human shitbag ariel castro hangs self

curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Only 1 of these can be true:

(1) humanity is an absolute thing, or,
(2) we are only human by definition.

If you apply the definition standard to humans you yourself are in danger of re-categorization to inhumanity in times of scarcity.

There are monsters. It's how we pay back monsters with monstrosities (revenge), we create monsters. Societies engage in magical thinking. Because they can't bear to see what we are all capable of. They simply have not had the 'name' attached to them or been in a situation where they 'bend' yet. The fallacy is that a judge and 12 men, honest and true, can proscribe to any human a category as less than human is a rabbit hole that breeds war and savagery on a genocidal level. Does no one get it? THIS HAS FAILED!

Are we still in the dark ages? Why are we still burning witches at the fucking stake? These madmen are broken. We simply don't have the technology to fix the machine. You see the rabbit hole goes a bit deeper. In the darkest part of our selves we need monsters so by comparison we are 'good'. None of us are all good or all evil we are apex predators with all the agony and ecstasy it brings.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Total Head said:
what i don't understand is propping up the "everyone is a special snowflake" position with examples of how wrong things go when we "judge people" without any sort of due process. the jews being gassed didn't get a trial where they admitted to atrocities, taking a rapist out back and shooting him does not afford him any due process, propaganda from a charismatic dictator and his henchmen leading to public vigilantism is not due process.

of course "due process" is not infallible. of course this same process results in fucked up shit happening all the time. there's only so much we can reasonably prove or disprove in 2013, but after a civil society offers the accused the best they have (due process that includes free council and laws to prevent railroading) and decides that the accused will never come back to society, their job is done. unless you have some sort of magical solution that doesn't involve treating people who admit to really heinous shit the same accommodations and protections we would give to schoolchildren or the free poor, i don't know what you propose we do to "improve" the situation...one armed guard for each prisoner? cameras in all the cells and hallways? more freedom? less privileges? more privileges? individual cells?

our prison system is grotesquely fucked up for a country of such privilege, but we still spend nearly 4x as much per prisoner as we do per student, and i can't get any clear stats on what the prison:mental health spending ratios are. students are the future, not guys who tie up and rape girls for 10 years. the time to worry about guys like that is before they commit crimes like that, not after. the reality is that we need to prioritize unless the budget fairy is going to come and solve all the bullshit going on and allocate funds for us to worry about all the poor poor guys with bodies in their basements. those poor shafted souls. it sounds a lot like the "give everyone a trophy, playing tag is mean" crowd. if everyone is such a special snowflake, where do we get the money to treat them as such, and how do we make sure to avoid social casualties? how is it better? how is it different?
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I do not think "special snowflake" thinking is needed. What will do for me is to recognize that we are all of us human. You, I, Richard Feynman, Finshaggy, Ariel. The comforting but evil lie is to believe that you or I are better than Ariel, somehow not the same. Then the capacity creeps in to classify him as not really human. And that's when otherwise good-hearted people talk about retribution by torture. I submit and assert that this is wrong. That supersedes even the economic argument that you raise. Jmo.
 
thunderrod

thunderrod

Member
Castro hanging himself is his right. Everyone is AFRAID of death, he was going to die in a prison, for 30+ years, but he decided to go on his own time, and is his own way. anyway you put it.. DEATH is what every man women and child is MOST afraid of in this world...to face death, knowing when, where and how you will die takes courage. To commit suicide means you have no fear of what is next... I have fear of dying, I don't know what is "next"...
 
srh88

srh88

Well-Known Member
thunderrod said:
Castro hanging himself is his right. Everyone is AFRAID of death, he was going to die in a prison, for 30+ years, but he decided to go on his own time, and is his own way. anyway you put it.. DEATH is what every man women and child is MOST afraid of in this world...
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1000 years
 
WeedKillsBrainCells

WeedKillsBrainCells

Well-Known Member
Seems logical to me that its just nothing when you die. Look around at the world and its not hard to see the cycles. Makes sense you end up with the same as before you were born. Wouldn't put money on it but more believable to me than heaven/hell
 
thunderrod

thunderrod

Member
In a 100 years all that is living on this planet will be dead, just dust and bones. But if you believe in modern reality, they have our DNA, they have the ability to transfer our consciousness, our "soul" to another place..there is a chance our "soul" can live on...
 
Total Head

Total Head

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
Only 1 of these can be true:

(1) humanity is an absolute thing, or,
(2) we are only human by definition.

If you apply the definition standard to humans you yourself are in danger of re-categorization to inhumanity in times of scarcity.

There are monsters. It's how we pay back monsters with monstrosities (revenge), we create monsters. Societies engage in magical thinking. Because they can't bear to see what we are all capable of. They simply have not had the 'name' attached to them or been in a situation where they 'bend' yet. The fallacy is that a judge and 12 men, honest and true, can proscribe to any human a category as less than human is a rabbit hole that breeds war and savagery on a genocidal level. Does no one get it? THIS HAS FAILED!

Are we still in the dark ages? Why are we still burning witches at the fucking stake? These madmen are broken. We simply don't have the technology to fix the machine. You see the rabbit hole goes a bit deeper. In the darkest part of our selves we need monsters so by comparison we are 'good'. None of us are all good or all evil we are apex predators with all the agony and ecstasy it brings.
Click to expand...
my question then is obviously "what is the alternative?" what is it that we should be doing about these types of societal problems if the judge and jury routine is "predatory" and needlessly makes pariahs out of our fellow man? if the answer is some technology which we do not yet possess, i fail to see what is so "wrong" about our current approach. unless you are suggesting we do nothing at all, or have a viable alternative, i don't see how we should have a moral beef with the current system. even if we were to implement a fool-proof prevention tactic right now, what do we do about the people who missed the "prevention deadline" and still walk among us committing heinous acts?
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Total Head said:
my question then is obviously "what is the alternative?" what is it that we should be doing about these types of societal problems if the judge and jury routine is "predatory" and needlessly makes pariahs out of our fellow man? if the answer is some technology which we do not yet possess, i fail to see what is so "wrong" about our current approach. unless you are suggesting we do nothing at all, or have a viable alternative, i don't see how we should have a moral beef with the current system. even if we were to implement a fool-proof prevention tactic right now, what do we do about the people who missed the "prevention deadline" and still walk among us committing heinous acts?
Click to expand...
My beef with killing monsters, our current prison system for housing monsters and other problems is it doesn't work. It just creates more monsters and better skilled problems. I already gave my solution very early in. I'm sorry you did not read it.
 
Total Head

Total Head

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I do not think "special snowflake" thinking is needed. What will do for me is to recognize that we are all of us human. You, I, Richard Feynman, Finshaggy, Ariel. The comforting but evil lie is to believe that you or I are better than Ariel, somehow not the same. Then the capacity creeps in to classify him as not really human. And that's when otherwise good-hearted people talk about retribution by torture. I submit and assert that this is wrong. That supersedes even the economic argument that you raise. Jmo.
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something else i don't understand is how, in a time where grown civil men still regularly challenge each other to fisticuffs over women and possessions, can we try to hold ourselves to some sort of fancy standard because we are "intellectual beings"? do slackjawed cretins not represent the same "us"? what makes emulating the guy in the argyle vest better than being like the guy with the sharpened pool cue?
 
Total Head

Total Head

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
My beef with killing monsters, our current prison system for housing monsters and other problems is it doesn't work. It just creates more monsters and better skilled problems. I already gave my solution very early in. I'm sorry you did not read it.
Click to expand...

i did read it, but it is unclear to me if you are advocating for isolation or not. i get the whole bit about separating the lesser offenders from prisoners and piling on the rehabilitation efforts, but i am unclear about what level of isolation you are calling for. do you mean no human contact isolation, no common yard time isolation, etc?

while i admit that part of the problem in prison is the level of communication the inmates create out of thin air, i honestly believe that genuine isolation is more cruel than throwing someone to the wolves to fend for themselves. however, i don't see how it is possible to rehabilitate someone who gets caught up in prison politics and feels they must do certain things in order to protect themselves or their family. guys in solitary still find ways to send out messages, call for hits, conduct business, etc. all while going batshit crazy from the isolation.

i am unclear about whether i understood your proposal.
 
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