Howard Dean is scary!!!!!

Unclebuck - lets talk about my post #14 ! Lets talk about how you Liberal democrats are the ones responsible for slavery. I mean as a liberal you can't believe you had anything to do with that do you? What liberal would allow that. I bet I can even prove that liberal Democrats and the KKK go hand in hand in slavery and anti-civil rights ? Let also discuss how the Republican party was founded by all black men. We can research history and how political groups have voted over time on civil right issues.The record of the vote does not lie does it?

All of the above took place do to SOCIAL JUSTICE and liberal democrats.

stewie

I would think that the whole kkk thing and civil rights was more a placation of the southern baptists and votes than anything. It's kind of funny when you think about it, now we liberals are deemed the godless party and if your a biggot today, chances are your voting republican.

As goes god goes the racists?

Yup....

Also, who in their right mind would describe dixiecrats as "liberal democrats"? Jesse helms, strom thurmond etc. were pretty solidly to the right in today's spectrum regardless of their party affiliation at the time....

stewie said:

The founders of our country would have never allowed for Social Justice.....Read history it will set your free.

Click to expand...

how about some agrarian justice, by our founding father thomas paine?

"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property:


And also, the sum of ten pounds per annum, during life, to every person now living, of the age of fifty years, and to all others as they shall arrive at that age."

"It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed."

"Would it not, even as a matter of economy, be far better to adopt means to prevent their becoming poor? This can best be done by making every person when arrived at the age of twenty-one years an inheritor of something to begin with."

thomas paine was CLEARLY a big fan of social justice.

http://mydd.com/users/yodafone/posts/paine-was-a-socialist



ok, but what about our other founding fathers?


"...the Founding Fathers demanded socialism. Section 8 of Article I, for example, empowers Congress “To establish Post Offices and post Roads.” That same Section also authorizes Congress “To raise and support Armies,” and even “To provide and maintain a Navy.”

Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams — among others — all signed this document. They agreed that the new national government would facilitate communication and defense through taxation. They agreed that these essential services would not have to be purchased on the open market. They agreed that these services would not be limited to those who could pay fair market value.

Perhaps the greatest of all of America’s socialized institutions, the Nation’s modern highway system, was begun in 1806 by then-President Jefferson’s authorization of the Cumberland (National) Road. Transportation, too, was deemed to be one of the Nation’s essential services that could not be relegated to private industry.

The Congress did President Jefferson one better. It socialized the great bulk of America’s navigable waterways in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. The founding generation recognized early on that the national government needed the power regulate interstate commerce—this was written into Article I of the 1787 Constitution—and waterways provided the most important channel of commerce. The national government, using this authority, opened America’s internal waterways to commerce. These immense “social” highways proved a boon to entrepreneurial activities (and perhaps saved the Nation).

History teaches us that the Framers were not averse to socialism. They authorized, and sometimes embraced, governmental programs that offered essential services to the masses at low or no cost. Communication, transportation, and defense were what the Founders deemed essential at the end of the eighteenth century. That was their time. They did not call it socialism. They called it good government. "

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2009/10/our-socialist-founding-fathers.php



clearly, they as well had some socialist leanings as well.

glenn beck emits a putrid, std-infested hunk of splooge your way and you gobble it down without question or reservation. just the way he likes it

UncleBuck said:

how about some agrarian justice, by our founding father thomas paine?

"To create a national fund, out of which there shall be paid to every person, when arrived at the age of twenty-one years, the sum of fifteen pounds sterling, as a compensation in part, for the loss of his or her natural inheritance, by the introduction of the system of landed property:


And also, the sum of ten pounds per annum, during life, to every person now living, of the age of fifty years, and to all others as they shall arrive at that age."

"It is only by organizing civilization upon such principles as to act like a system of pulleys, that the whole weight of misery can be removed."

"Would it not, even as a matter of economy, be far better to adopt means to prevent their becoming poor? This can best be done by making every person when arrived at the age of twenty-one years an inheritor of something to begin with."

thomas paine was CLEARLY a big fan of social justice.

http://mydd.com/users/yodafone/posts/paine-was-a-socialist



ok, but what about our other founding fathers?


"...the Founding Fathers demanded socialism. Section 8 of Article I, for example, empowers Congress “To establish Post Offices and post Roads.” That same Section also authorizes Congress “To raise and support Armies,” and even “To provide and maintain a Navy.”

Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and John Adams — among others — all signed this document. They agreed that the new national government would facilitate communication and defense through taxation. They agreed that these essential services would not have to be purchased on the open market. They agreed that these services would not be limited to those who could pay fair market value.

Perhaps the greatest of all of America’s socialized institutions, the Nation’s modern highway system, was begun in 1806 by then-President Jefferson’s authorization of the Cumberland (National) Road. Transportation, too, was deemed to be one of the Nation’s essential services that could not be relegated to private industry.

The Congress did President Jefferson one better. It socialized the great bulk of America’s navigable waterways in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. The founding generation recognized early on that the national government needed the power regulate interstate commerce—this was written into Article I of the 1787 Constitution—and waterways provided the most important channel of commerce. The national government, using this authority, opened America’s internal waterways to commerce. These immense “social” highways proved a boon to entrepreneurial activities (and perhaps saved the Nation).

History teaches us that the Framers were not averse to socialism. They authorized, and sometimes embraced, governmental programs that offered essential services to the masses at low or no cost. Communication, transportation, and defense were what the Founders deemed essential at the end of the eighteenth century. That was their time. They did not call it socialism. They called it good government. "

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2009/10/our-socialist-founding-fathers.php



clearly, they as well had some socialist leanings as well.

glenn beck emits a putrid, std-infested hunk of splooge your way and you gobble it down without question or reservation. just the way he likes it

Click to expand...

Dude you make me laugh...I will give you that.

Have you read what Agrarian Justice is? (ok I know that answer is no ) WE HAVE IT! IT'S CALLED SOCIAL SECURITY!!!!! IT'S BROKE TO! It's the same thing read about it. Also that was written for FRANCE!!

Then you post some quotes on how the founding fathers thought that the Military, highway and Mail and waterways should be public. and they are. So somehow just because they thought that those things should be Government means they were in favor of social justice? That they were in favor of socialism? or had social beliefs ? I look forward to your plan to remove the jobs from Government. We do need them for some things.

If that makes you think they favored socialism then your lack of knowledge in our founding fathers shows.

Your logic is flawed!

If you know so much about the founding fathers and history of the United States then please explain why in 1820 the Democratic congress passed the Missouri Compromise ? This is where the "democratics" made slavery legal again? Where they made slavery legal again for " democratic " gain. The one where they "knew" the had to ignore the principles in the founding documents. Also I would like to hear your thoughts about the 1850 Fugitive Slave Law? This is the law democrats passed to bring slaves back from the northern states. I look forward to your response on this topic.

Oh yea next time you give George Soros a reach around I hope he tips you well after all the money he is making off liberal fools like yourself.


stewie

hanimmal said:

I would think that the whole kkk thing and civil rights was more a placation of the southern baptists and votes than anything. It's kind of funny when you think about it, now we liberals are deemed the godless party and if your a biggot today, chances are your voting republican.

As goes god goes the racists?

Click to expand...

Please post a fact where you can back up the claim that bigot's vote republican? I can post proof liberalism is based off atheism.[FONT=&quot]http://www.fullbooks.com/The-System-of-Nature-Vol-21.html [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
This was written in 1700 by Baron D'Holbach he was a atheist french philosopher ( That should be equal to a god in the liberal world ). Give it a read and you will see the links between atheism, liberalism and environmentalism he says for atheists to be careful. This book explains all of the bullshit liberals puke up and why. After reading this you will understand the powers at play and how liberals use racism, the environment and people against each other. Written in 1700, this is one of if not the starting point of the liberal belief system and the draw backs from the atheist point of view.

I look forward to see the excitement in your posts when you learn how bad the liberal system would really mean to your life.

No, civil rights and kkk has nothing to do with baptists but it has everything to do known Liberals and democrats. Republicans were founded by black men. They party of Abe, the guy who fought a war to free all of man! So I'm not sure why you say they are bigot's. The leaders of the confederacy were Jefferson Davis and Alexander Stephens both democrats. So why are Republicans the racist bigot's? Able Lincoln was a Republican. Google Woodrow Wilson and the KKK. Liberal democrat Woodrow Wilson was a huge supporter of the KKK.

The liberal view point is a flawed point of view!

stewie

stewie said:

Your logic is flawed!

Click to expand...

this argument really got away from you. you are really grasping at straws now...

at post #5, you were arguing...

"As (sic) everyone forgot the principles country was founded on ? In case you have it is Judaeo-Christian."

...as an indictment against social justice. i clearly showed you how verses from the bible itself and the history of the concept of social justice stems from judeo-christian values and religions. social justice is a huge component of catholicism, christianity, and judaism. case closed. no arguing that. so you move on....

by post #20, you tried arguing...

"The founders of our country would have never allowed for Social Justice."

...which i rebutted by showing you the philosophies of thomas paine, thomas jefferson, george washington, james madison, and benjamin franklin (among others). they clearly made allowances for social justice and had socialist ideas.

so by post #25, your argument is reduced to a shell of what it was originally...

"If that makes you think they favored socialism then your lack of knowledge in our founding fathers shows."

...so basically, yes, the founding fathers allowed for social justice but did not favor it. then you continue to push this off topic bs about how some democrats have not favored social justice at times, which i have in no way argued against and which in no way fixes your failed arguments.

clearly, social justice and judeo christian values are deeply intertwined and the founding fathers made allowances for social justice based on their judeo christian philosophies when prudent.

you lose your argument. get over it. go cry into your pillow. your lord and savior glenn beck is twisting facts to hook gullible people like yourself, and it worked.
you might have stood a chance if you were not simply aping another ape.

ink the world said:

True, except one side has an entire "news" network doing the same

Click to expand...

Oh yeah which network would that be? The liberals have MSNBC and the Conservatives have Fox news. I think the propaganda war is fairly equal. Actually the CNN tends to lean more liberal. I think they are all full of crap. They are all Slimy lawyers and a bunch of rich spoiled kids that where groomed to be salesmen I mean politicians. where the hell is the party representing the center?

UncleBuck said:

this argument really got away from you. you are really grasping at straws now...

at post #5, you were arguing...

"As (sic) everyone forgot the principles country was founded on ? In case you have it is Judaeo-Christian."

...as an indictment against social justice. i clearly showed you how verses from the bible itself and the history of the concept of social justice stems from judeo-christian values and religions. social justice is a huge component of catholicism, christianity, and judaism. case closed. no arguing that. so you move on....

by post #20, you tried arguing...

"The founders of our country would have never allowed for Social Justice."

...which i rebutted by showing you the philosophies of thomas paine, thomas jefferson, george washington, james madison, and benjamin franklin (among others). they clearly made allowances for social justice and had socialist ideas.

so by post #25, your argument is reduced to a shell of what it was originally...

"If that makes you think they favored socialism then your lack of knowledge in our founding fathers shows."

...so basically, yes, the founding fathers allowed for social justice but did not favor it. then you continue to push this off topic bs about how some democrats have not favored social justice at times, which i have in no way argued against and which in no way fixes your failed arguments.

clearly, social justice and judeo christian values are deeply intertwined and the founding fathers made allowances for social justice based on their judeo christian philosophies when prudent.

you lose your argument. get over it. go cry into your pillow. your lord and savior glenn beck is twisting facts to hook gullible people like yourself, and it worked.
you might have stood a chance if you were not simply aping another ape.

Click to expand...

Your continued clear ignorance of history and facts is present. Also your continued misguiding use of facts is just plain retard. You, brought the Catholic religion in to this. How is the fucking catholic religion teaching Social justice prove it was meant for "OUR" nation ? Your overwhelming evidence is the catholic religion teaches social justice!

lolololol your a jackass dude get back under your rock, I can't believe you honestly peddle that crap all over this site and get away with it.


stewie

stewie said:

Your continued clear ignorance of history and facts is present. Also your continued misguiding use of facts is just plain retard. You, brought the Catholic religion in to this. How is the fucking catholic religion teaching Social justice prove it was meant for "OUR" nation ? Your overwhelming evidence is the catholic religion teaches social justice!

lolololol your a jackass dude get back under your rock, I can't believe you honestly peddle that crap all over this site and get away with it.


stewie

Click to expand...

i 'get away with it' because i can state my argument without using 4 insults.

i didn't see much of a rebuttal in there.

i guess it's settled then. social justice is part of judeo-christian values, and judeo-christian values are part of our country. thus by transitivity of something being a part of something, social justice is part of our country. QED

and i even did it without using any insults

UncleBuck How's this

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. (The Declaration of Independence)
— John Hancock


You see those two words.....Divine Providence. That is the opposite of social justice. The founding fathers own words sound be more then enough to make it true. Oh and now that your going to refrain from insults so shall I. Your argument is done!

We are a nation built on Divine Providence not Social Justice.

stewie

you must be high as a kite.

divine providence is not the antithesis of social justice. divine providence is nothing more then god's activity in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_providence). i am not entirely convinced that you know what words mean.

now, just for the sake of argument, let's suppose divine providence actually is some sort of antonym for social justice. my argument still remains valid. i am simply arguing that social justice is a part of this nation's values, not the entirety of them. and i have already cited in a clear, linear fashion why this is inarguably true.

now go consult beck and figure out a new angle to try to salvage your pitiful argument.

UncleBuck

If you like founding fathers words here are some more.

This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. Benjamin Franklin



I kind of believe our founding fathers words and history over you.


stewie

stewie said:

This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. Benjamin Franklin

I kind of believe our founding fathers words and history over you.

Click to expand...

and this is a condemnation of social justice how?

ben franklin also founded the library system, fire departments, favored the usps, the military, he never patented the lightning rod citing its social benefits....

so obviously that founding father made allowances for social justice. that is all i am arguing

UncleBuck said:

and this is a condemnation of social justice how?

ben franklin also founded the library system, fire departments, favored the usps, the military, he never patented the lightning rod citing its social benefits....

so obviously that founding father made allowances for social justice. that is all i am arguing

Click to expand...

"so obviously that founding father made allowances for social justice. that is all i am arguing"

Your endless misdirection of the truth and flat out wrong statements are sad. At no point did they make any consideration for Social Justice. Divine Providence is opposite of social justice. Lets me clear some things up about your quote.

( Divine Providence )
God sees all ( equally ) These writings maintain that Divine Providence means that God is directing (or even recreating) every minute detail of creation. This analysis thus underpins much of Orthodox Judaism's world view, particularly as regards questions of interaction with the natural world.

(Social Justice)
The liberal political philosopher John Rawls draws on the utilitarian insights of Bentham and Mill, the social contract ideas of John Locke, and the categorical imperative ideas of Kant. His first statement of principle was made in A Theory of Justice where he proposed that, "Each person possesses an inviolability founded on justice that even the welfare of society as a whole cannot override. For this reason justice denies that the loss of freedom for some is made right by a greater good shared by others."

Yours " social justice" says some men have to carry others who don't want to carry themselves." freedom for some is made right by a greater good shared by other"
Mine " Divine Providence" says God sees all. You will answer to him.

Here is the the link to where your "philosophy"[FONT=&quot]http://www.fullbooks.com/The-System-of-Nature-Vol-21.html[/FONT]

How does the words of your philosophy's father sound. I ask do you really want a Man to control your density ? or do you want control it your self with the help of God?

Even D'Holbach warns atheists about the drawbacks of atheism, like in slaving man. Democrats and Liberals know lot's about that. That is the debate at hand. To which you seem to choose the side of Liberalism and Atheism. Two things our country was not founded on and founding fathers never intended on infecting our government.

This is so fitting!

This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. - Benjamin Franklin


You are wrong. At no time was Social Justice meant to be or should be part of our system. I still look forward to your thoughts about Liberals and Democrats being responsible for slavery. You seem to keep away from this topic. Is it quilt from knowing how your beliefs are responsible for in-slaving black people and all of the civil right abuses. Is it the quilt from the Liberal's Hero Woodrow Wilson who supported the KKK and all the bad that they did? Oh yea the liberal philosophy is directly responsible for slavery. I hope that sits well with you.


How many more times do you want to get owned trying to prove how wrong you are? All my words are fact! Your words are misguided philosophy.

stewie

wow, you are all over the place now. and none of it is a refutation of my thesis that:

"our founding fathers made allowances for social justice"

let's examine your feeble attempts...

At no point did they make any consideration for Social Justice

sorry, fella. they did. explain all the social programs, like the usps, libraries, fire departments, the military and others, that the founding fathers supported for the benefit of all.

Divine Providence is opposite of social justice

ummmm, no. but your justification is an interesting story of self serving bs. let's examine....

God sees all ( equally ) These writings maintain that Divine Providence means that God is directing (or even recreating) every minute detail of creation. This analysis thus underpins much of Orthodox Judaism's world view, particularly as regards questions of interaction with the natural world.

explain tzedakah or tikkun olam. as a jew (not orthodox), i can clearly see that you have no understanding of my religion. look those up and get back to me....you will clearly see that orthodox jews also believe in social justice. dumbass.

Mine " Divine Providence" says God sees all. You will answer to him.

sounds good to me. go ahead and answer to god when you disobey matthew 25:40 --> "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."

D'Holbach warns atheists about the drawbacks of atheism, like in slaving man. Democrats and Liberals know lot's about that. That is the debate at hand.

your grammar is atrocious. "enslaving", not "in slaving"...and "lots"....not "lot's". it is not possessive, genius. this alone makes me doubt any words you say...your inability to comprehend the language you speak.

but more to the point, that IS NOT the debate at hand. the debate i am having is whether or not out founding fathers allowed some social justice concepts...and they clearly did. you have not even tried to disprove that. you have gone off on silly tangents, like 'divine providence' and trying to pigeonhole liberals as responsible for slavery. debate honestly if you are going to debate.

At no time was Social Justice meant to be or should be part of our system

that must explain why one of our founding fathers, benjamin franklin, chose NOT to patent the lightning rod, citing its benefits to the society as a whole. that must explain why thomas paine called for VERY socialist policies. your repeated assertion gets more laughable everytime you say it.

Is it quilt from knowing how your beliefs are responsible for in-slaving black people and all of the civil right abuses. Is it the quilt from the Liberal's Hero Woodrow Wilson who supported the KKK and all the bad that they did?

quilt? hahahahahahahahahaahahahhahahahaha.

you are trying to move away from what social justice REALLY means in favor of demonizing current day liberals. nice try, but your argument is transparent and self serving. current day liberals like myself are the ones pushing for civil rights, social issues, and the like....based on the ideals of social justice. current day repubs and baggers are the ones pushing for repeal of civil rights (rand paul), the repeal of the 14th amendment, and so on.

hahahahahahahah.....quilt. is english your native language?

i will say it again: social justice are part of judeo-christian values, and judeo-christian values are part of our country since the time of our founding fathers. thus, by transitivity, social justice is part of our country since the time of our founding fathers.

QED.

keep wasting your breath trying to say our founding fathers had absolutely no interest in social justice. you make me laugh

let me put this a way you might understand:

did the founding fathers allow for social justice concepts: clearly YES

was social justice their overriding philosophy: clearly NO

hope that helps. tell me how that quilt turns out

UncleBuck said:

let me put this a way you might understand:

did the founding fathers allow for social justice concepts: clearly YES

was social justice their overriding philosophy: clearly NO

hope that helps. tell me how that quilt turns out

Click to expand...

Once again you expect people to believe you based off your word? Your information as been shown to be all wrong and present with your liberal lack of knowledge and any sound logic. If you went to collage your professors sure did not change you!

Your continued ignorance of this topic shows 1 or 2 things. 1) Your education lacks and you should think about suing some teachers for your misguided beliefs or 2 ) you are a Liberal / Environmental / Atheist as D'Holbach explains in the link to The System of Nature and only care to disrupt our way of life for the advancement of a failed philosophy .

At no time was Social Justice meant to be or should be part of our system.

I still look forward to your thoughts about Liberals and Democrats being responsible for slavery. You seem to keep away from this topic. Is it quilt from knowing how your beliefs are responsible for in-slaving black people and all of the civil right abuses. Is it the quilt from the Liberal's Hero Woodrow Wilson who supported the KKK and all the bad that they did?

Let me explain it in simple terms so you can understand. You think your personal thoughts trump that of historical fact. Once again you think with flawed logic.

If knowledge is power, ignorance will only make you in-slaved to your master!

stewie

stewie said:

If you went to collage your professors sure did not change you! Your education lacks and you should think about suing some teachers

Click to expand...

maybe you are the one who should be suing.

stewie said:

At no time was Social Justice meant to be or should be part of our system.

Click to expand...

i've already explained to you how the founding fathers worked social justice directly into our founding documents. you can't refute the usps, the military, libraries, fire departments, the writings of thomas paine, the fact that benjamin franklin did not patent the lightning rod citing its social benefits....this is beating a dead horse by now.

stewie said:

I still look forward to your thoughts about Liberals and Democrats being responsible for slavery. You seem to keep away from this topic. Is it quilt from knowing how your beliefs are responsible for in-slaving black people and all of the civil right abuses.

Click to expand...

i do not care about this because it is no way relevant to the discussion. the only thing i have argued was that the founding fathers allowed for social justice when prudent. i am convinced by now you have no idea how to read or spell, as i have stated this numerous times.

you clearly do not care about my narrow argument. you are simply trying to push glenn beck talking points and do not have an original thought in your head. as further proof of this, i clicked on the wallbuilders.com link in your profile....no big surprise....the first ad was for his dumbass rally and the second ad was 'as seen on glenn beck'.

it is people like you, the ones who distort what the founding fathers truly said, that need to be reminded that your personal thoughts do not trump historical fact. you can take few select words from our fathers and twist them any old which way, but you can not refute my very narrow argument that they allowed for social justice in some ways.

i am done arguing with a person who does not know how to spell guilt, enslave, or college. you haven't even come close to disproving my argument, but i have destroyed yours. now we are just going in circles. have fun watching beck today.

UncleBuck said:

maybe you are the one who should be suing.



i've already explained to you how the founding fathers worked social justice directly into our founding documents. you can't refute the usps, the military, libraries, fire departments, the writings of thomas paine, the fact that benjamin franklin did not patent the lightning rod citing its social benefits....this is beating a dead horse by now.



i do not care about this because it is no way relevant to the discussion. the only thing i have argued was that the founding fathers allowed for social justice when prudent. i am convinced by now you have no idea how to read or spell, as i have stated this numerous times.

you clearly do not care about my narrow argument. you are simply trying to push glenn beck talking points and do not have an original thought in your head. as further proof of this, i clicked on the wallbuilders.com link in your profile....no big surprise....the first ad was for his dumbass rally and the second ad was 'as seen on glenn beck'.

it is people like you, the ones who distort what the founding fathers truly said, that need to be reminded that your personal thoughts do not trump historical fact. you can take few select words from our fathers and twist them any old which way, but you can not refute my very narrow argument that they allowed for social justice in some ways.

i am done arguing with a person who does not know how to spell guilt, enslave, or college. you haven't even come close to disproving my argument, but i have destroyed yours. now we are just going in circles. have fun watching beck today.

Click to expand...

Oh I found where YOUR confused. Hopefully this will clear everything up in YOUR head.

The foundering fathers did not have any notion of having any type of SOCIAL JUSTICE into our system. The word SOCIAL is not SOCIAL JUSTICE. I'm sure you must have just forgot that SOCIAL JUSTICE is a compound word. Compound words have meanings to. Maybe you forgot or ?

You say social justice has nothing to do with the discussion when in FACT it is the discussion.

i do not care about this because it is no way relevant to the discussion.

Click to expand...

YOU have just told so many lies, you have lost sight.

Any logical person can review this and check my facts and logic against yours and clearly see you are the ignorant pupil.

You choose to resort to belittlement and some how discredit me because of a site that I highly recommended to all. So we are clear, we are talking a site that has books that have appendix's that you can reference to check the literature. A site that sells books full of history. You would know about these things if you had ever had then need. From your lack of knowledge over this discussion it clearly shows me you have never had the need.

Once again your flawed liberal philosophical views cloud your logic as well as your sense of reasoning. That is FACT!

stewie