How do I get to heaven? Answers to your questions on eternal life.

Dr Kynes said:

it likely has NO function in the "soul" since religions almost invariably forbid anything that triggers a dopamine dump (i.e. fun)

Click to expand...

...wait, didn't we exchange a little on the Buddha / Christ being opposing thumbs thing? Liberation from opposing forces means that no fun is needed. Dharma was the issue, still is.

..."likely" is to science what "I believe without proof" is to theists, DK.

Dr Kynes said:

"some say" when you mean Rene Descartes, it's better to SAY Rene Descartes, rather than appear to be repeating some shit your cousin's girlfriend's brother's college room-mate said, fourth hand.

since Rene Descartes is the only real scientist of note to make the claim that the pineal is associated with religious or theological nonsense, and such twaddle is utterly rejected by even a cursory examination of neurobiology, one would think simply mentioning Descartes by name would lend some MUCH NEEDED "gravitas" to your statement, since the only other members of the "Some Say" club who hold the opinion you are repeating are daft twats selling magical healing crystals and get rich quick schemes.

"some say" and "some would argue" are the weaseliest of the weasel words, invoking un-named sources, hearsay and rumour in an attempt to manufacture a bandwagon fallacy where even the existence of the Bandwagon is fallacious.

"some say" is even less convincing that "the word on the street" and "common knowledge". "some say" is usually followed by the kind of well reasoned argument that is discussed in the The Honeycomb Hideout between segments of The Smurfs on Saturday morning.

Edit: and just for clarification, im not hating on you or your views, you just use the weasel words A LOT, and that is a burr under my saddle.
kinda like when somebody says "Nookyular".

You Must Be At Least THIS HOT :




to say "Nookyular" around me without getting sharply corrected.

Click to expand...

...still didn't answer the consciousness question. Who cares who's hot (oh dear, a coincidental "hub-hub-hub" there)

Dr Kynes said:

and "some say" the seat of "consciousness" resides in the heart

Click to expand...

...but is combined with mind. Wisdom Heart, or, Bodhisattva. How do I get to heaven? Use your consciousness to help others raise there own. Very simple. Little sarcasm (countenance) required. Maximum effort, though.

eye exaggerate said:

...wait, didn't we exchange a little on the Buddha / Christ being opposing thumbs thing? Liberation from opposing forces means that no fun is needed. Dharma was the issue, still is.

..."likely" is to science what "I believe without proof" is to theists, DK.

Click to expand...

no, i have never discussed jesus as being anything more useful than a doorstop, much less the invaluable thumb

buddha is in my estimation a far less dangerous and capricious religious figure, and his common ground with christianity is negligible.


Likely to rational people means " evidence points that way", for example:

if you see moss growing on one side of a tree that is a LIKELY indication that that side of the tree faces north. it is not CERTAIN but it's likely.

"I beleive without proof" means : "I accept your statements uncritically, tell me more master." example: the entire thread on "crystal power" or the one opposing GMO's

eye exaggerate said:

...still didn't answer the consciousness question. Who cares who's hot (oh dear, a coincidental "hub-hub-hub" there)

Click to expand...

i was unaware that there WAS a consciousness question. i am not a cartesian navel gazer nor am i an abrahamic religious devotee and thus i can safely place this kind of sophist dilemma in the same box i keep my fear of damnation, concern over other people's opinion of me, and all the fucks i give about people who blow off their own hands playing with blasting caps.

in my opinion, conciousness is, as i stated earlier, an endlessly recursive attempt by complex brains to understand the world around them, and eventually themselves until the ponderer achieves awareness of the simple and undeniable fact of awareness. then he will spend the next 20,000 years' free time wondering when exactly did he actually become aware, was it when he realized that he was aware, or was his awareness extant before he discovered that he was wondering if he was aware.

unless he is a philosophy major, and then he will Muse Professionally, full time.

Dr Kynes said:

"I beleive without proof" means : "I accept your statements uncritically, tell me more master." example: the entire thread on "crystal power" or the one opposing GMO's

Click to expand...

I just read through that grow-better-plants-with-crystals thread in the science section, and had to look twice that I wasn't in T&T. What's going on in that subforum, anyway? There should be at least a cursory I.Q. test to gain access...

eye exaggerate said:

...but is combined with mind. Wisdom Heart, or, Bodhisattva. How do I get to heaven? Use your consciousness to help others raise there own. Very simple. Little sarcasm (countenance) required. Maximum effort, though.

Click to expand...

opinion masquerading as fact.

the heart is a muscle which pumps blood through the body, under the direction of the most primitive parts of the brain. the same part of the brain that controls the sexual response, adrenal response (fight or flight) anger fear rage terror and love.

if thats where your god lives then your god is a petty, horny, fearful, lazy, angry little troll with a predilection for addictive substances.

my gods reside in the higher functions, those not found in lower animals.

tyler.durden said:

I just read through that grow-better-plants-with-crystals thread in the science section, and had to look twice that I wasn't in T&T. What's going on in that subforum, anyway? There should be at least a cursory I.Q. test to gain access...

Click to expand...

for real lulz read the "GMO cannabis" thread. it has more unfounded statements of non-fact per square meter than the vatican archives.

Not sure if this was mentioned.
[video=youtube;kYvOsnhV6ZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvOsnhV6ZY[/video]

tyler.durden said:

I just read through that grow-better-plants-with-crystals thread in the science section, and had to look twice that I wasn't in T&T. What's going on in that subforum, anyway? There should be at least a cursory I.Q. test to gain access...

Click to expand...

I requested the thread be moved there from the advanced growing section so that actual knowledgeable people would have a look at it.

Heisenberg said:

I requested the thread be moved there from the advanced growing section so that actual knowledgeable people would have a look at it.

Click to expand...

"Crystals" indeed.

everybody knows its MAGNETS and Structured Water that makes plants grow.

Heisenberg said:

I requested the thread be moved there from the advanced growing section so that actual knowledgeable people would have a look at it.

Click to expand...

Heis, you mischievous puppet master! Way to stir things up

...Tyler, Heis, you can keep your shells, Thanks!

Dr Kynes said:

i was unaware that there WAS a consciousness question. i am not a cartesian navel gazer nor am i an abrahamic religious devotee and thus i can safely place this kind of sophist dilemma in the same box i keep my fear of damnation, concern over other people's opinion of me, and all the fucks i give about people who blow off their own hands playing with blasting caps.

in my opinion, conciousness is, as i stated earlier, an endlessly recursive attempt by complex brains to understand the world around them, and eventually themselves until the ponderer achieves awareness of the simple and undeniable fact of awareness. then he will spend the next 20,000 years' free time wondering when exactly did he actually become aware, was it when he realized that he was aware, or was his awareness extant before he discovered that he was wondering if he was aware.

unless he is a philosophy major, and then he will Muse Professionally, full time.

Click to expand...

...the work I've done was not with philosophy majors, I admit. It looked instead like a setting with actual doctors (interdisciplinary). Those were the ones that accepted my petty ignorance and acknowledged my work.

...the opposing thumb was something I understood as coming from an abbott via a gnostic instructor. Whoa, they were interacting in a mutually positive way. Let's say they complemented each other, go 'finger'. They agreed, plain and simple.

...philosophy does not have the answer, nor science, nor outward religion, and neither does art on its own. A combination of those things, which is something I see when I look at nature, is balanced enough to sustain a person's well being.

...if by crystals you guys are referencing the diamond path, Vajrayana, then sure "mystical crystals".

Dr Kynes said:

in my opinion, conciousness is, as i stated earlier, an endlessly recursive attempt by complex brains to understand the world around them, and eventually themselves until the ponderer achieves awareness of the simple and undeniable fact of awareness.

Click to expand...

...thank you! What a clean statement. Very lizard free.

...how would consciousness evolve beyond the passing of the body if all it can do is become aware of its vehicle? Maybe there's something about evolution that I am not grasping.

eye exaggerate said:

...the work I've done was not with philosophy majors, I admit. It looked instead like a setting with actual doctors (interdisciplinary). Those were the ones that accepted my petty ignorance and acknowledged my work.

Click to expand...

what "work" was this? and are you using "work" as a euphemism for metaphysical musing or actual labours which produce visible results

eye exaggerate said:

...the opposing thumb was something I understood as coming from an abbott via a gnostic instructor. Whoa, they were interacting in a mutually positive way. Let's say they complemented each other, go 'finger'. They agreed, plain and simple.

Click to expand...

an abbot of what? which religion? which order? which monastery?

a "gnostic" as in "new age gnosticism" which is poretty much just word salad madlibs and profound sounding quips, or the jewish apologist/christian sect that was eliminated around 200 AD as heretics ?

eye exaggerate said:

...philosophy does not have the answer, nor science, nor outward religion, and neither does art on its own. A combination of those things, which is something I see when I look at nature, is balanced enough to sustain a person's well being.

Click to expand...

philosophy never answers question it only asks them socratic style. leaving the listener to ponder. science likewise is more in the business of asking questions than providing answers. only religion and politics have the Chutzpah to make claims of definitive answers and demannnd action on their claims.

eye exaggerate said:

...if by crystals you guys are referencing the diamond path, Vajrayana, then sure "mystical crystals".

Click to expand...

and no, not metaphorical crystals or the names of minerals used as adjectives in proper names for metaphysical mummery. ordinary "crystals" like salt quartz and sugar accretions, and even other shit wich is not even aa "crystal" but gets sold as one by the adherents, like leaded glass.


seriously bro, im not trying to rag on you, but i grew up with a dickhead who claimed he was psychic, had magical crystal based healing powers and claimed he was a "warrior of light"

he would often regale his captive audience with his tales of psychic battles, glorious miracles which we (the uninitiated) could never experience and the wonders he had seen in the many-fold dimensions denied mere 3-D creatures like myself.
and he used a lot of the same tropes and phrases you use, and often engaged in the same high flown hyperbolic (but still hedged by weasel words) rhetoric used by hucksters from david icke to deepak choprah. you flirt with that kind of gabble a lot, even if you dont recognize it.

despite his mad claims, inane rants and wild tales of daring do, in fact he was just a dickhead with Munchhausen Syndrome and a serious case of "borderline personality disorder".

by being more clear, and less nebulous in your statements perhaps you might convey more information with fewer ellipses'

Dr Kynes said:

seriously bro, im not trying to rag on you, but i grew up with a dickhead who claimed he was psychic, had magical crystal based healing powers and claimed he was a "warrior of light"

Click to expand...

...I'll address some of the other points (to the best of my current ability) in a bit.

...please, don't put me in that place. The closest thing to psychic I'd talk about is related to being born as a psychic being, raised a spiritual one. Psychic(sm) as it pertains to psyche only. I'm not wanting to interact at dck level, either.

eye exaggerate said:

...thank you! What a clean statement. Very lizard free.

...how would consciousness evolve beyond the passing of the body if all it can do is become aware of its vehicle? Maybe there's something about evolution that I am not grasping.

Click to expand...

you presume consciousness beyond the physical brain.

the "soul" i presume?

thats entirely a metaphysical construct unprovable by science, and thus a question for philosophers theologians and religious figures who's faiths require such a construct for their magic book and dire threats to have any power over the rubes.

the "soul" as christians/jews/moslems describe it has little bearing on the spirit as used in other faiths like taoism, buddhism, ancestral worship, animism, hinduism, or in fact any "reduced dogma" religion, including my own.

evolution likewise does not support a christian/jew/moslem style persistent "soul" existing beyond the physical being, since such a feature is not a survival trait in any biology i am familiar with.

likewise, if the "soul" is assumed, then survival of the "soul" would be of paramount interest to the organism, and physical forms would be disposable commodities shaped by the needs of the "soul" rather than complex machines designed to self replicate.

under such a condition, we would logically expect a more flatworm type creature, something which simply duplicates itself when the old body becomes shop-worn or soiled, not an endless re-creation of new organisms with distinctive features and unique traits requiring the "soul" to spend about 12 years re-learning basic shit like walking, shitting and masturbation before it is ready to strike out in search of new action.

getting used to a new body and learning to walk, and figuring out how not to crap on one-self would seem to be pretty wasteful if the "soul" could simply recycle itself into a new duplicate body.

i mean just from an efficiency standpoint, why bother with the minor, major, and sometimes debilitating side effects of sexual reproduction and the genetic crapshoot? budding out a new body and leaving the old one behind would be aces.

this current shit is pretty lame.

eye exaggerate said:

...I'll address some of the other points (to the best of my current ability) in a bit.

...please, don't put me in that place. The closest thing to psychic I'd talk about is related to being born as a psychic being, raised a spiritual one. Psychic(sm) as it pertains to psyche only. I'm not wanting to interact at dck level, either.

Click to expand...

im not sayin your a nutbar munchhausen loon with a rampant need for self aggrandizing bullshit.

you just occasionally use the same rhetorical style as the loon in question. ]

that just gets my hackles up. like people who say nookyular. once somebody throws out the Nookyular bomb everything else they say becomes shrouded in doubt as to their competence.

likewise when somebody throws out the trope: "judges sit on a bench, bench in french is Bank, and Banks control the currency, but rivers also have Banks, which also control the current... see (insert smug grin here) and the Current, see flows to the ocean, and ships are commanded by admirals, and admirals fly gold fringed flags, and gold fringed flags are found hanging behind judges so our courts are under the Law of the Sea..."

then i automatically assume (and rightly so) that the speaker needs to get locked in a rubber room, or punched in the face.

you often throw out similar vague sounding word salad tropes which leave me feeling like you just tried to slip your hand into my underpants.

for example:

eye exaggerate said:

You have energy and matter as parts of your composition.

You can choose do what you will (relatively) with your energy and matter by way of your consciousness.

Energy and matter are the same.

Consciousness directs the latter.

The brain contains consciousness, and is not consciousness itself.

If what we see in the universe (any closed system, including the body) is exchanges of energy, what role is consciousness playing? If energy cannot be created or destroyed, then what about consciousness?

Click to expand...

\

this made my skin crawl, like the sly grin of a pederast priest, or the knowing smugness of a stalinist agitator who just convinced a bunch of college students that socialism isnt authoritarian...

Dr Kynes said:

im not sayin your a nutbar munchhausen loon with a rampant need for self aggrandizing bullshit.

you just occasionally use the same rhetorical style as the loon in question. ]

that just gets my hackles up. like people who say nookyular. once somebody throws out the Nookyular bomb everything else they say becomes shrouded in doubt as to their competence.

likewise when somebody throws out the trope: "judges sit on a bench, bench in french is Bank, and Banks control the currency, but rivers also have Banks, which also control the current... see (insert smug grin here) and the Current, see flows to the ocean, and ships are commanded by admirals, and admirals fly gold fringed flags, and gold fringed flags are found hanging behind judges so our courts are under the Law of the Sea..."

then i automatically assume (and rightly so) that the speaker needs to get locked in a rubber room, or punched in the face.

you often throw out similar vague sounding word salad tropes which leave me feeling like you just tried to slip your hand into my underpants.

for example:

\

this made my skin crawl, like the sly grin of a pederast priest, or the knowing smugness of a stalinist agitator who just convinced a bunch of college students that socialism isnt authoritarian...

Click to expand...

...ha! I admit all kinds of wrong...nothing agitator here other than when agitated. Hence the need for the Dharma, for me.

...so you got to flow which is The Dharma. Banks? I make pretty symbols out of concepts, etc, no need for banks

...Priests were the initial guards of knowledge. A cursory glance at academia will expose that. Unless those schools have somehow become irrelevant. Back to shamanism goes the guard of knowledge. They were the 'priests' of the tribe.

...no song and dance, here, though. Really, nothing but an honest attempt at reducing density. Oops, I hope you don't hate that last bit