Inda-gro Induction...

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
I've been looking for someone to post up an IBeam grow for sometime. I've never seen one. Perhaps you would consider starting a thread.
 

rikdabrick

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm planning on buying a Pro 420 tomorrow and just FYI I called Inda-GRO today and they have free shipping until the end of the year if you order over the phone. It'll save me $50.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Hiya Rikdabrick! Good choice on the IG purchase. Looking forward to seeing your garden once everything is set up.

FYI prior to placing any phone orders ask them if they have any of their show specials or B stock lights. They discount them if they were used at a show or one comes back damaged from shipping and they have to make it salable again. It might have a minor chip in the paint but other than that they are in perfect working condition.

Thought I'd share DougieZ sweet setup for the Blue Dream @ about 6 weeks from harvest. DZ runs ESC and the 420-Pontoon combos using the Master Sensor Controller as supplemental greenhouse lights which gives him perfect control over how much light the plants receive each day. http://www.inda-gro.com/pdf/Pro-420-PAR-DH.pdf

20131112_071834.jpgblue dream lab results 2013 sept (1).jpg
 

flaxseedoil1000

Well-Known Member
So I am gonna pick a pontoon for my Inda-Gro 420 next week. This is for SOG flower in a 4x4 Secret Jardin.

I veg / mother 18/6 with an IG 200 (no pontoon) in a 4x4 Secret Jardin.

Are there any light related issues to be aware of when moving from veg to flower?

tia

btw

Thinking of using Dyna-Gro, so this would be a Inda-Dyna-Gro grow :)
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
The same phosphors are used in all three wattage sizes so you won't have any plant/lamp/spectrum related issues when you move into flower.

Inda-Dyna-Gro ...I kinda like it!
 

flaxseedoil1000

Well-Known Member
Well I re-found this after I posted my question:

This means an extra 1.5 - 2 hours of flowering every night. With Short Day Plants, once your flowers are initiated, the flower/fruit photoperiod can be increased to 13.5 to 14 hours, to gain at least an additonal 10% in yield and quality from the Flower Initiation aspect alone.
source

Not sure what they mean by 'initiated'. I was hoping to constantly run 13/11 while rotating new groups in every week or two.

Is that gonna be a problem?

tia
 

Loonquawl

Well-Known Member
My timewreck showed flowers right away at 13.5/10.5, but I had to drop to 12/12 on the plushberry. I just started the cheesequakes at 13/11 and they responded quite well. I think it is plant dependent and you would need to experiment accordingly, or just start at 12/12 until pistols show and then change to 13/11.
 

SCARHOLE

Well-Known Member
Seen his guys blog stating some valid flaws in induction lights.

Induction vs. LED Lights:
If Induction Lighting hasn't caught on in 100 years, could there be a reason?
Which is the better lighting alternative, LED lights, or induction? At first glance, induction lighting looks attractive, especially its advertised long life. However, induction lights have most of the same problems as fluorescent lights. LED lights avoid these problems, while offering a comparable lifespan and using significantly less energy.


Induction lighting promises long life, up to 100,000 hours, but that claim is suspect. It is true they have no electrodes to burn out (a common failure point in fluorescent lighting). However, induction lighting is otherwise very similar to fluorescent. It depends on a ballast, and a sealed glass tube containing mercury vapor in a partial vacuum.


Failed ballasts have always been a problem for fluorescent lights, and induction lights require a ballast. Few electronic devices last 100,000 hours (that's 12 years, 24 hours per day). Additionally, that figure applies only to externally ballasted lights. Internally ballasted induction lights (the type most used in standard light fixtures) are typically rated 25,000 hours or less.


Maintaining a vacuum, even a partial one, is problematic. Induction light tubes require a vacuum. If the seal fails, the light fails. Experience with incandescent and fluorescent lights suggests failure is likely to occur before the theoretic 100,000 hours, especially in any light not manufactured to the highest (and most expensive) standards.


The amount of mercury in an induction light is very small; but it is still considered hazardous by the EPA. Special disposal is required. Breakage requires a hazardous materials cleanup, and, in a commercial setting, may shut down that area until clean. And breakage is likely. The thin glass of an induction light tube shatters easily.


LED's contain no mercury, and the EPA has determined they are safe for general disposal. Even if they break, LED lights are solid state, no vacuum, no glass. This makes them inherently tough. The very tiny amounts of toxic chemicals present are all bonded to the base material, sealed with epoxy or other inert material, and that usually inside a protective housing. Short of grinding an LED to powder, and then ingesting it (perhaps as pizza topping? LED tea?), it is hard to imagine how anyone could be exposed in anyway.


Induction lights are less expensive; but their price is stable and unlikely to decrease. LED’s have been steadily decreasing in price for years, and almost certain to continue to do so for the foreseeable future. While induction lights are touted as energy efficient, LED lights use half the energy. Taken altogether, LED lights are simply the better lighting solution for environmentally friendly, energy efficient lighting. There really are perfectly good reasons there isn’t an induction light in every socket.


Contributor: Joel Zenzic
Posted By: Mary Wecker
i think he's right about breakage, a tempered glass shield or wire shield would be nice.

And I have ballast temps are killers.
I read a temp drop in 15 or 20'f. Could extend life drastically.
External Pc fans on a heat sinks mounted to a ballast would be nice..
Do y'all diy cool your ballast? I was just thinking of trying somthin
And where do we get did of old mercury amalgams?
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Hiya Scar!

Inda-Gro's current design is less than 10% THD and a unity power factor. I don't see the benefits to a single external electrode unless he can build a driver that somehow surpasses that.

As to his LED vs EFDL it seems like the authors are caught betwixt and between the technologies. They raise valid points as to strengths and weaknesses but we as growers are taking a side street here. General area lighting for induction or LED is going to have to meet design criteria that is quite a bit different than growers will want from these technologies. Tighter area coverage and phosphors that emit in plant net action spectra would be the most significant differences. His article is not taking indoor artificial plant lighting into consideration when discussing the relative merits of LED or induction.

As to the driver temp, it should be running at ~115F. The interior components are rated for ~200F so the addition of a driver fan is not necessary as the heat sinks keep the internal housing temps ~160F. The surface of the lamp glass should get up to ~200F. If there is too much air circulation over the surface of the lamp glass you WILL get a drop in intensity. Just point one of your fans at the glass when it's running at full output and you'll witness this for yourself. When running a room full of 420's repositioning canopy fans is something to take into consideration to avoid running air over the glass. You'll notice that within 6" of the lamp there is really no discernible increase in ambient temps from the glass. The entire aluminum housing is a big heat sink.

As to the Hg amalgams you should contact your local county hazmat. They should have disposal packets they'll give you. You could also try recycle yards that take fluorescent lamps. They should have a way of taking in Hg.

Happy Thanksgiving all!
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
From my own experience all the t12 magnetic ballasts that where retro fitted with new t8 electronic ballast where working when removed (2010) and installed around 1995!

We have had a couple failures on the new kits already......say what you will but mag ballasts are rock solid for at least a decade.

Idk what indagro uses as a ballast but mine has worked flawlessly so far..and I expect it too go the distance

Cooling an hid bulb aggressively (cool tube) will also lower its lumen output.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
say what you will but mag ballasts are rock solid for at least a decade.
The mag ballasts have been reliable workhorses for as long as I've been growing. I've have had a much higher incidence of HID digital over magnetic ballast failures which I would say the vast majority are due to thermal runaway issues.

Idk what indagro uses as a ballast but mine has worked flawlessly so far..and I expect it too go the distance
Glad to hear you like the light and congrats on the Party Cup finish! Nicely done. And when you say 'the distance' that's 10 years lamp and driver under warranty. I've got gardens going on 4 years continuous now with the original lamps.

IG does an annual Black Friday Special where they offer the Pro-200 for $250.00 and the Pro-420 for $450.00, plus freight with a limit of two per order. You have to phone in to get that deal as the online store charges full price. :clap:
 

SCARHOLE

Well-Known Member
Pic day...




Strawberry Afro auto
so pregnant lol





Nev haze 21 x mml
bottom is flowering faster than the top?





DrGt chemo Iranian x 80s Nl5 haze C.
anything mixed with c5 gets huge!





Drgt c99 x amnesia haze x auto haze
Hit her wih the nycd auto x auto haze cel pollen this week.







Sunset from swerve
Got trics this week 21 days ish, pretty earlY!





Auto nycd x auto haze got up potted today. Supplementing halogen to her
The other is a sunset clone.





Group hug
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
DrGt chemo Iranian x 80s Nl5 haze C.
anything mixed with c5 gets huge!
It looks like all the strains have filled in nicely but with that Iranian cross I would have to agree! Nice dense bud formation. Have you noticed any improvements in tric production?
 

SCARHOLE

Well-Known Member
Hard to tell, so far .
i need to run Pineappple express or Wappa as a comapison
they were super white...
I Did notice it with the nycd x haxe Auto a bit.
But she was hurt wih chems, this new nycd haze auto will be done proper.
The others were topped alot cause I was unsure how big they'd get.
This next round ill make em single cola & sexier...

Wish I could get em darker green though.
trying more N & cheepo hallogen to see if it will do it to the baby auto.
 

flaxseedoil1000

Well-Known Member
IG does an annual Black Friday Special where they offer the Pro-200 for $250.00 and the Pro-420 for $450.00, plus freight with a limit of two per order. You have to phone in to get that deal as the online store charges full price. :clap:
Since I planned on driving by and picking up a pontoon for my 420 next week, thought I would see if that had a BF discount.

Darryl answered, no BF discount on a pontoon, but he did say that existing 420 owners get $100 off a pontoon every day :)

BTW

Told me 13-11 no problem with Indica. He has Sativa growers running 15-9 :grin:

Always great dealing with Inda-GRO, fantasic people there.
 

gachogavacho

New Member
I just received a quote for induction lighting from some company on Alibaba for 500 watt fixtures (5 veg and 25 bloom) for $10,200, shipping is another $500-$600, plus some import fees on my end...about $375 per fixture. I have no idea if these lights will even work (or for how long). Quality from China can be hit or miss. Most everything is sourced in China (and assembled in the US). High risk, high gain???
Hey WaProducer,... another WA producer/processor here as well! What county are you operating out of? So many bans in place, not likely to last. Was hoping to do business in Pierce but the county level ban pushed us out and we even got a bigger facility so no problems ;)

Anyhow, I thought I saw another post that you were looking to operate in 600 square feet. 5 veg and 25 flower lights for that little amount of space seems like quite a bit of overkill don't you think? I might be wrong, I don't know much about induction lighting.
 

CaliWorthington

Well-Known Member
Induction lighting promises long life, up to 100,000 hours, but that claim is suspect. It is true they have no electrodes to burn out (a common failure point in fluorescent lighting). However, induction lighting is otherwise very similar to fluorescent. It depends on a ballast, and a sealed glass tube containing mercury vapor in a partial vacuum.
"but that claim is suspect" is not a fact, and does not support this poorly written paragraph.

Failed ballasts have always been a problem for fluorescent lights, and induction lights require a ballast. Few electronic devices last 100,000 hours (that's 12 years, 24 hours per day). Additionally, that figure applies only to externally ballasted lights. Internally ballasted induction lights (the type most used in standard light fixtures) are typically rated 25,000 hours or less.
Yeah, and? So they use a ballast, OMG!

Maintaining a vacuum, even a partial one, is problematic. Induction light tubes require a vacuum. If the seal fails, the light fails. Experience with incandescent and fluorescent lights suggests failure is likely to occur before the theoretic 100,000 hours, especially in any light not manufactured to the highest (and most expensive) standards.
OK, point about vacuums being a possible weak spot, well taken. However, there is no anecdotal evidence presented here, just experience with off-the-shelf fluorescent. How many owners of EFDL have had a vacuum leak(?), show of hands please.

The amount of mercury in an induction light is very small; but it is still considered hazardous by the EPA. Special disposal is required. Breakage requires a hazardous materials cleanup, and, in a commercial setting, may shut down that area until clean. And breakage is likely. The thin glass of an induction light tube shatters easily.
This is a valid point, though I don't see anyone calling a Hazmat team for a "very small" amount of mercury. How much are we talking here, like the amount in a thermometer? Thermometers break all the time and people don't die from it. Maybe there's more in the lights, I don't know.

Induction lights are less expensive; but their price is stable and unlikely to decrease. LED’s have been steadily decreasing in price for years, and almost certain to continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
This is true, EFDL is an old technology. Therefore, a "new, improved" one won't come out the month after I buy a light.

While induction lights are touted as energy efficient, LED lights use half the energy. Taken altogether, LED lights are simply the better lighting solution for environmentally friendly, energy efficient lighting. There really are perfectly good reasons there isn’t an induction light in every socket.
I didn't realize it was a fact that LED could light the same area as EFDL using half the energy. If so, you got me on this one, but I'm not so sure that's a fact either. I think it's probably closer to 1/3 greater efficiency, not double.

I'm not going to argue that LED will take over soon, that's a given. But LED lights scream at your plants :-P, and are unpleasant to be around without protective eyeglasses. EFDL doesn't have that problem. If you have an automated garden and don't plan to spend much time in there, this is not a problem.

I like the idea of supplementing EFDL with red LED, but I personally wouldn't want LED as the main light source, unless someone else was doing the gardening, and didn't mind the eye strain. LED will be the future though, so the protective eye-wear companies should do well.
 
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