IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

BDOGKush said:

Good to know and thanks again.



Power really isn't a concern, primary concern would be keeping temps down (main reason I'm going LED), next concern is yield and quality. The prices of these A51 lights doesn't make it easier on me, XGS is only $10 more than the RW-150, 2 RW-75 only $15 dollars more than an XGS. At their price range and my budget, I could do any of those options so I'm just concerned on getting the best one. From what I've been told by two owners of these lights, the RW-150 can do everything the XGS can with less power draw and heat but right when I'm about to pull the trigger, I see the owner suggest 2 RW-75s vs a single RW-150. I stated a goal that I'd like to hit with this tent but nobody has really commented on if it was a realistic goal with LEDs in my grow space and I only really know what can be done with an HPS.


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go with the 2 75's/// versatile and the same as the 150 just split in two

This may have been answered already, but quickly is there some sort of conversion chart. Say I want to convert 10k HPS over to all LED, what should I be looking for.

az2000 said:

I don't think Cidly Apollo is a definitive product. Cidly provides various specifications which don't include any mention of spectrum. I also don't think they sell directly to the public. I don't see a "purchase" button on Cidly's website.

Cidly sellers are either the low-cost Alibaba guys who all seem to have their own spectrum. Or, bigger names that import the Cidly with custom spectrum.

I wonder if the retailer you purchased from used a bad spectrum. Did they tell you what it is (colors and ratio)? A reflection of the retailer, not the light per se.

I'm using the following custom spectrum purchased from Alibaba "Thunder Lighting." It's producing good results. But, this isn't something I could have figured out as a newbie. For that reason, I think Cidly Apollo is perilous for a newbie.

Code:

1x IR 730
9x deep red 660
2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
    1x white 2700k (3200-3500k) (avg 3350k)
    2x white 5000k (5500-6500k) (avg 6000k)

I used that in early sprout, currently aggressive veg. There was no leaning. (Credit: This is exactly the ratio of Grow Northern's upgradeable "Rebel" module, although they use Philips and Cidly uses Epistar. My choice of whites were different, making it 900k warmer white.).

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It is a horrible product! I didnt order it from Cidly. I got it as part of my "kit" from hydroponics group! And yes, you can buy direct, but there is no button to purchase. Its all done by email. You go to the place where it says "contact info" and send them a message and they will give you pricing for everything they have on their site and they do sell direct.

Cidly is through Alibaba, which is where Hydroponic's group is getting their LED's. So Hydroponics Group is not using USA LED's, they are using crap and selling it for a lot more money. HG isnt giving you any of the specs on the light, and as a newbie, I didnt know that. The light is bad, bad, bad, bad, to use for growing. All the plants grow to the middle where the cone of light is. And they were doing this within a week of sprouting! Now I have found places like this website and others where people talk openly about growing, and I have come to discover just how bad HG got me.

I'm about to drop some crash on a LED, I'd like to get some feedback before I pull the trigger. Thanks to anyone who can provide their opinion.

I need a LED to veg and flower a 2x2 tent. After a few days of research I've settled down to A51 RW-75 or the Hans Panel 65/80. I'm on a budget of around 250-300ish, so these 2 panels seem to be the best you can get around that price point. (Excluding DiY, which I would be doing but I am in a rush)

So my question I guess is there any other panel out there that I've overlooked? As of right now I'll most likely be pulling the trigger on (1) 75 from A51, I'm just hoping it's enough to flower 1 plant.

Maphyr said:

So my question I guess is there any other panel out there that I've overlooked? As of right now I'll most likely be pulling the trigger on (1) 75 from A51, I'm just hoping it's enough to flower 1 plant.

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Nope, you haven't overlooked any other quality LED lights.
No worries, the RW-75 is powerful enough to flower one plant.
Good luck.

BDOGKush said:

Good to know and thanks again.



Power really isn't a concern, primary concern would be keeping temps down (main reason I'm going LED), next concern is yield and quality. The prices of these A51 lights doesn't make it easier on me, XGS is only $10 more than the RW-150, 2 RW-75 only $15 dollars more than an XGS. At their price range and my budget, I could do any of those options so I'm just concerned on getting the best one. From what I've been told by two owners of these lights, the RW-150 can do everything the XGS can with less power draw and heat but right when I'm about to pull the trigger, I see the owner suggest 2 RW-75s vs a single RW-150. I stated a goal that I'd like to hit with this tent but nobody has really commented on if it was a realistic goal with LEDs in my grow space and I only really know what can be done with an HPS.



http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/how-to-improve-female-male-ratio-of-cannabis-plant.html

http://www.royalqueenseeds.com/content/51-male-and-hermaphrodite-plants

Just the first two links when I did a google search about it, there were a lot more articles than just this about it though.

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Bad Karma said:

It's a well known fact published in several grow bibles.
More red light during germ, and veg, will result in more males, more blue light, during germ, and veg, will get you more females.
It's one of the reasons people use MH, and T5, in their nurseries, for the blue spectrum.
My own finding through the years echo these statements.
I had a much higher female ratio from seed when I used an all 6500k T5, and XGS, compared to my older 3W A51 light.

For example:
6500k T5: 5 out of 5 female
XGS: 4 out of 7 female
3W A51: 2 out of 8 female

(Note: The 3W A51 LED is the best flowering light out of the three, by far.)

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This is wrong. The first link you posted isnt credible its someones inaccurate opinion. The second link states that more reds causes herms, not males. Herms are not males, theyre herms. You can not make a male plant out of a female seed nor vice versa with a male its basic biology. Now whether or not you cam cause female plants to herm is another story. But i have never had this experience. Herms ime come from stress or planting seeds from herms. But you absolutely cannot affect gender outcome of a seed by giving it blue or red light, thats rediculous.

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After reading this and a few other links, they speak much more about optimal conditions and stress. Later it is mentioned about the light, but again that does not show numbers and a study done to prove what is written.
I have experience in grow and germination of seeds, never did I have a light make a factor in the male to female ration, rather environmental conditions played the part, but than again how can one say this if they did not know what seed was male or female before it was germinated.
Not doubting what others believe, but I doubt what many write as being the truth or a solid study. I will stick with my own knowledge and continue growing with what I have learned by experience. I started back in the mid 70's, but really got into it in 1998 indoors.

kmog33 said:

This is wrong. The first link you posted isnt credible its someones inaccurate opinion. The second link states that more reds causes herms, not males. Herms are not males, theyre herms. You can not make a male plant out of a female seed nor vice versa with a male its basic biology. Now whether or not you cam cause female plants to herm is another story. But i have never had this experience. Herms ime come from stress or planting seeds from herms. But you absolutely cannot affect gender outcome of a seed by giving it blue or red light, thats rediculous.

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All I did was post two links from a google search that talks about red light affecting the sex of a plant. Believe it or don't believe it but there is plenty of information out there on the subject and plenty of people who have experienced it.

Here is another opinion on the subject:
http://www.growingmarijuana.com/slow-plant-growth.php

Seems like a pretty common "inaccurate" opinion to me.

Beans are not pre determined sex. Low temps(<78*) and favoring blue light promotes females. Hotter(80*+) and more red promotes males. This is nothing new.

It has to do with what time of years the bean thinks I is. If it is cooler and more blue light represents the spring...meaning the plant had a whole season to grow up, develop, and reproduce. This is because females take time. First they must get to the point of getting pollinated then must survive long enough to make viable beans.

While hotter red signifies summer/fall. A short and less than ideal situation for a young undetermined cannabis plant. So it's reaction is to favor these side. This is it takes less energy and time to be a male plant. They just need to blow their load and die. Plus males begin to flower earlier too, just adding to this effect.

Another link that talks about it

http://www.dutch-headshop.com/extra_info/more-information-about-feminized-seeds.pdf

Greengenes707 said:

Beans are not pre determined sex. Low temps(<78*) and favoring blue light promotes females. Hotter(80*+) and more red promotes males. This is nothing new.

It has to do with what time of years the bean thinks I is. If it is cooler and more blue light represents the spring...meaning the plant had a whole season to grow up, develop, and reproduce. This is because females take time. First they must get to the point of getting pollinated then must survive long enough to make viable beans.

While hotter red signifies summer/fall. A short and less than ideal situation for a young undetermined cannabis plant. So it's reaction is to favor these side. This is it takes less energy and time to be a male plant. They just need to blow their load and die. Plus males begin to flower earlier too, just adding to this effect.

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Thank you for breaking it down like that, I knew it wasn't a bunch of bs.

Greengenes707 said:

Beans are not pre determined sex. Low temps(<78*) and favoring blue light promotes females. Hotter(80*+) and more red promotes males. This is nothing new.

It has to do with what time of years the bean thinks I is. If it is cooler and more blue light represents the spring...meaning the plant had a whole season to grow up, develop, and reproduce. This is because females take time. First they must get to the point of getting pollinated then must survive long enough to make viable beans.

While hotter red signifies summer/fall. A short and less than ideal situation for a young undetermined cannabis plant. So it's reaction is to favor these side. This is it takes less energy and time to be a male plant. They just need to blow their load and die. Plus males begin to flower earlier too, just adding to this effect.

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I usually agree with you on things gg but this is absurd. What are feminized beans then and whats the point. Under those circumstances you could control your environment and use all blue light with regular beans and get 100% females right? I mean im just saying science disagrees here.

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Back on topic of LED lights, I emailed A51 and asked what type of performance I can expect out of their LED panels and received this response, hopefully it helps anyone who is wondering the same:

For a 2.5x2.5 area, I'd pick 2 of the 75s over a single 150, you'll gain a little extra coverage that way.

2 of the 75s, or a single 150 will exceed what a 250w HPS can do, but not quite a 400w.

Regards,
Jeff

I know what I can pull in my space with a 250W HPS so this response was very helpful in helping me know what to expect from these LEDs.

Greengenes707 said:

Beans are not pre determined sex. Low temps(<78*) and favoring blue light promotes females. Hotter(80*+) and more red promotes males. This is nothing new.

It has to do with what time of years the bean thinks I is. If it is cooler and more blue light represents the spring...meaning the plant had a whole season to grow up, develop, and reproduce. This is because females take time. First they must get to the point of getting pollinated then must survive long enough to make viable beans.

While hotter red signifies summer/fall. A short and less than ideal situation for a young undetermined cannabis plant. So it's reaction is to favor these side. This is it takes less energy and time to be a male plant. They just need to blow their load and die. Plus males begin to flower earlier too, just adding to this effect.

Click to expand...

kmog33 said:

I usually agree with you on things gg but this is absurd. What are feminized beans then and whats the point. Under those circumstances you could control your environment and use all blue light with regular beans and get 100% females right? I mean im just saying science disagrees here.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Rollitup mobile app

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I would tend to agree.. if sex is not pre determined then that would indicate you could influence sex merely by conditioning your room and light...

It's a really interesting topic that gets debated pretty fiercely. The more I'm reading about it, the more I'm finding the belief that: Yes seed gender is predetermined, however environmental factors influence the expression.

Thats atleast how Ed Rosenthal and Mel Frank feel, someone posted an Ed Rosenthal article about it on this thread (it doesn't really address spectrums but still relevant about the enviroment influencing the gender of a plant and if sex is predetermined):

http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-growing-techniques/356923-once-all-sex-predetermined.html

It seems to be a common belief that you can increase the chances of female plants by maintaining certain environment factors. Not going to be 100% female because of blue light and cooler temps but can help make the odds a little better than 50/50. I'm not a botanist or an expert grower by any stretch, best thing I can do is listen to the general consensus and roll with it lol especially if breeders like Dutch Passion state that they've come across the same thing in their research.

So it looks like both sides of this debate are somewhat correct.

BDOGKush said:

It's a really interesting topic that gets debated pretty fiercely. The more I'm reading about it, the more I'm finding the belief that: Yes seed gender is predetermined, however environmental factors influence the expression.

Thats atleast how Ed Rosenthal and Mel Frank feel, someone posted an Ed Rosenthal article about it on this thread (it doesn't really address spectrums but still relevant about the enviroment influencing the gender of a plant and if sex is predetermined):

http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-growing-techniques/356923-once-all-sex-predetermined.html

It seems to be a common belief that you can increase the chances of female plants by maintaining certain environment factors. Not going to be 100% female because of blue light and cooler temps but can help make the odds a little better than 50/50. I'm not a botanist or an expert grower by any stretch, best thing I can do is listen to the general consensus and roll with it lol especially if breeders like Dutch Passion state that they've come across the same thing in their research.

So it looks like both sides of this debate are somewhat correct.

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I could believe hermies happening this way.

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PetFlora said:

I think the biggest thing for noobs to learn is that red and blue spectrums are pure BS

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what ?????lol

Each to their own, but I was raised to not believe all that is said and not all that is read, rather research and see what is the truth about something so that I can draw my own conclusion.

So, if I germinate in the dark, what sex am I getting ? Well I have germinated seed in the dark and lots of them and raised them under HPS lamps, yet I would get females and another time a bunch of males.
Just the same I sprouted over a hundred seeds and watched them very closely and would tag them noting their sex (what I thought was female and those male) finish growing them until they revealed their sex to me. I actually had gotten good at determining what was female and male, but that does not mean I can just look at any seedling and tell it's sex. My method involved my grow room factors and the seeds germination time along with it's growth characteristics and notes of it lead me to make my call and tag them. ED uses say pissing on a plant helped it, yet at the time he wrote it he never grew a single plant in his life. Believe what you want, the sky is falling, believe it as it is written.

PetFlora said:

I think the biggest thing for noobs to learn is that red and blue spectrums are pure BS

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Meant to say that buying panels made up of only red and blue diodes is BS

PetFlora said:

Meant to say that buying panels made up of only red and blue diodes is BS

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fair enough...