Humic Acid Reduces THC???

radiant Rudy

radiant Rudy

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
I have a crop two weeks into flower right now, so I cut out all humic/fulvic acid because of this.

Oh gosh, they'll all be rabidly against this study since it's bad for business. I'm interested in the authors' hypothesis that different pathways are involved in this humic acid/thc lowering effect than in other plants that have shown an increase in essential oils/terpenes. Considering the overall quality of their research papers, and the fact that their other findings match up closely with what I've observed, I've stopped giving humic/fulvic acid to my plants in flower. I'll def keep it around for germination, cuttings, foliar sprays in veg, etc, but no more during flower for now.
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Message to URB

Hey Guys,

Have you reviewed this study which details undesirable effects on cannabis thc values associated with humate application? If so I am most interested in your reaction.

www.frontiersin.org

Frontiers | Impact of N, P, K, and Humic Acid Supplementation on the Chemical Profile of Medical Cannabis (Cannabis sativa L)

Mineral nutrition is a major factor affecting plant growth and function. Increasing evidence supports the involvement of macro and micronutrients in secondar...
www.frontiersin.org www.frontiersin.org
 
D

dtcharneski

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
I have a crop two weeks into flower right now, so I cut out all humic/fulvic acid because of this.

Oh gosh, they'll all be rabidly against this study since it's bad for business. I'm interested in the authors' hypothesis that different pathways are involved in this humic acid/thc lowering effect than in other plants that have shown an increase in essential oils/terpenes. Considering the overall quality of their research papers, and the fact that their other findings match up closely with what I've observed, I've stopped giving humic/fulvic acid to my plants in flower. I'll def keep it around for germination, cuttings, foliar sprays in veg, etc, but no more during flower for now.
Click to expand...
did you get a chance to check out the paper i posted about thca causing cell death?? I think that could maybe be the reason HA is different in marijuana than other plants. other plants use calcium stores for senescence marijuana uses its own thc/cbca for senescence and pest/uv/stress so while humic helps the other plants and marijuana uptake nutrients better to facilitate growth i think that is bad for marijuana(mid-late flowering). The extra nutrients up taken from the humic still has to be processed and stored which the marijuana plant does, but like I stated earlier a plant must divide its energy between mass/nutrient production so if we give it more nutrients to process it will eat them them and use them, different nutrients carry different functions so the increased uptake means the increased production and storage in the area said nutrients are involved, as one of the earlier articles shown the plants will keep taken more and more nutes, and growing(to a limit) but higher nute levels lead to more mass at the sacrifice of secondary metabolites, I feel the plant is gonna always try to survive so it can produce the most fruit and reproduce etc, so it will process the extra nutes and grow so as to not die(nute burn ) sacrificing our precious cannabinoids and terps in the process. Hence why I and a lot of people feel lowering nutes through the end helps with a multitude of things. You gotta let the plant die naturally ... Sorry High AF hope that makes sense
 
Bill Dillows

Bill Dillows

Member
Humic acid is a long-chain heavy humate. It can cause kidney and liver problems in humans. It can be derived from byproducts of the coal and natural gas industry. It needs to be broken down further to become available to plants and is not soluble at acidic conditions necessary for plant growth.

Fulvic acid is a short-chain light humate. It is suitable for human and animal health. It can be chemically extracted from humic acid. It can also be found naturally in peat, shale, compost and river sediment and several other sources. It is soluble at ALL pH levels and is immediately available for plant or human health benefits as an nutrient chelator.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Well someone better tell the cannabis specific nutrient companies because most all of them have their own humic solution in a bottle they charge an arm and a leg for.
 
WintersBones

WintersBones

Well-Known Member
Interesting stuff. From most of my reading and nutrient schedules I can think of (cocoforcanabis for sure) that I've checked out, the HA is only used in veg and cut out by early/mid bloom. I didn't understand why that was, this basically explains why. Cool.
 
Bill Dillows

Bill Dillows

Member
I did a little more searching and was able to track down the source of humic acid called "Brandt-uptake-12" used in the cannabis study. A partial description is as follows:

Humic Acid
Guaranteed Analysis Soluble Potash (K2O) .. . 3.0% Derived from potassium hydroxide. F76 ALSO CONTAINS NONPLANT FOOD INGREDIENT: 12% Humic Acid derived from Leonardite Humic acid analyzed by acid precipitation method. General Information BRANDT UPTAKE 12 may increase micronutrient uptake and is readily dispersed in most fertilizer or micronutrient products. Rate Recommendations This product can be applied any time during the crop cycle, from planting to harvest. Foliar Application: Apply 8-64 fl oz per 10-100 gallons of water as needed. Fertigation: Apply through irrigation systems at a rate of 1–2 gallons per acre per treatment. Repeat as needed.

The paper states that 200 mL/pot of a 1/10 dilution of humic acid is used as a daily treatment. This is in far access of the recommended amounts used in the field (1-2 gallons per acre of treatment- applied once (repeat as needed) during the growing season.) The humic acid treatment used in the study is overkill (much like over applying an NPK fertilizer would cause) causing a detrimental effect on plant growth and cannabinoid production
 
radiant Rudy

radiant Rudy

Well-Known Member
@Bill Dillows this scientist (below) also references the possible over application of humate.





MESSAGE FROM Dr,. Sarah, PhD, chief soil scientist at MicraCulture.


Screenshot_20210302-150006.png
Hey Rudy,

Thanks for getting in touch and sharing this research. I had not seen this study before, so it is always nice to have new information brought to my attention.
We are so limited on the availability of scientifically sound studies on cannabinoids due to the classification of it as a restricted substance in so many parts of the world still. But it does seem to be improving, so that is encouraging.

Regarding your concern for humic acids in Plant Probiotics. First, yes we do add some humic acid, derived from Leonardite. We have found in our studies (and building on the heaps of peer reviewed published literature) that having it in our mixture increases the functioning of our microbes significantly. But it is really interesting that Bernstein et al found that it did have an effect on the cannabinoid content of THC! That is definitely concerning, and I am curious to see more data come out about this.
Although, honestly, I do not believe that if we were to replicate this experiment using the concentrations and application schedule we prescribe for Plant Probiotics (we suggest applying every 2 weeks or once a month and in this experiment they applied daily!), we would see any significant changes in cannabinoid content. I think drowning a plant in any substance would cause negative effects on it! Moderation is key!
And the professional growers that have worked Plant Probiotics into their growing regimen have only sent us praise on the effects on their cannabis - I would expect that would not be the case if there were significant negative effects from the HAs.
Additionally, the incredible number of studies showing the beneficial effects of including humic acid when growing plants other than cannabis further convinces me that it is worth including.

But I will keep my finger on the pulse of this to see if any further studies do come out or if these results are replicated. Very interesting!

Let me know if you have any questions about my off the cuff thoughts.

Take care Radiant Rudy,

Sarah
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
radiant Rudy said:
@Bill Dillows this scientist (below) also references the possible over application of humate.





MESSAGE FROM Dr,. Sarah, PhD, chief soil scientist at MicraCulture.


View attachment 4841883
Hey Rudy,

Thanks for getting in touch and sharing this research. I had not seen this study before, so it is always nice to have new information brought to my attention.
We are so limited on the availability of scientifically sound studies on cannabinoids due to the classification of it as a restricted substance in so many parts of the world still. But it does seem to be improving, so that is encouraging.

Regarding your concern for humic acids in Plant Probiotics. First, yes we do add some humic acid, derived from Leonardite. We have found in our studies (and building on the heaps of peer reviewed published literature) that having it in our mixture increases the functioning of our microbes significantly. But it is really interesting that Bernstein et al found that it did have an effect on the cannabinoid content of THC! That is definitely concerning, and I am curious to see more data come out about this.
Although, honestly, I do not believe that if we were to replicate this experiment using the concentrations and application schedule we prescribe for Plant Probiotics (we suggest applying every 2 weeks or once a month and in this experiment they applied daily!), we would see any significant changes in cannabinoid content. I think drowning a plant in any substance would cause negative effects on it! Moderation is key!
And the professional growers that have worked Plant Probiotics into their growing regimen have only sent us praise on the effects on their cannabis - I would expect that would not be the case if there were significant negative effects from the HAs.
Additionally, the incredible number of studies showing the beneficial effects of including humic acid when growing plants other than cannabis further convinces me that it is worth including.

But I will keep my finger on the pulse of this to see if any further studies do come out or if these results are replicated. Very interesting!

Let me know if you have any questions about my off the cuff thoughts.

Take care Radiant Rudy,

Sarah
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awesome Rudy! Very cool she got back to you with a real response too.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
radiant Rudy said:
@Bill Dillows this scientist (below) also references the possible over application of humate.





MESSAGE FROM Dr,. Sarah, PhD, chief soil scientist at MicraCulture.


View attachment 4841883
Hey Rudy,

Thanks for getting in touch and sharing this research. I had not seen this study before, so it is always nice to have new information brought to my attention.
We are so limited on the availability of scientifically sound studies on cannabinoids due to the classification of it as a restricted substance in so many parts of the world still. But it does seem to be improving, so that is encouraging.

Regarding your concern for humic acids in Plant Probiotics. First, yes we do add some humic acid, derived from Leonardite. We have found in our studies (and building on the heaps of peer reviewed published literature) that having it in our mixture increases the functioning of our microbes significantly. But it is really interesting that Bernstein et al found that it did have an effect on the cannabinoid content of THC! That is definitely concerning, and I am curious to see more data come out about this.
Although, honestly, I do not believe that if we were to replicate this experiment using the concentrations and application schedule we prescribe for Plant Probiotics (we suggest applying every 2 weeks or once a month and in this experiment they applied daily!), we would see any significant changes in cannabinoid content. I think drowning a plant in any substance would cause negative effects on it! Moderation is key!
And the professional growers that have worked Plant Probiotics into their growing regimen have only sent us praise on the effects on their cannabis - I would expect that would not be the case if there were significant negative effects from the HAs.
Additionally, the incredible number of studies showing the beneficial effects of including humic acid when growing plants other than cannabis further convinces me that it is worth including.

But I will keep my finger on the pulse of this to see if any further studies do come out or if these results are replicated. Very interesting!

Let me know if you have any questions about my off the cuff thoughts.

Take care Radiant Rudy,

Sarah
Click to expand...
nice! i have not received a reply from BioAg yet.
 
radiant Rudy

radiant Rudy

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
nice! i have not received a reply from BioAg yet.
Click to expand...
I sent another message to URB and also went to BioAg's contact page and asked them too!

Rurumo said:
awesome Rudy! Very cool she got back to you with a real response too.
Click to expand...
Ya im gonna buy a lil inoculant from Doc Sarah. You can test it out for 15.99$ including shipping.

This is what i normally use. I apply at germination and again when potting up. This ia an other inoculant that uses himate.

Screenshot_20210302-175839.png
 
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rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
radiant Rudy

radiant Rudy

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
you ever hear of this stuff?
www.teraganix.com

EM1 Soil Conditioner - Improve Garden Health & Fertility | TeraGanix

EM1 Soil Conditioner from TeraGanix is the perfect product to create a vibrant and diverse garden environment. Make use of its huge array of applications to improve soil fertility, promote plant health, and control pests & diseases. OMRI Listed. Non-GMO
www.teraganix.com www.teraganix.com
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Ya, i have heard of that product. I think they were in on the significance of microbes early on. Ive never used but from what ive come across that item has a good reputation and many users.

Have you tried EM1?
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
radiant Rudy said:
Ya, i have heard of that product. I think they were in on the significance of microbes early on. Ive never used but from what ive come across that item has a good reputation and many users.

Have you tried EM1?
Click to expand...
i got a sample bottle somewhere many years ago. i used it out in my veggie g'house as like a pre-season "kickstart" to my beds.
somebody on here a long time ago had a post of how to re-innoculate itself so you only need to buy 1 bottle.
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
Bill Dillows

Bill Dillows

Member
The article is from 2015 and was controversial at the time. Just like humus, black holes couldn't be seen with outdated technology, but we knew they existed. There has been a lot of humate science advancements since then. ISO and LAMAR testing are more accurate ways to quantify humates and are AOAC accepted standards now.
 
Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
radiant Rudy said:
I sent another message to URB and also went to BioAg's contact page and asked them too!


Ya im gonna buy a lil inoculant from Doc Sarah. You can test it out for 15.99$ including shipping.

This is what i normally use. I apply at germination and again when potting up. This ia an other inoculant that uses himate.

View attachment 4842116
Click to expand...
I wasn't aware of that product, but I like it, it has some of the most studied strains of rhizobacteria. Where do you buy it Rudy?
 
N

Northwood

Well-Known Member
Bill Dillows said:
The article is from 2015 and was controversial at the time. Just like humus, black holes couldn't be seen with outdated technology, but we knew they existed. There has been a lot of humate science advancements since then. ISO and LAMAR testing are more accurate ways to quantify humates and are AOAC accepted standards now.
Click to expand...
Lamar's method which predates the Nature article also uses NaOH as the step in initial extraction: https://d419f219-4382-415c-9bf0-6aecfe238506.filesusr.com/ugd/6831f1_83b86a2e3f8e4fa99e5aabaf82f177e3.pdf

Edit: Also Kleber & Lehmann are still at it in 2019: https://acsess.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2134/jeq2019.01.0036
 
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radiant Rudy

radiant Rudy

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
I wasn't aware of that product, but I like it, it has some of the most studied strains of rhizobacteria. Where do you buy it Rudy?
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I think i got the tainio product from AEA site. Let me know if you cant find it.

More stuff on that here: https://www.gardenmyths.com/humus-does-not-exist-says-new-study/
[/QUOTE]
Northwood said:
Synthetic - meaning not existing naturally and instead created by humans. (According to the article published in Nature.)

More stuff on that here: https://www.gardenmyths.com/humus-does-not-exist-says-new-study/
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Garden myths is ridiculously bloated with contrarian, attention whoring
 
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