How do I get to heaven? Answers to your questions on eternal life.

trueg115

trueg115

Well-Known Member
But Pharaoh again became stubborn and refused to let the people go. Exodus 8 32

And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, that he shall follow after them; and I will be honored upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host; that the Egyptians may know that I am the LORD. Exodus 14

As you can see, both hardened pharaohs heart. God chose Pharaoh for that position because Pharaoh was as stiubborn and conceited as he was. Therefore, for the Lords purpose, to exalt his name, he placed Pharaoh there and Pharaoh chose to see the signs and chose to submit not to God but his own power. God has foreknowledge therefor he knew Pharaoh was the man to use for his glory. Pharaoh was given many chances but for the Lord purpose to prevail and because Pharaoh would never have accepted, he destroyed him and all his household, as a sign that will come upon the Lords enemies when he makes his return. That destruction will be far worse. This example serves as what is coming upon the unbelievers. But mark my words, before this day comes, many signs and wonders wil be shown to the people of this world and even then they will not accept Christ.

He WILL prove himself through the church.
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
OldGrowth420 said:
Some of this is an outright lie such as the woute about Judges 11:30-40 which reads [SUP]30 [/SUP]And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, [SUP]31 [/SUP]whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.” [SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. [SUP]33 [/SUP]He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. [SUP]35 [/SUP]When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord. Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. [SUP]37 [/SUP]But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
[SUP]38 [/SUP]“You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. [SUP]39 [/SUP]After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From this comes the Israelite tradition [SUP]40 [/SUP]that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

First of all the LORD did not command Jephthah to do anything, and no one was burnt alive.

It is extremely important to God that we honor our father and mother and the Law was extreme before Christ came and fullfilled the Law. We no longer have to abide by any old testament rules including the ten commandments, so your point is void of any merit.
Back when times were wild, and people were more uncivilized it was important to pose harsh punishment for sinful conduct to keep people form doing these things.

They had to impose these strict rules just to keep order among the civilization from generation to generation.
They didn't have the Holy Spirit in them helping them to lead moral orderly lives so it was necessary to impose these strict laws to keep God's Children from straying from God's commandments.
For instance, a bad rebellious group could cause an entire people to be lead astray away from God, in order to keep the Law and ways and knowledge of God through the generations it was necessary to impose these strict laws.

God killed all of the first born of Egypt because the LORD had imposed many plagues upon the Egyptian and Pharaoh still refused to let the Hebrews go. There was simply no other way to sway Pharaoh's opinion.

I will answer more later.
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And.... no.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus didn't come to destroy the old laws, 10 commandments, etc. he came to see them through.

10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

More great "jesus stuff". He's not here to bring peace, guy came with a sword.


Jesus? is that you?
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Lets see what Mark has to say;

6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Accept jesus, or he will fuck you up worse than his big pappa did to Sodom and Gommorrha.

5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Jesus heals a crippled beggar and says that being cripppled was caused by sin.

ROMANS
1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So, gossips, gays, boasters, and disobedient children are worthy of death. How are you still alive Oldgrowth? Didn't you ever disobey your parents?
 
trueg115

trueg115

Well-Known Member
He is still alive because the Lord is loving to all he has made and kind to all of his creation. He sends rain on the just and the unjust. Jesus did not come to save the righteous but rather sinners, or the sick. He came to make the blind see and those who "see" become blind.

And yes, all those things you listed are worthy of eternal punishment because of our sin with our God. But through Jesus Christs atonement on the cross, we are forgiven and can receive the Holy Spirit and be changed forever by being born again. You can too through faith in Jesus blood.

All men are sinners, we are born in sin, whether we follow a religion or not is not what makes us clean. Jesus Christs death and resurrection on the cross is what makes our hearts clean so we can be good through faith in his blood. We cannot be peaceful without Christ, for we are enemies of God and enemies to one another. It matters not whether we profess any religion or congregation or what not, or if you are an atheist. All that matters is belief upon the Lord Jesus Christ and following his teachings and His word so that we may come to know him to have eternal life. The reason why I say we are enemies of God and of men, is that because of our sinful natures, our heart is the problem, for out of it comes all evil. Without Jesus Christs promise of the Holy Spirit, we cannot get out of our sin but through Jesus we can be born again and be given a new heart.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be made known to them is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible properties - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-19
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Religion is fond of stealing the sense of wonder we get from some things in life and claiming as its own. The sense of awe we feel looking into the night sky. The sense of astonishment felt when we realize the enormous sophistication of nature. Even the sense of "oneness" we feel from transcendent experiences. Some people feel these things when listening to beautiful music, and religion is there to cash in on this as well.

[video=youtube_share;pghCq_Vnze0]http://youtu.be/pghCq_Vnze0[/video]
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
Religion is fond of stealing the sense of wonder we get from some things in life and claiming as its own. The sense of awe we feel looking into the night sky. The sense of astonishment felt when we realize the enormous sophistication of nature. Even the sense of "oneness" we feel from transcendent experiences. Some people feel these things when listening to beautiful music, and religion is there to cash in on this as well.
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That's good insight, Heis. I've read that the catholic church was very shrewd in this regard, commissioning works from the greatest known artists of the time (i.e. the genius music of Handel and Bach, the amazing sculpture and graphic art from Da Vinci, Michelangelo, etc.). The idea was to pull a non-sequitur ruse on people: folks come to the church and hear this amazing music and witness this amazing art work. They can readily sense the very real quality of these creations and figure that the church's teachings must be of the same quality. Brilliant...
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
trueg115 said:
He is still alive because the Lord is loving to all he has made and kind to all of his creation. He sends rain on the just and the unjust. Jesus did not come to save the righteous but rather sinners, or the sick. He came to make the blind see and those who "see" become blind.

And yes, all those things you listed are worthy of eternal punishment because of our sin with our God. But through Jesus Christs atonement on the cross, we are forgiven and can receive the Holy Spirit and be changed forever by being born again. You can too through faith in Jesus blood.

All men are sinners, we are born in sin, whether we follow a religion or not is not what makes us clean. Jesus Christs death and resurrection on the cross is what makes our hearts clean so we can be good through faith in his blood. We cannot be peaceful without Christ, for we are enemies of God and enemies to one another. It matters not whether we profess any religion or congregation or what not, or if you are an atheist. All that matters is belief upon the Lord Jesus Christ and following his teachings and His word so that we may come to know him to have eternal life. The reason why I say we are enemies of God and of men, is that because of our sinful natures, our heart is the problem, for out of it comes all evil. Without Jesus Christs promise of the Holy Spirit, we cannot get out of our sin but through Jesus we can be born again and be given a new heart.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be made known to them is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible properties - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-19
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Being born handicapped does not mean god is angry at you for some sin you haven't even committed.

God created us as his enemies? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

God's power and divine nature have never been seen. Period. Being powerful assumes you are capable of doing somthing, and to this day, no one has ever seen a real miracle happen.

God has never brought someone back from the dead, or grown back a limb. If god's power is limited to healing things that might have healed on their own, why refer to him as god? Clearly he doesn't possess any powers or abilities.
 
NietzscheKeen

NietzscheKeen

Well-Known Member
But Trueg, isn't there a kinder gentler way for a supreme being to go about it? It seems like his plan for redemption is rather inefficient and absurd. I understand the doctrine of "there had to be a sacrifice in order to cover the sins of the world and jesus was the ultimate (in the literal sense) sacrifice", but why would a loving caring god create a system of scapegoating, death and suffering? Why not leave the innocents out of it and allow us as humans to do something more simple to atone for our sins? He certainly doesn't make things very easy for us; I wanted to know him and his will and searched for 17 years; a search so sincere and dedicated that I neglected everything else in my life. I still never found him.

You'll say he killed his own son because he loved us so much... couldn't he have done it another way; He IS God afterall.
If he can leave me, Mother Teresa, and others hanging like that when we are searching, calling out for him to make his presence known in our lives.
If he can commit genocide and all the other atrocities that Christians often rationalize or are morally numb to, then he is not someone I'd want to worship anyway. If he does exist, when I get there I will ask him why he wouldn't help me out when I was trying to know him and learn his will; a just god indeed; send me to burn for all eternity when I was trying, you're the one that gave me a rational brain.

Beef made me think of this. I did find one thing that was interesting when I was preparing for seminary. I believe it is in John 9, I will have to look up the verse. I've pretty much wiped all my Bible knowledge from my brain, so forgive me if I don't get the story exactly right. It's regarding reincarnation and karma. Jesus and his disciples were walking down the street and pass a man blind deaf from birth, lame on the side of the street. One of the disciples asks, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?" Jesus answered, "It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him." Now this might be kind of a reach, but many people believe the disciples understood "doctrine" better than we ever could. The disciple asked was it his sins that he should be born blind? as in sins BEFORE he was born.
All other times, through out the gospels, that a disciple said something ridiculous, Jesus corrected him. If you notice, he did not correct him here which leads me to think that there MAY BE something before we were born into this life, at least according to the Bible.

Now one of the questions I had growing up was "why does Crystal have cerebral palsy and all of us were born just fine?" The answers I always got was similar to the one Jesus gave, "it's all part of his plan", "We will just have to ask him when we meet him", and so on. If someone had said, well it was because of the sins she had commited before she was born, then it might have seemed more just and made a little more sense.

And to make a comment on Heis's post, I think that is why so many people are drawn to Catholocism, it has strict rituals (which we like as humans) and fantastic architecture which gives a sense of authority to it all, it is all so massive and spectacular which brings a feeling of awe that is often mistaken for the spirit, it brings out emotion with all the wine, incense, candles, chants, secret underwear and scapulars, ancient languages that have humans have been programmed to associate with the divine. Ever watch a Benny Hinn concert? Listen to the music and his speech pattern... it's pure hypnotism; 100%.

See Stendhal Syndrome
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit said:
Being born handicapped does not mean god is angry at you for some sin you haven't even committed.

God created us as his enemies? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

God's power and divine nature have never been seen. Period. Being powerful assumes you are capable of doing somthing, and to this day, no one has ever seen a real miracle happen.

God has never brought someone back from the dead, or grown back a limb. If god's power is limited to healing things that might have healed on their own, why refer to him as god? Clearly he doesn't possess any powers or abilities.
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Oh, no! I sense of huge load of hot, frothy scripture comin' soon as a reply. Get your umbrellas ready if you don't want to get any on you, it's gonna be a lot...
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Oh, no! I sense of huge load of hot, frothy scripture comin' soon as a reply. Get your umbrellas ready if you don't want to get any on you, it's gonna be a lot...
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Nah bro - I'll save him the trouble of responding.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/ - There, that covers the scripture portion. Now for the rambling;

Hurble burble bible. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus..... holy spirit, Soddom and Gomorrah, blah, blah, Jesus. You're going to hell. God kills the wicked, blah blah sinners.

God loves you.


How'd I do? :D
 
S

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
NietzscheKeen said:
Here is an interesting article about how "spiritual" people are more likely to commit crimes than atheists.

http://socialreader.com/me/content/U7DL4?chid=75450&utm_source=editorial&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=srfan
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And why do you think that is?..i've noticed this long ago..it's always the bible beater/GOP type/church going delusional..that commits the MOST heinous crimes.

Perhaps Old Growth can explain this to us "sinners"..um and NO scripture please..your own words..do you dare?
 
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