Human Rights vs Civil Rights Cultivates into National Security Complications

Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Moses Mobetta said:
Like stop signs, speed limits and so on. It is good to have rules to go by that make life safer. It's also true that just because it's legal doesn't mean I should do it.
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no, it certainly does not, there are many stupid laws, made by stupid people...all i'm suggesting is that it may be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the reason that rule exists before you decide whether it can be broken with impunity....
 
Moses Mobetta

Moses Mobetta

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
no, it certainly does not, there are many stupid laws, made by stupid people...all i'm suggesting is that it may be a good idea to familiarize yourself with the reason that rule exists before you decide whether it can be broken with impunity....
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Consideration of others is helpful in making that determination. Just because I think so doesn't mean I'm right and it doesn't mean it's good for everyone else.
 
DNAprotection

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
there are no naturally endowed human rights...rights are a human construct we invented to both protect ourselves, and justify fucking over other people....we're animals that have evolved self awareness...so we're about a step and a half in front of the chimpanzees...take away "society" for a week or two and see how many "rights" you retain

and i'm not trying to be antagonistic...just realistic...we grant rights to each other...there is no divine being dispensing them as we're conceived...and their continued existence depends upon our continued respect of those "rights"....
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Even "wild animals" recognize and respect natural rights (if you will).
Predators will kill to eat (= natural right), but if not hungry, the same critter will be perfectly peaceful in letting normally prey animals drink at the water hole (also natural right).
We simply just have it born into us to "respect" certain natural rights.
Most critters will adopt an orphaned new born, humans tend to do the same, because there is something in us all that knows the bottom line and keeps driving us and all critters to try to stay consistent with that line.
All species have individuals who for whatever reasons seem to lose track of the bottom line rules of existence, such is also a natural, yet for the most part an anomaly phenomena.
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
DNAprotection said:
Even "wild animals" recognize and respect natural rights (if you will).
Predators will kill to eat (= natural right), but if not hungry, the same critter will be perfectly peaceful in letting normally prey animals drink at the water hole (also natural right).
We simply just have it born into us to "respect" certain natural rights.
Most critters will adopt an orphaned new born, humans tend to do the same, because there is something in us all that knows the bottom line and keeps driving us and all critters to try to stay consistent with that line.
All species have individuals who for whatever reasons seem to lose track of the bottom line rules of existence, such is also a natural, yet for the most part an anomaly phenomena.
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no...
i've watched cats play with mice and crickets...predators may let a prey animal drink, or they may feel playful and chase it till it dies, then walk away from it and let the hyenas have it...

we do not have anything "born" into us...it is taught to us by example from the day we are born...we learn how to interact with the world from watching those around us do it...

some animals will "adopt" a newborn, and some won't..it's not guaranteed till it happens...there is no magical rule that an animal will always take an adoptee...quite often they ignore it and let it starve....

"All species have individuals who for whatever reasons seem to lose track of the bottom line rules of existence, such is also a natural, yet for the most part an anomaly phenomena."
where are these rules of existence printed out? what are they? what is this "bottom line" you try to attribute to the rest of the race? sure you're not trying to project your own beliefs onto the rest of the world? cause i don't believe a word of that...
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
depends on the situation...sometimes what seems like the right thing, isn't, because we're not aware of all the implications...not that i trust the government to keep me informed of things they should, but...
simplified example...when the tourist feed the bears here, the bears are happy, and the tourist get some cool videos.
but those bears keep coming back...they quit foraging, lose any fear of humans, break into vehicles, chase people around their cabins, and end up getting euthanized, because tourists fed them some marshmallows...
like i said, simplified example, but the point remains, sometimes what seems harmless, or even right, isn't...
which is the reason some of those rules exist...how do you tell the useful ones from the stupid ones?
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Little known fact, if you don't want a bear breaking into your car, drive a manual. Most bears can't drive a stick shift.

 
DNAprotection

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
no...
i've watched cats play with mice and crickets...predators may let a prey animal drink, or they may feel playful and chase it till it dies, then walk away from it and let the hyenas have it...

we do not have anything "born" into us...it is taught to us by example from the day we are born...we learn how to interact with the world from watching those around us do it...

some animals will "adopt" a newborn, and some won't..it's not guaranteed till it happens...there is no magical rule that an animal will always take an adoptee...quite often they ignore it and let it starve....

"All species have individuals who for whatever reasons seem to lose track of the bottom line rules of existence, such is also a natural, yet for the most part an anomaly phenomena."
where are these rules of existence printed out? what are they? what is this "bottom line" you try to attribute to the rest of the race? sure you're not trying to project your own beliefs onto the rest of the world? cause i don't believe a word of that...
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Yes even killer whales will toss a seal in "play" before eating or maybe not eating, but your observations are so completely surface that it makes me wonder?
There are reasons for all behavior, cause and effect.
That "play" as described is far more than "play", it is practice.
Things must learn to live, thats part of whats born into us, part of the natural "law", the bottom line.
The need for "printed rules" in itself reflects the anomaly of disconnect.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DNAprotection said:
Yes even killer whales will toss a seal in "play" before eating or maybe not eating, but your observations are so completely surface that it makes me wonder?
There are reasons for all behavior, cause and effect.
That "play" as described is far more than "play", it is practice.
Things must learn to live, thats part of whats born into us, part of the natural "law", the bottom line.
The need for "printed rules" in itself reflects the anomaly of disconnect.
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Naive to say there are universal "rules" or "natural law" for behavior in the natural world.
 
DNAprotection

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Naive to say there are universal "rules" or "natural law" for behavior in the natural world.
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The root point here is that there are reasons for all behavior, cause and effect is always at play, to think otherwise would be the "Naive" point of view. Not to mention that obviously terms like "natural law" etc, are just labels we as humans assign to things in effort to communicate.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DNAprotection said:
The root point here is that there are reasons for all behavior, cause and effect is always at play, to think otherwise would be the "Naive" point of view. Not to mention that obviously terms like "natural law" etc, are just labels we as humans assign to things in effort to communicate.
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Rules are a creation of humans and a tool used to organize human society. There is no natural law.
 
DNAprotection

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Rules are a creation of humans and a tool used to organize human society. There is no natural law.
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You are clearly obsessed with words to the point that they no longer have meaning.
Even an idiot knows you can drop a heavy thing onto your foot, the result will likely be painful.
Aside from the obvious rules of biology concerning the resulting pain, the "law" of gravity, as most humans call it, is the "natural law" at play (also the words most humans use).
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DNAprotection said:
You are clearly obsessed with words to the point that they no longer have meaning.
Even an idiot knows you can drop a heavy thing onto your foot, the result will likely be painful.
Aside from the obvious rules of biology concerning the resulting pain, the "law" of gravity, as most humans call it, is the "natural law" at play (also the words most humans use).
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You are the one who first used "natural law" in this thread.

I have no idea what you are talking about now. There are no "rules of biology". Is that what you mean by "natural law". Yes there is something we call gravity but it's not what you mean when you say "rules of biology".

Too funny that you refer to gravity. Gravity doesn't exist, it is something that people perceive but is not a real thing.
 
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DNAprotection

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
You are the one who first used "natural law" in this thread.

I have no idea what you are talking about now. There are no "rules of biology". Is that what you mean by "natural law". Yes there is something we call gravity but it's not what you mean when you say "rules of biology".

Too funny that you refer to gravity. Gravity doesn't exist, it is something that people perceive but is not a real thing.
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"Gravity doesn't exist", and the world is flat. Ok idiot,
I don't care wtf words you use, the fact remains that there are prevailing realities of nature that exist with or without human constructs. You are clearly so obsessed with your lack of understanding that maybe it's just that words don't mean anything to you now.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
DNAprotection said:
"Gravity doesn't exist", and the world is flat. Ok idiot,
I don't care wtf words you use, the fact remains that there are prevailing realities of nature that exist with or without human constructs. You are clearly so obsessed with your lack of understanding that maybe it's just that words don't mean anything to you now.
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It's true

Newton's law of gravity has been disproven. It's a useful mathematical model but it is not based on reality. Einstein gave us a different way to understand gravity but it seems that his model is just a useful mathematical construct too. Newer physical-computational models for how the universe is put together are beyond me but they are finally combining sub-atomic physics with Einsteinian models in ways that predict amazing possibilities. But we've pretty much moved beyond the idea of "gravitational forces".

The earth is round and we are continually surprised by what biological organisms do including ourselves. Could you please explain what you mean by "realities of nature" without using false concepts?
 
Herb & Suds

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
DNAprotection said:
"Gravity doesn't exist", and the world is flat. Ok idiot,
I don't care wtf words you use, the fact remains that there are prevailing realities of nature that exist with or without human constructs. You are clearly so obsessed with your lack of understanding that maybe it's just that words don't mean anything to you now.
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Name calling ...when you just can't find the RIGHT meme
 
DNAprotection

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Herb & Suds said:
Name calling ...when you just can't find the RIGHT meme
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No not "name calling", just using meaningless words to label things in effort to better communicate.
Definition of idiot
1 : a foolish or stupid person
2 dated, now offensive : a person affected with extreme mental retardation
 
DNAprotection

DNAprotection

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
It's true

Newton's law of gravity has been disproven. It's a useful mathematical model but it is not based on reality. Einstein gave us a different way to understand gravity but it seems that his model is just a useful mathematical construct too. Newer physical-computational models for how the universe is put together are beyond me but they are finally combining sub-atomic physics with Einsteinian models in ways that predict amazing possibilities. But we've pretty much moved beyond the idea of "gravitational forces".

The earth is round and we are continually surprised by what biological organisms do including ourselves. Could you please explain what you mean by "realities of nature" without using false concepts?
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Here on earth there is some kind of physical force at play that keeps things moving towards the ground.
Out in space there is some kind of physical force at play that keeps the things humans call planets spinning in orbit around great balls of fuel. Then that whole ball of wax continues to spin around some even greater physical force that many humans have decided to call a "black hole".
I don't make up the words, I just use the words others have made up and agreed to use in effort to communicate.
The word most people understand as representing the "force" described above is "gravity". Sorry if that offends you.
While the meaning of the word "gravity" may transform along with a better understanding of the nature of it, it is still just a descriptive word that if you choose not to use, you will simply need to make up some other word to take its place in any effort to describe this physical force at play keeping our feet on the ground.
 
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