IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!
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AirAnt
Well-Known Member
Just out of curiosity, how come there aren't any Youtube vids on the RW-75? There's no company channel, no user uploads, just...nothing. Seems kinda weird.
I'm narrowing my search down on purchasing an LED panel and I'm see-sawing between the pricier models and something like:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reflector-300w-Led-Grow-Light-Growth-Flower-Switches-Full-Spectrum-IR-Lamp-Panel-/151186702706?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item23336e0172
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIPAR-400W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-Indoor-Grow-Greenhouse-Hydroponic-Plant-/111391939675?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item19ef7a1c5b
I'm somewhat of a moderately skilled grower, but this will be my first time using LEDs. I know there's emphatic testimony that it's worth it to spend the extra $100-150 on an RW-75 or a Hans 65w but I just wish there were more empirical evidence. You know, like concrete proof so I wouldn't have to second-guess myself after a purchase. I've been researching LEDs for about 10 hours to even be able to ask these questions, lol.
I'm thinking of getting one of the cheaper LEDs now to hold me over until I can get one of the more expensive models and compare them myself but does anyone know of any really convincing threads that does make the comparison that would help sway my decision now?
I'm narrowing my search down on purchasing an LED panel and I'm see-sawing between the pricier models and something like:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reflector-300w-Led-Grow-Light-Growth-Flower-Switches-Full-Spectrum-IR-Lamp-Panel-/151186702706?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item23336e0172
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIPAR-400W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-Indoor-Grow-Greenhouse-Hydroponic-Plant-/111391939675?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item19ef7a1c5b
I'm somewhat of a moderately skilled grower, but this will be my first time using LEDs. I know there's emphatic testimony that it's worth it to spend the extra $100-150 on an RW-75 or a Hans 65w but I just wish there were more empirical evidence. You know, like concrete proof so I wouldn't have to second-guess myself after a purchase. I've been researching LEDs for about 10 hours to even be able to ask these questions, lol.
I'm thinking of getting one of the cheaper LEDs now to hold me over until I can get one of the more expensive models and compare them myself but does anyone know of any really convincing threads that does make the comparison that would help sway my decision now?
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
There is empirical evidence about the A51 or Hans, and not so much with the TopLEd, the 1st one and the Vipar. Diodes with bins are represented with A51/Hans, what more do you need to know?
Icemud, did some videos with his Apogee umol meter, both a TopLED and maybe a vipar too... and they were "eh" in my opinion only. Good, will grow, but with comparison of what's out there, "eh".
AirAnt
Well-Known Member
I just subscribed to Icemuds channel and watched some of those umol tests, actually. I only wish there were more videos just like that, or threads maybe if anyone knows of them.
The one LED outperforming the others was the Intelligent Gro II 270w, but that's a $560 unit. How do I know the $250 Hans 65w (which 2 of would probably be the most ideal for my 2' x 4' grow space) or RW-75 has that much of a respectively high umol reading compared to the cheaper models?
and as far as Diodes with bins goes, isn't that what this model uses? http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIPAR-300W-LED-Grow-Light-5W-Diodes-Series-Full-Spectrum-for-Indoor-Greenhouse-/111380672188?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item19eece2ebc
I might have to go with something second-rate out of monetary concerns at first, because my grow is already started and I need to make a decision in a few days. The rw-75 is just like barely out of my price range unless I scrimp for it and I just haven't been convinced to do that because, like I said, seeing is believing and it's like a Youtube blackout which is strange. My grandma's croquet club has a Youtube channel, you know?
The one LED outperforming the others was the Intelligent Gro II 270w, but that's a $560 unit. How do I know the $250 Hans 65w (which 2 of would probably be the most ideal for my 2' x 4' grow space) or RW-75 has that much of a respectively high umol reading compared to the cheaper models?
and as far as Diodes with bins goes, isn't that what this model uses? http://www.ebay.com/itm/VIPAR-300W-LED-Grow-Light-5W-Diodes-Series-Full-Spectrum-for-Indoor-Greenhouse-/111380672188?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item19eece2ebc
I might have to go with something second-rate out of monetary concerns at first, because my grow is already started and I need to make a decision in a few days. The rw-75 is just like barely out of my price range unless I scrimp for it and I just haven't been convinced to do that because, like I said, seeing is believing and it's like a Youtube blackout which is strange. My grandma's croquet club has a Youtube channel, you know?
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DirtyN0rth
Active Member
I'm very particular and have narrowed down my purchase to these four lights. I'd like to stick to these four unless you have a suggestion that is very similar in terms of price, wattage, coverage area, price, etc.
Pro Grow X5-300
189X-PRO - 290w
Diamond Series XML 350
Magnum Plus
Cost is not really a concern, but it still is a lot of money so I'd like to make the best choice possible. Thanks tons for any advice
Pro Grow X5-300
189X-PRO - 290w
Diamond Series XML 350
Magnum Plus
Cost is not really a concern, but it still is a lot of money so I'd like to make the best choice possible. Thanks tons for any advice
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
Here are some of the things I would do:
Ask every single person who has a A51/Hans thread, form an opinion on the info that will undoubtedly be provided.
IM Eraserhead
Ask Greengenes [he may have done a umol reading
Find diodes being used and consult datasheets [if you don't know how to read the datasheet, theres a thread for that]
Basically, the two you are hedging on, are known quantity. There is actually 3rd party data on the power of the lights, ask Mr Flux or SupraSL about converting datasheet numbers into Par/Umols
The two you do want, are Not a known quantity in most cases. They do NOT supply what bins they use or most times even Manufacturer. They are rarely a known quantity, so there is very little empirical evidence in support of these lights.
Fyi, I am still debating about which to build first, but I am also considering a 2.x4 with 48" height. Eventually I am thinking of running 8 Cree CXA 3070 Cob Led's in a DIY Fixture.
You buy drivers, COB diodes and heatsinks. Wire together for a very simple build. If you can't solder [which takes 5 minutes to learn] there are even options for solderless assembly.
They will push 1.4A's at 37V or so, giving about 50w's. So nearly 400w's for about $500 or so, depending on what you order for your build.
You would be pushing something like 60K+ lumens. Par wattage can be inferred from datasheets as well...
Bad Karma
Well-Known Member
The Diamond Series XML 350 is the only one of those I'd touch, the rest are bunch of stinkers, stay far away from them. As for a suggestion, grab two Area 51 RW-150's, you'll be pulling around the same wattage as the XML, but get better coverage.
AirAnt
Well-Known Member
Thanks a lot for the advice. Writing my posts out made me realize the comparison between LEDs was probably like the difference between American and foreign-made guitars. I go with the American every time because the difference really is tangible to the experienced.Here are some of the things I would do:
Ask every single person who has a A51/Hans thread, form an opinion on the info that will undoubtedly be provided.
IM Eraserhead
Ask Greengenes [he may have done a umol reading
Find diodes being used and consult datasheets [if you don't know how to read the datasheet, theres a thread for that]
Basically, the two you are hedging on, are known quantity. There is actually 3rd party data on the power of the lights, ask Mr Flux or SupraSL about converting datasheet numbers into Par/Umols
The two you do want, are Not a known quantity in most cases. They do NOT supply what bins they use or most times even Manufacturer. They are rarely a known quantity, so there is very little empirical evidence in support of these lights.
Fyi, I am still debating about which to build first, but I am also considering a 2.x4 with 48" height. Eventually I am thinking of running 8 Cree CXA 3070 Cob Led's in a DIY Fixture.
You buy drivers, COB diodes and heatsinks. Wire together for a very simple build. If you can't solder [which takes 5 minutes to learn] there are even options for solderless assembly.
They will push 1.4A's at 37V or so, giving about 50w's. So nearly 400w's for about $500 or so, depending on what you order for your build.
You would be pushing something like 60K+ lumens. Par wattage can be inferred from datasheets as well...
So with that said, I believe I'll go with the rw-75 which is the top of my budget and then maybe get a Hans 80w later on. I gotta believe the fine people of this forum know better than them so I'll go with what they know not with what I'd guess. With such a small space, I want the most efficient light possible and I have 2 pair of T8 WW and CW fluoros to supplement for now.
I'm also looking into the DIY options. I'm a dunce when it comes to mechanical things, but I could assemble the parts and have my dad build the fixtures themselves maybe. I've got to ask him if he's got the capability which he probably does and might go that route. Seems like you can build for 1/10th of the cost especially when looking at the high-end 5w and 10w LEDs or COB.
If low price-to-value were my priority, I would go with TopLED's reflector series. It's LG's facory outlet (not a reseller) with a public support forum, decent warranty. (I would choose reflector because the Mars, without a reflector, seems to just throw more electricity into diffusion rather than focus it efficiently.).
If you want to do something with more white light, you can get a Cidly Apollo with custom spectrum for $150 (free shipping). I can recommend an Alibaba reseller ("Thunder Lighting") and 2-3 custom spectrums that have worked well. I'm running one which is a copy of Grow Northern's "Rebel" spectrum and it's working well.
I'd recommend Area51. But, if budget is most important, I'd do the above (maybe 1 of each for a 2x4 space). When you eventually buy better lights you'd have backups for when (not if) those better lights fail.
GroErr
Well-Known Member
I have those LG reflector panels, they've been reliable and no quality issues to speak of, but after giving them 2 rounds at flowering, they will be used only for vegging, clones, seedlings. They are great at those things, but imo and direct experience, they CAN flower, but both runs produced fluffy buds and no weight. While that may be acceptable for a small personal grow, it seems like a waste of time and money to me and I'm moving my flower room to other technologies, LEDs will be in there but not the LG's. Definitely would not recommend using them for flowering.
AirAnt
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's a really tough decision. Might just watch ebay hoping for a really good deal and kinda ease into it slowly. I guess it'll come down to how much cash I have to throw around after I pay my bills in a few days.
I'm only going to be growing 2-3 plants max, but they're a haze variety and it'd be nice to replace my old T8's I use for veg now. My dad's on vacation so I can't ask if he'd be able to build me something for a few more days. He does electrical wiring for houses that he remodels though, so we might just end up buying a bunch of Cree COBs or the various 5w LEDs that you can get for a dollar now and try to make our own fixtures. I think that would be freakin' cool but it's not something I think I could do (well) myself. I'll have to double-check the components with people on this forum before I actually bought anything.
I do see those models, the TopLEDs, Vipars, and the rebranded E-Shines and such still on sale at some online grow stores for exorbitant sums of $1000 so if I can find one for $100 or so I'd be happy. I probably would be best off going for the most volume of light, what's going to fill the space I have the best now which would be the cheaper 300w or 400w models most likely.
It'd be a no-brainer for the Hans if the thing were $100 cheaper. The look of that thing is just slick as grease.
I'm only going to be growing 2-3 plants max, but they're a haze variety and it'd be nice to replace my old T8's I use for veg now. My dad's on vacation so I can't ask if he'd be able to build me something for a few more days. He does electrical wiring for houses that he remodels though, so we might just end up buying a bunch of Cree COBs or the various 5w LEDs that you can get for a dollar now and try to make our own fixtures. I think that would be freakin' cool but it's not something I think I could do (well) myself. I'll have to double-check the components with people on this forum before I actually bought anything.
I do see those models, the TopLEDs, Vipars, and the rebranded E-Shines and such still on sale at some online grow stores for exorbitant sums of $1000 so if I can find one for $100 or so I'd be happy. I probably would be best off going for the most volume of light, what's going to fill the space I have the best now which would be the cheaper 300w or 400w models most likely.
It'd be a no-brainer for the Hans if the thing were $100 cheaper. The look of that thing is just slick as grease.
vitamin_green_inc
Well-Known Member
What were those spectrums?
HockeyBeard
Well-Known Member
I'm going a slightly different route with the LED lighting and not using them as my primary light, but as a secondary supplementation to a couple EFDL 400W lights wich will cover ~4x4. Now, I'm aware that even though it claims to replace the 1kW HPS, it will never produce the same, even SCROG'd. I'm not under any delusions like that. I believe EFDL can be a very viable light source, but not alone. So, I'd like to hang 2 panels at 45deg on the outer reaches of the area, to attempt to help with penetration. I've seen the Hans do well in a small 2x2, and says it's rated for 2.5x2.5... I was considering putting them on DIY movers to cover the extra 1.5...
So, what light would fill in the gaps left by a full spectrum EFDL bulb, that would compliment that type of design? With LED, do more Watts = more yield? Would I get a huge difference in yield if I were to use an A51 vs a Hans on each side, considering that's approx 300W difference? Logic says yes, but I've heard it go both ways, and I haven't spoken with anyone personally who is able to tell me otherwise...
So, what light would fill in the gaps left by a full spectrum EFDL bulb, that would compliment that type of design? With LED, do more Watts = more yield? Would I get a huge difference in yield if I were to use an A51 vs a Hans on each side, considering that's approx 300W difference? Logic says yes, but I've heard it go both ways, and I haven't spoken with anyone personally who is able to tell me otherwise...
AirAnt
Well-Known Member
Hmm, well it looks like I'm going to try the DIY. Probably just copy the parts of someone else's design
from a message I just got from az2000, it seems the cidly equivalent is:
1x IR 730
9x deep red 660
2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
1x white 2700k (3200-3500k) (avg 3350k)
2x white 5000k (5500-6500k) (avg 6000k)
That's what's going to hold me over while I research DIY options. Not sure if I should do a 'panel' of 5w on individual spectrum bands or COBs with warm/cool white mix yet. Also should probably learn what the relationship between Forward Current and Forward Volatage is, but I've still got a few days.
I can answer that because I just contacted Thunder Lighting (took me awhile to find cause I was looking on alibabi instead of aliexpress) about a Rebel Spectrum Apollo 6. It's 8 Deep Red 660nm, 2 Red 630nm, 2 Blue 460nm, 2 cool white 5700k, and 1 Infrared 725nm.
from a message I just got from az2000, it seems the cidly equivalent is:
1x IR 730
9x deep red 660
2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
1x white 2700k (3200-3500k) (avg 3350k)
2x white 5000k (5500-6500k) (avg 6000k)
That's what's going to hold me over while I research DIY options. Not sure if I should do a 'panel' of 5w on individual spectrum bands or COBs with warm/cool white mix yet. Also should probably learn what the relationship between Forward Current and Forward Volatage is, but I've still got a few days.
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vitamin_green_inc
Well-Known Member
Okay, so you got the Apollo version or the cidli ,sp?, version? The 2nd option seems like it would be best because of the cool and warm lightsHmm, well it looks like I'm going to try the DIY. Probably just copy the parts of someone else's design
I can answer that because I just contacted Thunder Lighting (took me awhile to find cause I was looking on alibabi instead of aliexpress) about a Rebel Spectrum Apollo 6. It's 8 Deep Red 660nm, 2 Red 630nm, 2 Blue 460nm, 2 cool white 5700k, and 1 Infrared 725nm.
from a message I just got from az2000, it seems the cidly equivalent is:
1x IR 730
9x deep red 660
2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
1x white 2700k (3200-3500k) (avg 3350k)
2x white 5000k (5500-6500k) (avg 6000k)
That's what's going to hold me over while I research DIY options. Not sure if I should do a 'panel' of 5w on individual spectrum bands or COBs with warm/cool white mix yet. Also should probably learn what the relationship between Forward Current and Forward Volatage is, but I've still got a few days.
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
AA, here is something else you might consider, especially on a budgetHmm, well it looks like I'm going to try the DIY. Probably just copy the parts of someone else's design
I can answer that because I just contacted Thunder Lighting (took me awhile to find cause I was looking on alibabi instead of aliexpress) about a Rebel Spectrum Apollo 6. It's 8 Deep Red 660nm, 2 Red 630nm, 2 Blue 460nm, 2 cool white 5700k, and 1 Infrared 725nm.
from a message I just got from az2000, it seems the cidly equivalent is:
1x IR 730
9x deep red 660
2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
1x white 2700k (3200-3500k) (avg 3350k)
2x white 5000k (5500-6500k) (avg 6000k)
That's what's going to hold me over while I research DIY options. Not sure if I should do a 'panel' of 5w on individual spectrum bands or COBs with warm/cool white mix yet. Also should probably learn what the relationship between Forward Current and Forward Volatage is, but I've still got a few days.
http://rollitup.org/t/flowering-with-cree-bulbs.656542/
vitamin_green_inc
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I agree, EXCEPT about the budget part. 10-15$ a piece, and he had 10+...I mean, you know what you are getting, a 9 watt Cree bulb for that 10-15 a piece, so 90 watts for 100...
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
Plus a known quantity of quality diodes in this case most have been switched over to Xb-g. I have some of the older 2700k's that were Xt-E's.
The bulbs are $7 online and I have seen them for $6 at the physical store near my house. Comparison wise, I think its fairly inexpensive way when sitting on the fence. Maybe not altogether cheap cheep, but certainly within realm of one of those Vpar lights that are only putting out 150w's max.
vitamin_green_inc
Well-Known Member
Yeah? Please show me that link to the 7 a bulb, I am about to get some for side lighting. These are a perfect replacement for CFLs, and I am going to set up a bunch around the bottom perimeter...no lesser bottoms for me
The Grow Northern Rebel spectrum I ordered is:
Code:
1x IR 730
9x deep red 660
2x blue 450
White avg 5116k
1x white 3350k (3200-3500k) (Rebel uses 2700k)
2x white 6000k (5500-6500k) (Rebel uses 5000k)The other spectrum I mentioned were:
Code:
Hansbrick (not related to Hans panels)
1x IR 730nm
7x deep red 660nm,
3x red 630nm,
2x white 6500k,
2x blue 460nm
Tang
1x IR 720nm
8x deep red 660nm
3x red 630nm
1x white 12000k
2x blue 460nmTo me, I would go higher end with Area 51, Hans, Onyx, Grow Northern, Advanced Diamond. Or, I'd go with factory-direct Chinese stuff like these custom Cidlys, TopLED, bsLED. Everything in between seems like you're paying a fortune for rebranded chinese stuff. Or, it's gimmicks where you're paying for " Spetra Blend-O-Matic (tm)."
Those expensive imports produce good results. But, why support a middle man (and all their secrecy about spectrum/ratio) when you can support people who publish the spectrum you're paying a fortune to buy? (Or, just import directly cheaper models?).
I like trying a few things. It's good to have some supplemental lights around anyway (instead of one monolithic, eggs-in-one-basket fixture.). Seems worthwhile to try some direct import stuff and higher-end.
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