If veg NPK is 3-1-2 then wtf are most nutes no where near?

I've been getting some of the most awesome results period from using a 10-10-10 liquid nute + micros mix throughout flowering. The funny thing is I went to grab a bottle (like 5$ for 32oz bottle) and they had it on clearance for 87 cents a bottle. I snagged what they had on shelves and a whole freaking case for like 28 bucks and some change. I have enough to get me through the apocalypse now.
Just focus on keeping them that perfect green color from start to finish. You'll get some awesome results.
The only time I treat them any differently is right before I know they're going to hit that big swell. I hit em with one single full dose of Jacks Bloom Booster. Then go strait back to the normal routine. I've found that they don't NEED any more than that. I've pushed a good amount of plants through flower without the booster and they did perfectly fine. With good production.
The bottom line is plant food is plant food. If someone wants to blow cash on magic bottles then that's their fault. I'll be throwing that cash at CDs, Video games and bar food.

Kygiacomo said:

it makes me ponder a interesting thought. Miracle gro gets bashed on every forum that i am on,but yet they have the 3-1-2 ratio in a few of their foods. they have the soluble 24-8-16 and a liquid 12-4-8. now idk if 3-1-2 is perfect or not. i just give my plants what they tell me they need. im not loyal to any one line. i will use organic,Mg,oscomote plus it dont really matter. i think the most important thing is finding something that u are happy with and can dial it in to meet your needs and give u piece of mind.

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It's the mineral content that's skewed towards hurting Canna.
Scotts even admitted it directly in a press interview after they bought GH!

Kingrow1 said:

I was under the impression that a decent vegetative NPK for marijuana was 3-1-2 whereby nitrogen is the main ingredient, even 2-1-1 / 3-1-1 is recomended....

So why is Canna, Ghe, Ionic, Biobizz and most others so far from this basic ratio, some even have ratios like 4-3-7 and so forth.

Maybe its just me but these numbers dont even seem to be in the ball park for Marijuwana....

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Advanced iguana juice....3-1-3...

MonkeyGrinder said:

The bottom line is plant food is plant food. If someone wants to blow cash on magic bottles then that's their fault. I'll be throwing that cash at CDs, Video games and bar food.

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That's the ticket. In the 60's and 70's I grew some killer stuff with plain old Miracle Gro blue crystals and tomato food. Swiping anyhydrous ammonia from drip tanks by irrigation ditches. Free seeds from high grade southern Mexican or Colombian/Panamanian. Now everything is so scientific.

Really you can avoid all this argument with "SuperSoil" ... Get you some Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil Mix, Make sure it's diced up and mixed up well before use, use this to start with in a 1 Gallon pot. Once it roots out the pot & when it looks like it needs something, ya drop it into the amended "SuperSoil" and just let it roll people worry too much ... sigh ... but this i know, the ganja likes that dirty nasty amended "SuperSoil"

@Connoisseurus Rex you are lost brother. Your "3% nitrogen" that may only be "80% concentrated" statement is ridiculous.

I think that a target NPK depends on several factors beginning with (but not limited to)substrate. Cation exchange capacity varies between coco, soil, peat based aggregates, hydroton, etc....An important detail to watch for is where the NPK is derived from because it can directly relate to how available it is with your specific substrate.

az2000 said:

I think the 3-1-2 ratio in veg came from hydro growers? I think they run higher than soil growers? I don't know.

My ratios are in my sig. I do about 1.5 (to 2) - 1 - 1.8. If I go higher on N I get n toxicity.

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Don't know why I didn't respond to this earlier. But, yes, the 3-1-2 ratio does come straight from hydroponics. Regardless the water quality I have to deal with for commercial applications, I always try hard for a 3-0.6-2.1 ratio. This gets simplified into a 3-1-2 ratio for the general consumer. TDS depends on carbonate, but usually is 700-900ppm.

If I'm doing a soil application, it depends on the soil quality. Oh man does it depends on soil quality. For example there was one time where I ran 1.2-0-1.8 for a soil application simply due to what the soil has to offer. So, when growing in soil it becomes so so different. Hell, the fertigation water is even much much lower TDS. Usually like 1/2 that of hydroponics. That farm with a 1.2-0-1.8 ratio for the fertigation water had a TDS of like 350-400.

Whenever i used 16-16-16 or grow straight through, the product really sucked. When i use grow to week 3.5 and then go to bloom and a pk boost for week 4.5-5.5 my product is way better. I think uncle ben doesnt have a clue. Thats my two cents. Ive tried so many of his theories and watched them all fail, except uncle bens topping technique, im sure that works but its also just topping, its not uncle bens i get a lot of my nutrients for free and use whatever i can get my hands on because food is food pretty much, but what ive seen first hand is that if you change the ratios from "veg" food, to "bloom" food and kick up p and k when they reccomend it, the products better. 1-1-1 is a dinosaur recipe and fertilizer companies have come a long way catering to marijuana growers needs.

guerrilla medic said:

@Connoisseurus Rex you are lost brother. Your "3% nitrogen" that may only be "80% concentrated" statement is ridiculous.

I think that a target NPK depends on several factors beginning with (but not limited to)substrate. Cation exchange capacity varies between coco, soil, peat based aggregates, hydroton, etc....An important detail to watch for is where the NPK is derived from because it can directly relate to how available it is with your specific substrate.

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It's not really about concentration, it's just an example I was trying to use to explain that not all n/p/k supplements are equal.

Just because it says 3%, it's where that nutrition is derived that makes the biggest impact. So whether 3-1-2 or 12-4-8, the ratio is the same but it can be the quality that differs.

When I make fresh manure tea, I use a 1:8 of pig or chicken and a 1:5 of rabbit. The ratio of rabbit is larger than that of the pig or chicken, but differs significantly in the amount of immediately usable nutrition as well as concentration of those nutrients.

Adjusting the ratio of pig or chicken manure to a higher concentration will burn the plants. Not all nutrition is created equal.

Connoisseurus Rex said:

Just because it says 3%, it's where that nutrition is derived that makes the biggest impact. So whether 3-1-2 or 12-4-8, the ratio is the same but it can be the quality that differs.

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There it is. When looking at that 3% nitrogen you want to identify if it is nitrate (immediately available), ammoniacal, or urea based. As far as the 3-1-2 NPK is concerned, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the military did a study on hemp back in the 40's or 50's and that was the NPK they came up with as best. I think 3-1-2 is a good ratio for coco because of the low potassium(coco is naturally packed with and holds K). For pro-mix or dwc I think that 3-1-4 might be better. Honestly, like several others have mentioned, you can knock it out of the park with anything close as long as your room is dialed and you have good genetics. I have grown rooms full of fore arm sized buds in rdwc using gh lucas, then done the same thing with the same strains in coco/perlite using dyna-gro grow the whole way through. Literally every fertilizer I have ever used worked well as long as the genetics and environment were right.

guerrilla medic said:

There it is. When looking at that 3% nitrogen you want to identify if it is nitrate (immediately available), ammoniacal, or urea based. As far as the 3-1-2 NPK is concerned, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the military did a study on hemp back in the 40's or 50's and that was the NPK they came up with as best. I think 3-1-2 is a good ratio for coco because of the low potassium(coco is naturally packed with and holds K). For pro-mix or dwc I think that 3-1-4 might be better. Honestly, like several others have mentioned, you can knock it out of the park with anything close as long as you're room is dialed and you have good genetics. I have grown rooms full of fore arm sized buds in rdwc using gh lucas, then done the same thing with the same strains in coco/perlite using dyna-gro grow the whole way through. Literally every fertilizer I have ever used worked well as long as the genetics and environment were right.

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I grow organically now. Much easier to dial in haha.

Connoisseurus Rex said:

It's not really about concentration, it's just an example I was trying to use to explain that not all n/p/k supplements are equal.

Just because it says 3%, it's where that nutrition is derived that makes the biggest impact. So whether 3-1-2 or 12-4-8, the ratio is the same but it can be the quality that differs.

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It's the quantity that differs. You are correct, the same ratio, but it's not a quality difference, it's a quantity difference. Therefore, it is a concentration difference.

Connoisseurus Rex said:

I grow organically now. Much easier to dial in haha.

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Much easier to not overdose is really what you are experiencing. Mostly because you can't concentrate most organic fertilizers in the same way you can concentrate synthetic fertilizers.

MisterBlah said:

It's the quantity that differs. You are correct, the same ratio, but it's not a quality difference, it's a quantity difference. Therefore, it is a concentration difference.



Much easier to not overdose is really what you are experiencing. Mostly because you can't concentrate most organic fertilizers in the same way you can concentrate synthetic fertilizers.

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It's not quantity at all. 3% nitrogen by weight/volume is 3%. It is the quality that determines the concentration to add. 1/4 tsp of one 3-1-2 solution can be way different than the same of another solution. They both contain the same amount but one can be much weaker/stronger.

Much easier to avoid overdose? Can't concentrate organics enough?

I've got a 5 gal bucket full of pig shit that says otherwise.

Dunno buy Canno coco for coco. Jungle juice for dwc. And soil I dont know soil, never used it.

Kingrow1 said:

I was under the impression that a decent vegetative NPK for marijuana was 3-1-2 whereby nitrogen is the main ingredient, even 2-1-1 / 3-1-1 is recomended....

So why is Canna, Ghe, Ionic, Biobizz and most others so far from this basic ratio, some even have ratios like 4-3-7 and so forth.

Maybe its just me but these numbers dont even seem to be in the ball park for Marijuwana....

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Whats your medium. Kiss. Canna coco. Or jungle juice. Both cheap. Both A+B. Both rip shit up. Dont add like big bud and all that crap lol though..Pretend the numbers mean fuckall

Connoisseurus Rex said:

It's not quantity at all. 3% nitrogen by weight/volume is 3%. It is the quality that determines the concentration to add. 1/4 tsp of one 3-1-2 solution can be way different than the same of another solution. They both contain the same amount but one can be much weaker/stronger.

Much easier to avoid overdose? Can't concentrate organics enough?

I've got a 5 gal bucket full of pig shit that says otherwise.

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I feel like you misunderstood what I said, and that's okay, because I can be shitty at communication sometimes.

If a fertilizer blend has 3% nitrogen, it can be in 3 forms. Most commonly Nitrate or Ammonia, though. 3% Nitrate will has a slightly different effect than 3% Ammonia, but overall, not that big of a deal. So, if that's what you are referring to, then yes, you are correct in that it work differently. But it's not so simple as saying one is weaker or stronger than another. And most certainly not MUCH weaker/stronger. The difference in feeding plants ammoniacal nitrogen vs nitrate nitrogen is measurable but it is not this astronomical difference.

If a fertilizer blend has 1% Phosphate in P2O5, it doesn't matter where it came from. It's phosphate. It's an anion and there is no such thing as stronger or weaker phosphate. There is only a higher or lower concentration. The same applies to Potassium, just instead it is a cation.

In regards to concentrated organic fertilizers.... you seem to have forgotten what the term "most" means. It means that the majority fall into the category, not all. So, you're pig manure being too concentrated is accurate. I didn't say "You can't concentrate any organic fertilizer to a point of toxicity". I said most. Regardless your methods, you can always overdose on your fertilizer.

That is just a general guide. Like a guide you would use in making your own ?-?-? mix. I use a way different mix for my moms.
instead of 3-2-1 tsp/g GH recommends for aggressive feed which has to much nitrate nitrogen. Or a luxury amount I use more of a 1.8-1.6-0.5 mix and get better results and much faster rooting, faster transition, and it has more stored energy than one that has higher nitrogen specially Nitrates because a plant will use 60% of its energy to assimilate the nitrates. Won't burn it at the luxury level but why make your plant work harder to grow instead of letting use more energy to store essentials that it will need in flowering? Like stored sugars that way it will use less in flowering do to it having stored resources and can give more energy to producing flowers.

Kingrow1 said:

I was under the impression that a decent vegetative NPK for marijuana was 3-1-2 whereby nitrogen is the main ingredient, even 2-1-1 / 3-1-1 is recomended....

So why is Canna, Ghe, Ionic, Biobizz and most others so far from this basic ratio, some even have ratios like 4-3-7 and so forth.

Maybe its just me but these numbers dont even seem to be in the ball park for Marijuwana....

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Aliens

MrClone said:

That is just a general guide. Like a guide you would use in making your own ?-?-? mix. I use a way different mix for my moms.
instead of 3-2-1 tsp/g GH recommends for aggressive feed which has to much nitrate nitrogen. Or a luxury amount I use more of a 1.8-1.6-0.5 mix and get better results and much faster rooting, faster transition, and it has more stored energy than one that has higher nitrogen specially Nitrates because a plant will use 60% of its energy to assimilate the nitrates. Won't burn it at the luxury level but why make your plant work harder to grow instead of letting use more energy to store essentials that it will need in flowering? Like stored sugars that way it will use less in flowering do to it having stored resources and can give more energy to producing flowers.

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Good post dude, im more on a 2-1-1 fert for soil with no calcium and equal nitrate and ureic levels atm which i feel is better than a nitrate based hydro 2-1-2 fert. I feel npk is more limited in hydro whereas soil is easier to adjust. Hoagland says it best and companies like jacks have a much wider npk range for each medium.

zeddd said:

Aliens

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Yep...

Kingrow1 said:

Good post dude, im more on a 2-1-1 fert for soil with no calcium and equal nitrate and ureic levels atm which i feel is better than a nitrate based hydro 2-1-2 fert. I feel npk is more limited in hydro whereas soil is easier to adjust. Hoagland says it best and companies like jacks have a much wider npk range for each medium.

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Thank you .. And yea soil is easier for sure.. I get so caught up in running my store I sometimes forget the plants but in soil its much more forgiving than hydro with less attention needed.