. Mike Nevins and how he is working to keep the jobs in the USA and not let Chinese or importers just rip off the American taxpayer or the indoor gardener. While various interviews within these two videos have the interviewee's stating these lights are Made in the USA they never make a single reference to the LAMPS themselves being made here in the USA.

[video=youtube;oe5viYEp5_A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe5viYEp5_A[/video]

and to protect that type of infringement by the Chinese Nevins has aggressively defended the laws against those manufacturers that just relabel Chinese imports and call them American Made. Those that would make that claim or infringe upon an iGROW/FSS/Everlast patent can only count the days.

http://votesmart.org/public-statement/522858/#.UQRlFr_eco4

The bulbs have been illegal to build in the u.s. For about a 100 years. Since early 1900's. Its tech. China jumped on it in the 80's. how is that stealing tax payer jobs. If it wasn't for all the bullshit taxes. Alot more companies would be here. Most american companies now a days have relocated their home office / base to Germany and Switzerland. Why do you think Carls Jr. Left california. They are not opening anymore locations in cali. Eventually closing them. It took walmart almost 10 years of jumping through tax hoops to open in california. When every other state had locations for years before cali. On top of it we have an inept president. At least ammo and gun company stocks are going through the roof. It was obamas bright idea to open all the gm plants in china too.

Gordoba.You should seriously consider going back to school and get a clue of whats going on in the world. Maybe by then you will be able to form an intelligent opinion that makes sense instead of consistently repeating some one elses bullshit.

You just argue for the sake of arguing.

Hyroot is dead on right here. The problem with these so called bail outs of American business's is that the Fed takes our taxpayer money to give it as a quid pro quo as payment for political support. This is where the unions have been double screwed because their dues went to get Obama elected and the very business round table he has assembled outsources jobs overseas and the AFL-CIO UAW who now has a 41.5% stake in Chrysler has elected to build cars in Mexico where labor costs are lower. Some deal for the union members huh? Just wait until Obamacare kicks in and see how many more companies stick to their guns re mfg in the USA. Oh yeah let's increase taxes while were at it, print more worthless currency to spur inflation and tell everyone that we won't prioritize cannabis prosecution in those states where MMJ is legal while we're figuring out how to make an 8+ clip illegal. You would think phosphors would be the least of their problems.

Before we throw Gordo out with the bathwater though he points to a link from 2010 http://votesmart.org/public-statement/522858/#.UQS4dme8io9 whereby FSS claims foul in that they are the only US manufacturer that is eligible to claim Made in America - ARRA compliant. FSS went on a campaign to have their US competition shut down that included having their congressman write letters to VP Joe Biden citing unlawful trade practices and violation of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act or ARRA. Their position was that they were the only ones who made an induction lamp that was ARRA compliant and therefore could be qualified as Made in America. This coming from a company that imports their lamps and drivers from China, won't readily admit it and in 1/2 dozen places in these videos of theirs go on to say that their products are made entirely in the USA. The real point is that they never qualify that statement anywhere with 'some parts come from China'. Instead they sic their congressman on the competition by arm twisting VP Biden. After less than a week of investigation the Fed dismissed the charges as they were deemed without merit. Nice try though.

You won't hear any of that in these videos Gordo. Wake up and look at what your paymasters are doing at igrow. Notice any similarities here? Where do you think these igrow guys get their marching orders from? They most certainly don't know shit about plant lighting. But than again, neither do you.

While waivers are available in certain circumstances, none have been granted by the Department of Energy regarding the types of energy efficient lighting products made by Full Spectrum Solutions.

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chazbolin said:

The real point is that they never qualify that statement anywhere with 'some parts come from China'. Instead they sic their congressman on the competition by arm twisting VP Biden. After less than a week of investigation the Fed dismissed the charges as they were deemed without merit.

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All the company owners that took stimulus money and then expanded their business overseas, need to go to jail.