Humic Acid Reduces THC???

Northwood

Well-Known Member
Garden myths is ridiculously bloated with contrarian, attenton whoring
LMAO okay, you can choose to stick to the primary scientific publications then if you like instead. ;)

I've got no stake in the matter one way or the other, but I do feel it's an interesting area of discussion. Perhaps the 18th century notion of organic material decay isn't the end of it.
 

radiant Rudy

Well-Known Member


In all the uproar that followed the publication of Lehmann and Kleber's (2015) article, little attention unfortunately seems to have been devoted to the chemical nature and dynamics of humic substances, making it likely that we are going to witness once again what Jenny (1961), writing about soil acidity, once referred to sarcastically as a “merry-go-round”: There is a good chance that another Science or Nature article will be published in about 2025, extolling anew Waksman's perpetually “emergent” perspective on soil humus. However, from a more optimistic perspective, the soil science community may yet decide to take up Lehmann and Kleber's research agenda and, critically, note that the tools needed to answer their call and improve our understanding of the dynamics of soil organic matter at the microscale already exist, indeed have been available for a decade, but have remained largely unused.
 

Dreminen169

Well-Known Member
Ya, i have heard of that product. I think they were in on the significance of microbes early on. Ive never used but from what ive come across that item has a good reputation and many users.

Have you tried EM1?
Em-1 is great stuff. They use it for a number of different applications including for the smell of sewage.
It’s especially great if your soil has gone anaerobic. It will out compete and kill off the bad bacteria. It’s actually very simple and easy to make on your own with rice & brown sugar known as Lacto Bacillus or LABS! It’s also healthy & good for you to drink :weed:
  • Great Microbial Treatment for all plants (flowers, veggies, trees, etc.), compost, and soils.
  • Improves Soil Structure and Drainage
  • Bioremediation Bacteria Eliminates Foul Odors In The Home (Pets, Smoke, Garbage, Drains, Paint, etc.)
  • Improves Water Quality In Aquariums, Ponds and Rivers
  • Effective Soil Conditioner
 
Lamar's method which predates the Nature article also uses NaOH as the step in initial extraction: https://d419f219-4382-415c-9bf0-6aecfe238506.filesusr.com/ugd/6831f1_83b86a2e3f8e4fa99e5aabaf82f177e3.pdf

Edit: Also Kleber & Lehmann are still at it in 2019: https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2134/jeq2019.01.0036
You can use NAOH or hydrogen peroxide to create humates from humin. It can also be done naturally through oxidation or microbial breakdown. Shale, compost and river sediment are all natural sources of humates without any extraction.
 

Northwood

Well-Known Member
You can use NAOH or hydrogen peroxide to create humates from humin. It can also be done naturally through oxidation or microbial breakdown. Shale, compost and river sediment are all natural sources of humates without any extraction.
Now I'm confused. Isn't hydrogen peroxide used to oxidize the coal prior to humic acid extraction with either NAOH or KOH? For example: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/162/1/012025/pdf

Anyway, I rather enjoyed this March 2021 "letter to the editor" in response to Lehmann and Kleber by Jean-François Ponge. It goes out of its way not to ruffle the feathers of traditional soil scientists but remains somewhat balanced. Likely not peer reviewed, but it's an interesting take on the "issue": https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337495687_Humus_dark_side_of_life_or_intractable_'aether'
 

Northwood

Well-Known Member


In all the uproar that followed the publication of Lehmann and Kleber's (2015) article, little attention unfortunately seems to have been devoted to the chemical nature and dynamics of humic substances, making it likely that we are going to witness once again what Jenny (1961), writing about soil acidity, once referred to sarcastically as a “merry-go-round”: There is a good chance that another Science or Nature article will be published in about 2025, extolling anew Waksman's perpetually “emergent” perspective on soil humus. However, from a more optimistic perspective, the soil science community may yet decide to take up Lehmann and Kleber's research agenda and, critically, note that the tools needed to answer their call and improve our understanding of the dynamics of soil organic matter at the microscale already exist, indeed have been available for a decade, but have remained largely unused.
Yeah, I know that one. And you do realize that's not a critique of Lehmann and Kleber's 2015 article right? It's a perspective article that basically says Lehmann & Kleber's ideas aren't novel, and blame the lack of a more interdisciplinary approach to understanding the fate of soil organic matter that have at least partly held back the science between Waksman's 1936 paper up until a handful of recent papers - most notably that of Lehmann and Kleblers:

From the first part of the article you posted:
"Three years ago, a novel “soil continuum model” was proposed, in which soil organic matter was suggested to be of heterogeneous composition and to consist of a continuum of organic fragments of all sizes. A search of the literature reveals that this model is identical to several similar conceptualizations proposed about 15 years ago, and that it corresponds closely with the description of humic substances given in Waksman's (1936) remarkably thorough book on the topic, which also emphasized the intimate connections existing between humic substances and soil microorganisms. Several historical reasons, reviewed in this Perspective article, may explain why Waksman's viewpoint might still be considered novel more than 80 years later. Here we argue that the key reason for the agonizingly slow rate of progress in the field is linked to the extreme compartmentalization of research and education in soil science, which has been organized along distinct subdisciplines, with the result that interdisciplinary efforts that are desperately needed to understand the dynamics of soil humic substances are very hard to launch."

I tend to agree with the paper you linked to. Soil science is too compartmentalized. Hopefully the authors are wrong that it will take until 2025 for another paper to build upon Waksman's work again.
 

toomp

Well-Known Member
This was a good read
Alot of ways to spin it but Im saving the humics for the fruits and veggies
 

Cannabisco

Active Member
I use HA seldomly , mostly in teas or because it's included in a few products.. I don't seek humic acids out.
I do use alot more supplemental FA as foliar or root drench in veg. I think in small doses it could still be used as a beneficial chelator to some effect. I buy the water soluble 90% FA off Amazon on the cheap. My opinion after reading studies is that it's better suited for veg., when in preflower I taper down already because it's simply not needed anymore. That's when I start supplementing cytokinins (cytoplus) for a cpl weeks and using PSB Phosphorus Solubilizing Bacterial& KSB Potassium solubilizing bacteria to my base & or teas. Alfalfa- triacontanol & Seaweed products work well too. I find myself using them every other watering at low doses works nicely, same for supplementing magnesium & sulfur with my "PK" boost.
I'm very interested if brassinosteroid brassinolide would be helpful in flower too.
 
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