IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

Status
Not open for further replies.

smokkin

Active Member
hi im in nw europe and after some led lights . i was thinking of ufo , apollo or hans for a small area. 2*2*5. ( notbuilt but will build to what ever is best for the light i get). on reading this from http://plantphotonics.com/LED_info.html
[h=3]Table of contents[/h][HR][/HR]
  1. What are Watts?
  2. Leds Explained
  3. Leds are really difficult to manufacture!
  4. Binning
  5. Chinese Leds
  6. Another Way Leds Are Different
  7. Types of Power Suppliers
  8. How and Why Leds Fail
  9. When Leds Die
  10. Who Made Your Leds?
  11. Take the Alibaba Challenge!
  12. Why do all the Led Lights look the same?
  13. There are essentially two types of leds: Indicator Leds and Power Leds
  14. Power Leds
  15. Led Wattage Ratings and Why they are Misleading!

..
.[h=4]1. What Are Watts?[/h]This is very important and is a source of a lot of confusion. Wattage (number of watts) is just how much power a device consumes – that's it! Technically wattage is equal to voltage X current in amps or Watts = Voltage x Amperage also expressed as W = V x A
So for a 100 watt light running on 230 volts mains power we get 100 Watts = 230 Volts x 0.435 Amps
It has NOTHING to do with brightness, just power consumption! Most people reading this will have been looking at various companies selling led grow lights and I am betting you have seen statements like this:

  • "Our 600 watt light consumes only 300 watts of power!"
  • "Our 600 watt light (actual power consumption 300 watts)"

Or harder to spot the description will read:
600 watt led grow light.Then if you look at the technical specs it will say something like:

Power consumption:
  • 230 Volts 1.3 Amps
  • 120 Volts 2.5 Amps
If you use the formula above (Watts = Volts x Amps) you see that
230 Volts x 1.3 Amps = 299 watts or
120 Volts x 2.5 Amps = 300 watts (same thing)
So again the light that is advertised as a 600 watt light is actually only 300 watts! This is not just misleading, it is an outright lie! It is not a 600 watt light, it is a 300 watt light. However even the 300 watts rating is usually misleading. This is the amount of power the whole light consumes, not the amount of power the leds consume. So what if anything is the difference? Well quite a bit! The light doesn't just contain leds, it contains a power supply as well. Just as a light source such as leds has an efficiency factor, so do power supplies. The very best, high grade Switching power supplies are over 90% efficient whereas the cheapest magnetic ones are only about 50% efficient. This means that out of the 300 watts the light consumes the leds are actually getting between 270 watts and 150 watts – NOT 300 watts!
Some companies use a different method of calculating a power rating. They multiply the number of leds by the wattage class of the leds. So for example if the light has 100 3 watt class (notice I am saying '3 watt class leds' not just '3 watt leds') they will them advertise it as a 300 watt light. This is also misleading as the actual power of the leds would be about 175 watts! To find out why read the 'Led Power Ratings Explained' section.
At Plant Photonics we rate our lights by the amount of power the leds consume. It may make our lights look less powerful than our competitor's lights, but it is the most accurate and honest way to rate them. We also only use the most efficient Switched Mode power supplies to ensure the lowest possible electricity bills for our customers.
The problem is that we are conditioned to associate watts and brightness by a lifetime of dealing with incandescent lights. We all knew that a 100 watt bulb was a lot brighter than a 60 watt bulb. We also knew that a cheap 100 watt bulb was as bright as an expensive one, it just probably wouldn't last as long! That was because the technology in all incandescent bulbs was the same; a tungsten wire in a glass bulb filled with nitrogen. It was also a very mature technology (over 100 years old) so the best way to make them had been worked out long ago and was not longer protected by patent, so everyone made them the same way. However when you start looking at different technologies for producing light such as fluorescent, Hight intensity Discharge (HID) lamps such as Metal Halide (MH) and High Pressure Sodium (HPS) and LED you find that the same wattage of each type of lamp produces a totally different amount of light. So why is this so? Its because there is another factor to consider which is EFFICIENCY. Efficiency is a measure of how much of the power you put in gets turned into light and how much gets wasted, usually as heat. You could put it like this:
Light Output = Wattage x Efficiency
Incandescent lights had a very low efficiency, they produced very little light for the power and produced a lot of heat. This is why we have all been forced to replace them with compact fluorescent lights (CFL), which are 3 to 5 times as efficient. That is why a 20 watt CFL is a replacement for a 100 watt incandescent.
Unlike the old incandescent lights, led is a new, complex and rapidly evolving technology which is very hard to produce to a high and consistent quality. It is also covered by thousands of patents so the best designs and manufacturing techniques can only be used by the patent holders and the companies they licence.
This is the reason two led lights of the same wattage can produce totally different amounts of light even thought they consume the same wattage – top quality leds are very efficient, producing lots of light and very little heat; whereas poor quality leds are not very efficient, producing little light and a lot of heat.
back to table of contents[h=4]2. Leds Explained[/h]Leds are different from any other light source. They are solid state devices which work at a sub-atomic level. A detailed explanation of how they work is beyond the scope of this website and really isn't that important. For an in depth explanation read this excellent article at Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led
back to table of contents[h=4]3. Leds are really difficult to manufacture![/h]Producing them requires growing a thin layer of crystal on a substrate (supporting layer) of synthetic sapphire or silicon carbide. The process has to be incredibly tightly controlled across a whole range of factors, in fact a lot of the steady increases in led efficiency/brightness come not from new advances in technology but from improved quality control in manufacturing. Other increases have come from modifying the structure of the led layer to help photons which get created but then are trapped within the structure of the led layer. This is actually nano engineering and is at the very cutting edge of science. This is why there is such a huge difference between leds manufactured by someone like Cree or Philips Lumileds and some factory in China which has bought some equipment and is churning out cheap leds!
Some more information on the challenges of growing the leds can be found here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitaxy
After the wafer is coated it is cut into thousands of tiny chips. To give you an idea just how difficult to control the manufacturing process is, each of these tiny chips will have slightly different properties, that is the voltage requirement, wavelength and brightness will all be slightly different for each chip!
back to table of contents[h=4]4. Binning[/h]These chips are then individually tested by machine and sorted into 'Bins' according to their properties. Understanding this is quite important, especially if you plan on building your own light as all leds are not created equal; for example the brightness of the same make and model of led can vary by over 100% depending on the bin designation and the voltage required can also vary by up to 50%. This means that the leds from best voltage/brightness bin put out twice the light for 2/3 the power of leds from the worst bin. So if you see some bargain price leds from a good manufacturer on a website, make sure you know what the bin code is before you buy – they may not turn out to be such a bargain after all! All quality led manufacturers have the bin codes listed on their website. An example document for the Cree XP-E family of leds can be found here:http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP_B&L.pdf
*Plant Photonics only uses leds from the brightest and lowest forward voltage (most efficient) bins in all our lights.
back to table of contents[h=4]5. Chinese Leds[/h]As far as I know all led grow lights currently available (except those made by Plant Photonics) are made using Chinese leds. If giant companies such as Cree and Philips Lumileds which pioneered the development of lighting class leds have such difficulty producing quality leds consistently, can you image what sort of quality some company in China with no experience of led manufacture produces? I have purchased samples from over a dozen Chinese manufacturers and tested them. I found the following:
  • All were poor quality.
  • None came anywhere near their rated/advertised brightness or efficiency.
  • They gave only 33% to 50% of the light of a quality led while drawing up to double the power.
  • Some didn't work at all.
  • Some blew after a short time, some failed after weeks or months.
  • There was a huge range of wavelengths, brightnesses and voltage requirements in the same batch from the same manufacturer.
This shows a complete lack of binning and quality control. Many were fraudulently labeled as top quality brands such as Lumileds or Cree.
I think one thing says it all about Chinese leds – the Beijing Olympics was a hugely important event for China. Much of the lighting was done with leds. No Chinese leds were used at all, the contracts went to Cree and Philips Lumileds! Like with everything else the Chinese are exploiting the popularity and high price of quality leds by producing counterfeit copies of top brands. Please see the 'How to tell who really made your leds' section for information on how to identify fake leds. There are several discussions on counterfeit Chinese leds here:http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forum.php
*Plant Photonics uses only leds and chips from the top manufacturers such as Cree, Philips Lumileds, Bridgelux and Ledenjin in our lights. We DO NOT and NEVER WILL use any Chinese leds.
back to table of contents[h=4]6. Another Way Leds Are Different[/h]Most types of lighting are what are know as 'linear devices' that is if you increase the voltage by say 10%, the current they draw will increase by 10% and the brightness will increase by roughly 10% as well. Leds are different – they are non-linear devices. A small increase in voltage causes a large increase in current, so a 10% increase in voltage may cause a 50% increase in current and goodbye led!
This diagram is from the Cree XP-E datasheet. You can see how quickly the current goes up as the voltage is increased. The led lights at 1.8 volts, reaches 350mA at about 2.1 volts and full power (700mA) at 2.3 volts. Increase the voltage to 2.5 volts and the led will blow! This is why it is important to use current limited power supplies (see Types of Power Supplies, below), which monitor the current going through the leds and adjusts the voltage to keep the current at the right level.
back to table of contents[h=4]7. Types of Power Supplies[/h]There are 3 basic types of power supplies which are used to power led lights. Only one of them is safe!
1. Current regulated power supplies: These are the correct type to use with leds. The current is set to the correct value, for example 700mA for 3 watt leds, and the power supply then adjusts the voltage to maintain this current exactly. If a led shorts out the power supply will instantly adjust to compensate – protecting the remaining leds.
2. Voltage regulated power supplies: These can be used but are not a good idea. These put out a constant voltage and are usually used with a resistor to match/lower the output of the power supply to the correct voltage for the leds. There are two problems with using this type of power supply. Firstly if a led fails the power supply does not compensate and the rest of the leds may blow. Secondly the voltage the leds need CHANGES over the life of the led! During the first 200 to 300 hours the leds undergo a process known as burn-in, and the voltage required to run them DECREASES by about 10%. This means that while the leds may draw the correct current when the light is built, over the next few weeks the current will slowly increase and the leds will either fail or have their lifespan severely cut!
3. Non regulated power supplies: Unfortunately these are used a lot in led lights. These can be an old fashioned magnetic ballast (transformer) or most often just a device (a rectifier and a capacitor) to change normal mains AC voltage to DC. This is why led lights usually come in certain multiples of leds – that number of leds draws 110V or 220V so they can be run directly from the mains. Unfortunately as well as having the same problems as voltage regulated power supplies, they have no protection against voltage spikes or fluctuations in the mains voltage.
*Plant Photonics uses top quality current regulated power supplies with full input and output protection in all its lights.
back to table of contents[h=4]8. How and Why Leds Fail[/h]Generally leds don't really fail the way an incandescent light bulb does. Instead of suddenly blowing, they slowly fade in brightness over a very long period. The usual method or rating system used to define the life span of leds is L75 (the most common) or L50 given in hours. This is the amount of time before the light output of the led drops to 75% or 50% of the original. Quality leds have a L75 of at least 50,000 to 70,000 hours. That's 16 years at 12 hours a day! However the lifespan will be shortened greatly if the led is not cooled enough. Good cooling is essential to get the maximum life from leds. Heat is the biggest enemy of leds!
*This is why Plant Photonics lights are designed to use the whole casing as a massive heat sink, and why we spread the leds over a large area rather than concentrating them into a small area like other manufacturers do. The leds in our lights run far cooler than those in any other light in the world.
back to table of contents[h=4]9. When Leds Die[/h]When leds do blow they can either blow 'open' or 'closed' (also known as 'slagging'). If they blow 'open' no electricity can pass through them and as leds are usually connected in a long 'string' all the leds in that string go out. If they blow 'closed' they pass electricity perfectly, so the rest of the string stays lit - which can be bad news! Normally each led absorbs some of the voltage going through it, usually 2.4V to 3.7V per led. When they blow closed they don't absorb any voltage, which means the voltage to each of the other leds increases. As mentioned above, a small increase in voltage means a big increase in current through the remaining leds. If the light has a current regulated power supply it will detect the increased current flow and automatically adjust its output to protect the rest of the leds. If the light doesn't have a current regulated power supply (and as far as I know none of them do) it will often cause all the other leds in the string to blow like a string of firecrackers! Even if the remaining leds dont fail straight away, the increased current will greatly reduce the lifespan of the remaining leds, usually causing them to fail in a few days or weeks.
*This is why Plant Photonics uses top quality current regulated power supplies with full input and output protection in all its lights.
back to table of contents[h=4]10. Who Made Your Leds?[/h]It is increasingly common to see led grow lights advertised as being made with leds from a top manufacturer, usually Cree or Bridgelux. This is because by now most people are aware of the poor quality of Chinese leds. Unfortunately none of them really do! It should be easy to look at a photo of the leds and identify who really made them. Unfortunately in reality it isn't that easy due to the fact that all the top manufacturers don't just sell complete leds, they also sell the chips to other companies. These companies buy the chips and package them into their own housings, so a led may have a genuine Cree chip and perform just as well as a led bought directly from Cree but look completely different from a distance. So how can you tell? Well the key is not to look at the led from a distance, but to get up close and look at the chip itself.
If you look closely you will see a pattern of very fine gold lines on the surface of the chip with 1 to 4 very fine wires attached to it. This is called the current spreader or voltage spreader. It spreads the electrical charge as evenly as possible over the whole surface of the chip to maximise light output. If you just attach the wire carrying the electricity to a single point or small area of the chip, only that bit will give off light, greatly reducing the brightness. A general rule is that if this pattern is a simple X or * shape and or only covers part of the chip it is a Chinese led! Good quality leds have a complex pattern like those shown below. Even better, each manufacturer has its own design for these and they are as distinctive as a fingerprint, allowing you to identify who the manufacturer really is! If you buy a led grow light from a company who claims they are using top quality leds and in reality they are Chinese leds (and they all are), demand your money back or depending how you paid, contact your credit card company or Paypal and stop the payment!
back to table of contents[h=4]11. Take the Alibaba Challenge![/h]The biggest wholesale website for Chinese goods is Alibaba www.alibaba.com. Just type in the words 'led grow light' into their search and you will be quite surprised at what you find. I have just done so and the search returned a staggering 103863 results! You know those lights that claim to be made by a company in California or Amsterdam? Or all the ones who claim to use Cree/Bridgelux etc leds? You know the ones who claim to have done so much research to produce their 'unique' product? I guarantee that if you look hard enough on Alibaba you will find them; they are ALL made in China with Chinese leds! A good tip is to look at the pattern of blue or white leds on the light you are thinking of buying and then look for the same pattern on Alibaba.
back to table of contents[h=4]12. Why Do All the Led Lights Look the Same?[/h]Here's a little secret, none of the other led grow lights on the market started out as grow lights! The first on the market was the famous (or infamous) UFO light. This was actually a red stop light with some blue leds added in. The case is just a compact fluorescent light (CFL) fixture. They usually had no power supply, just a rectifier and capacitor to change mains AC to DC. The newer and more powerful lights on the market today are actually based on 120 watt led street lights, once again placed in fluorescent light fixtures! That why they all come in multiples of the basic wattage, and if you look closely at the photos of the leds in the larger lights you can see they are made of several smaller units placed side by side. That's because no-one makes 600 watt street lights! There is one other problem with this approach, many of the circuit boards were actually designed for 1 watt leds. Although they can handle the power demands of the 3 watt leds (just) most grow lights use, the heat sink wasn't designed to handle the extra heat, so the leds run very hot. This is one of the reasons for the large number (up to 10!) noisy fans these lights use.
back to table of contents[h=4]13. There Are Essentially Two Types of Leds: Indicator Leds and Power Leds.[/h]Indicator leds are the small plastic (actually resin) leds usually used as indicators such as a 'power on' indicator. These are now made in quite powerful versions, some with up to 4 chips mounted in the casing, it is even possible to buy led grow lights made using this type of led. Unfortunately they are NOT suitable for this type of use. The actual light output is very low compared to power leds and they suffer from a major problem – heat. The epoxy they are encapsulated in is a very effective thermal insulator and completely surrounds the chips. If run at a fairly low power this is not a problem, but when run at maximum the heat is sufficient to cause the led chips to deteriorate quite rapidly, making the output drop of to useless levels. Lights made with these leds are essentially expensive toys only suitable for growing a (very) small house plant for a child's science project.
back to table of contents[h=4]14. Power Leds[/h]These are also known as lighting class leds. They range in power from 1 watt to around 100 watts, although anything over 10 watts are usually multiple smaller chips mounted in a single large package. The power led was first produced by Philips Lumileds in 1999 when they brought out the first led capable of running at a continuous power of 1 watt. Currently most grow lights are using 3 watt leds for two reasons: 1) They now offer the best price performance ratio 2) People have now wised up to the fact that leds are not magic and you still need a significant amount of power to successfully grow and flower plants. You just fit that many 1 watt leds into a reasonable sized light!
back to table of contents[h=4]15. Led Wattage Ratings and Why They are Misleading![/h]You have all seen lights with 1 watt and 3 watt leds. You have also seen lots of adds for lights which contain 100 x 3 watt leds and claim to be 300 watt lights. Pretty straight forward yes? Well actually it isn't! Not only do leds not really draw the power you would think they do from their mane/rating, different coloured leds with the same rating and from the same manufacturer actually draw different amounts of power. So why are they called 3 watt (or whatever, its the same for all power ratings) if they really aren't? If you have read the earlier section 'Another Way Leds are Different' you know that leds need to be driven to a certain current level, not a certain voltage level like other lighting devices. Imagine what it would be like if different led manufacturers all produced leds with different current requirements, if for example Cree made leds that required 600mA, Philips Lumileds 700mA, Bridgelux mA750 etc. Power supply companies would have to make power supplies for each of these ratings and you wouldn't be able to mix leds from different companies in your product. It would not only be a nightmare to work with them, it would greatly increase the price of the power supplies as each would be sold in much smaller quantities.
So the manufacturers got together and created standardised power levels of 1, 3, 5 etc. watts. When they created these standards, it is quite likely that the name of each rating was pretty accurate and a 3 watt led really did consume around 3 watts of power, however since then the efficiency of leds has increased dramatically and the voltage required to drive the led to 700mA has dropped. Today the average 3 watt led actually consumes about 2.1 watts. Now remember I said different colours consume different amounts of power? The reason is that the different colours use different materials and require different voltages. I will just cover blue, red and white here, the following link to Wikipedia gives the full range of colours, voltages and materials.
Note - the value they give for red is a little on the low side, the value I use is a bit more realistic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led#Colors_and_materials
  • Red – 2.4 volts so actual wattage at 700mA is 2.4 volts x 0.7 watts = 1.68 watts
  • Blue/Royal blue – 3.4 volts so actual wattage at 700mA is 3.4 volts x 0.7 watts = 2.38 watts
  • White - 3.4 volts so actual wattage at 700mA is 3.4 volts x 0.7 watts = 2.38 watts
The reason the figures for Blue/Royal Blue and White are the same is that a white led is actually a blue led which has been coated with a material called a down-shift phosphor. This absorbs the short wavelength blue light and 'down-shifts' it and emits a mix of longer wavelengths (different coloured light) to produce white light.
Back to our example of the '300 watt grow light' with 100 x 3 watt leds. Assuming it has 80 red and 20 blue leds (an average mix) you have:
  • 80 red leds x 1.68 watts = 134.4 watts
  • 20 blue leds x 2.38 watts = 47.6 watts
  • Total 134.4 + 47.6 watts = 182 watts
There is a big difference between the 300 watts quoted in the add and the real figure of 182 watts, is is only 60% of the power you think you are getting (and paying for)!*Plant Photonics lights are rated on the actual power consumption of the leds. Any other method is misleading and fraudulent.
iwas thinking a hans and get 2-4 cfls with the plan to change them to led side lights. i sent hans off a email to find out where his 56watts came from and what power supply he uses and if needed can his panel be repaired. waiting on response.
if any1 has 2 cent worth on it. i only want to buy once and not rubbish. i am thinking of the 1 from plantphotonics but its a bit pricy 199 sterling +36 postal. that would be my limit. any1 tried them. cheers for any input.
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member

  • the hans 56w led?
    hi im on about getting 1 or 2. if leds are ran around 60%, is the hans ran at that too or is it ran at 60% 56watts. all i can see is its 56watts. not where it came from. i dont want to buy something with a short life. if it broken can leds be replaced it home .cheers for any input.​
Hans panels are pretty well regarded here as far as small panels go. IIRC it has lots of 630nm red but no 660nm red whatsoever, however there are threads which show this doesnt stop the panel from being pretty sweet anyway.

As with any well made LED (so not many i guess) the service life is generally very long (much longer than HID/CFL type bulbs). Drivers can go out, but these can be replaced at home.

I would imagine the hans panel has some kind of warranty too.

As for wattage, the 56watt will be actual draw for the hans panel (It is in a different niche from chinese-type panels so dont take this as a general rule (the hans is marketed as a "quality" panel, so its expensive for what it is but the figures and so on will be right at least)

Here is a grow with the hans panel which will help you more than what i have said. https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/571674-hans-panel-56w-triband-led.html

The search function has a lot of answers!!

Dont get confused with the other light he's trialing it against.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member

  • Hans panels are pretty well regarded here as far as small panels go. IIRC it has lots of 630nm red but no 660nm red whatsoever, however there are threads which show this doesnt stop the panel from being pretty sweet anyway.​


Actually The Hans led panel has two deep red 660nm philips lumiled rebel emitters and yes a shit load of cree xp-e red 630nm also :) I would hold off on it's purchase as he's upgrading the cree xp-e 630nm to cree xt-e 630nm soon. It will basically be an all cree xt-e(blue/red) panel with the two 660nm rebels, and for the price it blows away a blackstar 240w(130-140w) with 65watts........

The leds are driven at 700ma 026.jpg and will hold up for years if they don't fail within the first couple hundred hours(faulty).......happy shopping
 

multipass

Active Member
Actually The Hans led panel has two deep red 660nm philips lumiled rebel emitters and yes a shit load of cree xp-e red 630nm also :) I would hold off on it's purchase as he's upgrading the cree xp-e 630nm to cree xt-e 630nm soon. It will basically be an all cree xt-e(blue/red) panel with the two 660nm rebels, and for the price it is blows away a blackstar 240w(130-140w) with 65watts........

The leds are driven at 700ma View attachment 2588006 and will hold up for years if they don't fail within the first couple hundred hours(faulty).......happy shopping
uh oh.. i just bought 2 of them last week. o well :[
 

multipass

Active Member
Still better than my version:P.........so I expect great things from your grows...journal??????
Oh ha... yeah i'm sure I wont be disappointed.. as your journal was very big factor in my purchase.

--------------------

as far as journal -- probably will set it up soon once the lights arrive, if there is any interest.

current grow is 300w hps flower / 200w mh veg.
perpetual grow with 6 plants, 3 veg 3 flower (staying legal in CO :) ), basically throw a plant in the flower tent every 25 days.. and take a new cutting

new setup is:
Flower: 2x Hans panels 56w covering 2x4 of my 4x4 tent.
Veg: 3x 30w Warm White LED Flood lights spread out in ym 4x4 tent

So basically going from 500w to 200w total.. and I'm very excited.. should be able to run this year round with no AC.. etc.

=D
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
I would definitely be interested in your grow or at least some pics of the newer/ improved version of the Hans Panel.......I know that it will have Cree xt-e for the blue(460nm) and he added a better MCPCB/better fan(?) design to increase the lm/per watt of the cree's(the stage switch should be different as well/not sure cause I haven't seen it)........It should be awesome, so I want pics!!!!!!!!!!!ha
 

FranJan

Well-Known Member
Hello, I'm going build my own led light array (basically this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2iMFPiltf0 but with 3-5 lights) and I'm wondering if I should go with/how many:

A: 6W 2xred 660nm 1xblue 445nm led light http://www.ebay.com/itm/251233341279
B: 12W LED Bulbs Lamp Spot Light Day White http://www.ebay.com/itm/130784864789
C: 3Red 2Blue 10W LED www.ebay.com/itm/330849705937
D: 10watt red blue http://www.ebay.com/itm/330849705937
E: Another

growing in a 4x4x8 box.
Hello O, you could probably get away vegging some plants with a setup like you're talking about but come flower time you're going to need more lights and better diodes to produce any buds with any density, especially in a 4x4. Have you asked any of the dealers for any spectral info/data, or are you just going to take their word that they work, or that they even know what they're talking about? You'll probably be disappointed in the end if you don't find out IMO. Good Luck!
 

sugarsweet

Active Member
Actually The Hans led panel has two deep red 660nm philips lumiled rebel emitters and yes a shit load of cree xp-e red 630nm also :) I would hold off on it's purchase as he's upgrading the cree xp-e 630nm to cree xt-e 630nm soon. It will basically be an all cree xt-e(blue/red) panel with the two 660nm rebels, and for the price it blows away a blackstar 240w(130-140w) with 65watts........
I am starting to research my "stealth-like" grow and I came across the Hans panel and, subsequently, your comparison from last year. I was JUST about to purchase 2 of them, but glad I found this thread and that little gem up there about holding off. I suppose I should sign up for his updates to find out when this upgraded system will be available. I have a bit of time before I'll have my permanent space.

I'll be trying to use 1 panel for veg and 1 for flowering and come up with a cycle where I can start 1 or 2 plants and move them into the flowering "box" so I can get to an easy-to-manage continuous harvest. It will be my first attempt at growing and I'm looking forward to getting rolling.

Anyway, thanks for your initial stuff about the Hans panel (even though I didn't read ALL of it yet) and especially this recent addition!
 

dochickory

Well-Known Member
I am setting up a grow cab in the double bunk space of a 32' travel trailer, hoping to use aeroponics with a nutrient reservoir that can be adjusted, high pressure pump submerged for misting supply line. The space is 30"wide 72" long 72' tall, with the tote or tub at about 24" wide and 40" long at 16" deep. With minimal remodeling I can cut a rectangle hole in the bunk platform and hang the top edge of the tote at the top bunk height, this will give about 31" to the ceiling for light panel and plant height. The tote would hang down below about 16" allowing for fittings, lines, valves etc. I would like to plan this (1) unit so as to be able to connect more of the same in series using quick connects for by-pass function in the mist pressure line and the nutrient return line back to the reservoir for filtering and nutrient/ph adjustment. I'm hoping to size this for a corresponding light panel for each "tote", once again being able to expand more of the same in series above each added tote. One question is what size led panel would be best suited planning on 3-4 plants short variety maybe Afghannies or such I've seen light panels 12"x 12", 12" x 15" at about 225 leds. Just learning about output value ratings etc. Also been reading about quality of diodes, I had no idea, thanks good info any help or comments for this ole guy..will be appreciated, I just wanna grow 3-4 super healthy, happy good looking sticky plants, I will have a glass viewing window into the always needing more light bathroom. I haven't grown any cannabis since the 70's Here I grow!
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
I am starting to research my "stealth-like" grow and I came across the Hans panel and, subsequently, your comparison from last year. I was JUST about to purchase 2 of them, but glad I found this thread and that little gem up there about holding off. I suppose I should sign up for his updates to find out when this upgraded system will be available. I have a bit of time before I'll have my permanent space.

I'll be trying to use 1 panel for veg and 1 for flowering and come up with a cycle where I can start 1 or 2 plants and move them into the flowering "box" so I can get to an easy-to-manage continuous harvest. It will be my first attempt at growing and I'm looking forward to getting rolling.

Anyway, thanks for your initial stuff about the Hans panel (even though I didn't read ALL of it yet) and especially this recent addition!
If i was trying to do perpetual with only 100 watts i would do it like this:

Both panels in your "flower chamber" constantly pushing max output

always run 12/12

Start new plants 12/12 from seed around your currently flowering ones.
 

sugarsweet

Active Member
If i was trying to do perpetual with only 100 watts i would do it like this:

Both panels in your "flower chamber" constantly pushing max output

always run 12/12

Start new plants 12/12 from seed around your currently flowering ones.
You can do that? It's been so long since I originally started thinking of growing, the "best" theory I cam up with was to start with seed -> germinate -> veg 1-2 weeks -> flower on 12/12 until ready.

I also have to keep my number of plants low due to high paranoia from the spousal unit. I was thinking I would start one, then a couple of weeks later start another one and (hopefully) move #1 into flower mode, repeat. IF I could get from seed to harvest in 12 weeks, that should give me 6 plants going at a time, which is just within her tolerance level.

Thanks for the new thought!
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
Theres absolutely no way you'll be able to keep 6 going at once with 100 watts.

12/12 from seed is a thing. :)

So with this way you'd start a couple, then when they are say, 40 days old, you start another two. They stay in their small pots for 20 days or so before being up-potted. This is when things start to get a bit tight. however by now your first two are 60 days old and only have another couple weeks hopefully.

Once they finish, rinse and repeat (or dont rinse, as it happens :P)

edit: and to give you an idea of how not-crazy i am - alot of people here would sigh at the idea of doing more than a single plant with two hans panels.
 

sugarsweet

Active Member
Interesting. I've been looking at Hans' different tests he did while crafting his panel and in later builds he has 20+ plants going in his with 2 panels. Now, they are all only about 2 feet tall and a single "candle" (he calls them that) and on some he does a kind of quasi-scrog thing by bending the tips down. I was thinking something like that and/or topping to keep the height down. What I will probably do is start another thread asking for advice once I get the panels and ready to grow.

I guess I'm not sure what I'm going to be able to produce until I'm going. I need to get this up and running by the end of the year, because I'm pretty sure my source is going to be drying up.
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
Huh? Are you sure? I think you might have misunderstood or a photo might be mislabelled. Just knowing the dimensions of a hans panel versus the amount of pot size needed for a 2 foot tall plant i cant see how that could be right.

Are you sure it wasnt a photo of many seedlings or very young plants, maybe?
 

sugarsweet

Active Member
Huh? Are you sure? I think you might have misunderstood or a photo might be mislabelled. Just knowing the dimensions of a hans panel versus the amount of pot size needed for a 2 foot tall plant i cant see how that could be right.

Are you sure it wasnt a photo of many seedlings or very young plants, maybe?
Most definitely were small. He starts with clones (not something I'll be doing in the beginning) and he moves them to flower after a couple of weeks in veg. But even after, he has a LOT of plants in the grow stage with 2 panels, he just keeps them small.

Here's a pic from his homepage a week or so before he plucked 'em:

P1000930kl.jpg

He also keeps them all in one soil container, so that may be where I run into issues. I'd PREFER to keep them in separate pots, but with his maximum growing area at 20"x24" per panel, I'm going to have a hard time with six pots, I think.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Yes Hans does the "soma" style grow beds/pots but I wouldn't do it that way...........Root crowding/ correcting a specific plant's deficiencies are big issues to consider with that style and most of the laws on growing MJ illegally go by plant #'s specifically(includes seeds/seedlings and clones in my state!!!) something to consider ..... Also would go with low odor strains (northern lights / jack crosses) but that isn't always the case with these unstable (fem)hybrids.

good luck grower
 

SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
Oh, okay. I understand more your earlier post now. Hes doing sea of green from clone - Hes probably practiced with that exact pheno and conditions many times. i.e., what you see is not "typical" but more a product of dedication and time (conjecture but still).

Personally i would never have multiple plants in same pot. Again, it works for him though i guess.

Each of those clones is essentially growing a single "branch" of a weed plant. a normal plant is a lot different from doing SOG.

SOG requires you to raise a mother plant of the genetics you want (a long process of trial in itself normally) and keep it alive perpetually to supply you with cuttings. So for a small, low light setup, its not really practical.

Additionally, the investment in time will only produce a reasonable increase in yield compared to the amount of effort.

edit: psuagro beat me to the draw :D
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
Yes Hans does the "soma" style grow beds/pots but I wouldn't do it that way...........Root crowding/ correcting a specific plant's deficiencies are big issues to consider with that style and most of the laws on growing MJ illegally go by plant #'s specifically(includes seeds/seedlings and clones in my state!!!) something to consider ..... Also would go with low odor strains (northern lights / jack crosses) but that isn't always the case with these unstable (fem)hybrids.

good luck grower
Actually soma style works very well, no root crowding, reds, etc . The roots can go all the way across the bed. The roots sort help each other. I would pull 6 sold off a 2x2 with indica strains no prob. The only draw back is cleaning out the bed afterwards. If you live in an apartment you will stop doing some beds for that reason. If I were to.do it again. I wouldn't do the wood box or rubbermaids, hydroton and pvc. I would just big ass giant fabric pots .
 

sugarsweet

Active Member
Thanks, guys. I will definitely not be doing a clone/mother system. That's a little too advanced for a guy who hasn't grown ANY yet :) I've also already ruled out the single container method (woo, got that one right!)

However, in theory I should be able to start from seed and force smaller plants with cutting and/or SoG techniques? Should I start a new thread for this instead of polluting the LED system one?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top